List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[Gavinmitchell11]

The idea of getting Shiel is that the Bombers can offer Gresham more money to trigger higher compensation - 1st round pick.
So Shiel doesn’t even have to play a game for us and we still benefit. We can pay Shiel because we don’t have anyone else to spend the money on at this stage.
The benefit for the Bombers is they dump the salary because they’re in the midst of their overpaying average performers phase.
The Saints aren’t trading a pick of any significance. Despite what Bomber fans think. It’s a smart, outside the box, arrangement if it is allowed.

 

[snails13]

If I was a gun I’d come , bring a few mates and win it and create history. Maybe kids of today don’t think that way .

If you were a fun FA with a premiership or two you would consider it surely

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The idea of getting Shiel is that the Bombers can offer Gresham more money to trigger higher compensation - 1st round pick.
So Shiel doesn’t even have to play a game for us and we still benefit. We can pay Shiel because we don’t have anyone else to spend the money on at this stage.
The benefit for the Bombers is they dump the salary because they’re in the midst of their overpaying average performers phase.
The Saints aren’t trading a pick of any significance. Despite what Bomber fans think. It’s a smart, outside the box, arrangement if it is allowed.

A trade can't be formally attached to a free agency move, so it relies on "trust".
Therefore its just one of those stupid things that gets dreamed up each trade season.
Up there with hypothetical 5 way deals.

 

[ScrappyDo]

A track record that means absolutely zero as the men who made those decisions have been moved on long ago.


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I was going to say this, but then l realized life is too short.

 

[gringo2011]

What's really funny is that last year the Hawks had the worst midfield in the league and they just got rid of their two best mids, one of them a brownlow medalist, for a hand full of beans a Sunny Boy and a packet of Twisties the media went apeshit. OK Mitchell got two third round picks from Collingwood and Cooper Stephens from Geelong. Omeara got them a future second and Lloyd Meek from Freo. And the Hawks midfield got better.

I'm not suggesting we trade out Steele, Crouch or even Seb. I'm saying we should be happy to let go of two mids that aren't our best and if people are willing to pay for them, boner! Getting better than a second rounder for Gresh is a miracle that we should embrace and any second for Clark, just sign the papers before the other teams work out what they've done.

They had accumulated a whole lot already. Getting Newcombe who looks Brownlow quality for free helps too.

You can't make them appear from nowhere. We just haven't drafted any. Bytel and Connolly was our depth and we probably lose Gresham.

At the moment we are Steele, Ross, Crouch and hoping the kids can jump up and take over despite only Windhager being the type that looks pure mid. Dow is a proper mid and Henry adds to the outside squad I guess.

To me it looks like the midfield depth will be a huge issue again with even less in reserve. Jones might get back as well I guess.

 

[gringo2011]

A track record that means absolutely zero as the men who made those decisions have been moved on long ago.


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Lethlean and Gubby would be advising the list moves still. Sos has come in blind as has Lyon.

 

[kernelT]

Ball at the end of 2009
Goddard at the end of 2012
Nicky Dal at the end of 2013
Stanley at the end of 2014 (just don't mention him to Geelong fans)

if we're going to go down this road we may as well go further back because it's just as relevant to this year.
Ian Stewart at the end of 1970
Carl Ditterich at the end of 1972
I'm still traumatised

Yeah I guess I mention Ball because the situation seems similar with Lyon. He was still playing in 2014 so that mismanagement was effecting us in the last 10 years.
The point stands that this strategy has been eye-wateringly bad for us.

 

[gringo2011]

What separates Gresh from your typical 4th or 5th best mid is the "x factor" and the scoring capability.
Unfortunately, both of those things have noticeably dropped away in both consistency and effect.
I feel like he started showing signs of it near the end of the year, but still nowhere near where he looked like getting to in his early years. Whether that's related to injury setbacks etc, only he and the club would know.

Acres was a similar issue, and like Acres, Gresh might rediscover some of that if he changes clubs. It will suck to watch, but it might not happen.

In terms of Clark - he's got some elite capabilities, but he doesn't have the fitness or smarts to take advantage of them at this point. He's old enough now, that we have to stop saying "at this point" sooner or later. I think "now or never" can sometimes last for a couple of years, but he's nearing the end of that "now or never" period as far as reaching somewhere near his potential goes.

Coffield is the biggest unknown imo, in terms of how good he can be. There's a chance that it's only as good as we've seen, though. I really had hopes that he and Clark would both turn out to be midfielders when we drafted them - but neither look like fulfilling that unfortunately.

Anyway, I'd be happy if all three stayed and had rockets lit under them to fire up next year or it'll be their last at the Saints. On the other hand, if any or all three of them were moved on for a decent draft hand this or next year it's probably worth trying. They didn't contribute a huge amount to our finals appearance, and only Gresham's occasional x-factor will be hard to replace.

He's been injured for the last couple of years. I'd back him to come good. The indigenous boys all seemed to handle the pace of finals where most of the side looked off the pace.

Clark is really at that point where it's make or break. Same with Coffield they aren't much younger than Gresham and still haven't made a huge contribution. If you are fringe in a side at 25 it doesn't often happen that you break out. At least Coff has injuries that mean he hasn't been able to contribute.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

In previous 3 (injury interrupted) years = yes.

This year- no.
He was woeful as a mid this year unfortunately- couldn't win a clearance to save his life.

View attachment 1812261

That's "center" clearances, which begs the question, "was he attending ballups"?

 

[gringo2011]

Well that’s it in a nutshell.
Contrary to what our delusional red and black friends may think, we are only going after Shiel (apparently) to be steak knives in the deal. Not THE deal.

If he lands up in the best 22, bonus. If not, meh.

Do we know this for sure? Pretty sure Stavro said Gubby and SOS love him. I think we see him as a target as well.

 

[gringo2011]

That's "center" clearances, which begs the question, "was he attending ballups"?

Yeah, he wasn't playing as much midfield this year.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

So you think Lethlean had no part in Hanners, Hickey, Acres, Hill and Lyon and wasn’t a factor in Ball leaving?

Lethlean isn't involved with any list management decisions any longer, so no, his presence has no bearing at all.

Ball was speaking to Collingwood all through 09... anyone who thinks it was due to anything else but $$$ would also believe everything printed in the Herald Sun.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Maybe. But the people who built the last off field staff are the ones who built the current one.
They’re the ones who re-signed Richo. They’re the ones who re-signed Ratten.

The idea that we are meant to blindly believe they’ve got it right this time is laughable.

No, Finnis is gone.

Bassat is the puppeteer now.

Blindly believe whatever you want.

Toce has runs on the board. SOS & Gubby are good operators. Satan is more focused on ridding the club of debt than ridding the club of underperforming players.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Depends on money amount we’d be matching

I reckon, if Gresh gets $650 its 2nd round compensation.
$700 plus maybe end of first round.
Have to be up near $800 for a first round i think.

Also depends on years on the contract of course.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Do we know this for sure? Pretty sure Stavro said Gubby and SOS love him. I think we see him as a target as well.

We don’t know anything for sure, the whole thing is rumour and supposition. ( I did say apparently.) Can’t even remember where it started tbh.

However, I don’t see them chasing a 31 year old just for the sake of it when we are trying to go younger. If he comes as part of a deal which benefits, all well and good.

They’d have to have rocks in their heads to go after him just because they liked him previously and as the deal in its entirety.

I refuse to believe they will be that stupid.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Lethlean isn't involved with any list management decisions any longer, so no, his presence has no bearing at all.

Ball was speaking to Collingwood all through 09... anyone who thinks it was due to anything else but $$$ would also believe everything printed in the Herald Sun.

Was also pretty obvious how much better he played in 2010 than all through 2009.
Kind of suggests it was effort related. ( Or that Collingwood gave him the good gear if you buy into that ).

 

[gringo2011]

If I was a gun free agent, I’m certainly not going to a small club that’s only won one premiership in 150 years

It was always the danger with FA, it became a way that big clubs gained an advantage. The midseason draft will make it even worse IMO, small clubs clubs out of contention will get picked over.

 

[gringo2011]

We don’t know anything for sure, the whole thing is rumour and supposition. ( I did say apparently.) Can’t even remember where it started tbh.

However, I don’t see them chasing a 31 year old just for the sake of it when we are trying to go younger. If he comes as part of a deal which benefits, all well and good.

They’d have to have rocks in their heads to go after him just because they liked him previously and as the deal in its entirety.

I refuse to believe they will be that stupid.

SOS and Gubby would have been involved with getting him at GWS, he's the type of mid Lyon would like. Quick with poor kicking but can still win his own ball. Dow and him are really similar types too. Would give us a unique game style.

 

[St Neil]

Bombers fans convinced we are working a plan to give them Gresh, then trade pick 13 for Shiel + their 2nd and the 'win' for us is that they pay Shiel's contract so that we have cap space...

FMD...

Tell me we haven't been that delusional in past years?!?

Goodness me. They must be extracting the urine.

 

[kernelT]

Lethlean isn't involved with any list management decisions any longer, so no, his presence has no bearing at all.

Ball was speaking to Collingwood all through 09... anyone who thinks it was due to anything else but $$$ would also believe everything printed in the Herald Sun.

Oh that’s right, after flushing one of the most damaging trades in the modern era we promoted him to CEO… what absolute arse clowns
I’m tipping he has some involvement with the Gresham situation.

 

[Barrels]

SOS and Gubby would have been involved with getting him at GWS, he's the type of mid Lyon would like. Quick with poor kicking but can still win his own ball. Dow and him are really similar types too. Would give us a unique game style.

I really hope people regularly check your home for sharp implements, and remove them, mate.

 

[Saint Shags]

This idea of getting Shiel as a salary dump is all well and good. But he won't be moving unless we offer up a contract more than the year he has left on his current contract.
We really want to be giving him 3 years?

 

[kernelT]

Lethlean isn't involved with any list management decisions any longer, so no, his presence has no bearing at all.

Ball was speaking to Collingwood all through 09... anyone who thinks it was due to anything else but $$$ would also believe everything printed in the Herald Sun.

Ball sacked for being too slow

ST KILDA has finally revealed the reason it axed Luke Ball. Coach Ross Lyon said his lack of pace made him a liability to the team.

www.perthnow.com.au

 

[jimmytigs]

They’d have to have rocks in their heads to go after him just because they liked him previously and as the deal in its entirety.

I refuse to believe they will be that stupid.

im worried about sos,but fact is we have to back him in now that he is back,but if they recruit shiel for anything other than a quality pick,or at worst because he is virtually free,then im bagging him(sos not shiel)non stop till he is gone again,knowing we are going nowhere

by all means take him on with the 13 and if we screw that up so be it,but no way can i tolerate shiel being a serious direction the club is going in

 

[Sun Ra]

This idea of getting Shiel as a salary dump is all well and good. But he won't be moving unless we offer up a contract more than the year he has left on his current contract.
We really want to be giving him 3 years?

this is my worry