List Mgmt. 2024 Draft & Trade Hypotheticals

What should we get with our first two picks as they stand

  • Best Available for both

    Votes: 25 29.4%

  • Small forward/Small Defender

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • KPD/Small Forward

    Votes: 10 11.8%

  • Mid/KPD

    Votes: 2 2.4%

  • KPD/Defender

    Votes: 18 21.2%

  • KPF/Small Forward

    Votes: 7 8.2%

  • KPF/Mid

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • KPF/Defender

    Votes: 23 27.1%
  • Total voters
    85

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caesar88 said:
In all honesty, I could maybe see Lloyd losing his spot at some point next year (I'd be shocked if Horse didn't at least back him in for round one at a minimum.)

And I don't think it would be such a bad thing if he did. Not because he's not still very good, because he is. His first two finals in particular were just about the best games he played all year, and yet another top 10 finish in the B&F. But as I've banged on about, I think we have too many flankers/outside players, and to fit some of the players I think we need more in - such as Mills or Sheldrick for hardness in the mids, or Cleary for pressure inside 50 - I think one of the flankers has to go, and Lloyd is the oldest by a long way.

Will be very interesting to see if Horse adjusts over the summer.
Click to expand...
100% agree with this, the first two finals games were his best two game stretch in probably 3-4 years.
 
When thinking about our limited action in the trade period, I think it is important to remember that the team that won the premiership peaked at the right time. If the grand final was 6 or 12 weeks earlier they would not have won. We did the opposite of peaking at the right time, and our team got less and less balanced as the year progressed.

Horse talks a lot of players having flexibility. I think our coaching and in particular game plan need to up their flexibility also. I’d like to see a squad approach taken, not just with players rested, but with different game plans applied depending on opposition on who we select.

Take the ruck. I think a big reason our 3 forwards look so slow is that our first ruck can’t play forward to save his life. When Grundy plays lead ruck, I’d like to see us experiment with only two KPFs to create more pace (not an original idea I know). But when we rest Grundy, I’d also like to see us trial playing two second rucks (McLean + Amartey / Buller) and experimenting with different combinations in the forwards.

In the forwards, we should experiment with 3-1-2, 2-2-2 and 2-1-3 formations (tall-midsized-small).

I’d also like the team to have a full on contested focused midfield some games (eg. against Fremantle and Bulldogs) as well as the ultra fast and attacking midfield we played lot of this year for other games.

The one area I don’t think we need to experiment so mulch is defence. We need to find a back 7 who can play really solidly (our defence was relatively poor all this year) and then give them time to really gel (outside of when a player needs a rest).

I feel confident to say that this approach will likely make winning 19 games much harder, but it will mean:
  1. Our best team is fresh in finals
  2. Players don’t feel complacent in their place in the team
  3. We can discover our best game plan for finals (Brisbane literally found its in the final weeks)
  4. Other teams don’t figure us out by round 16, and then have little place to go.
Our list has some weaknesses, but I reckon most players get better next year.

One other thing I hope we ask for is 1pm / 2pm games at the MCG. I think we play it better at night when the ball skids on. When it is dry, I think the open spaces make it harder to close up space on the opposition. I think also psychologically it will give the players better opportunities to overcome their demons, as it will feel more familiar. Even just some training sessions in the middle of the day there would be great - maybe our pre-season camp can be in Melbourne?

Mods, I tried to link this post to trades, but happy for it to be moved elsewhere - the “looking forward” thread was closed so I didn’t know where to go 😢
 
Last edited:
Kbroome said:
I know most won't agree with this but this is what i would be looking to set the team up rd 0/1 next year. The forward draftee would also not be a tall it would be a medium and if not then probably Amartey comes back into the side. Could also make an argument for Fox being sub given the dropping of a tall forward
Click to expand...
Did Lloyd retire without me knowing or do you think he is going to fall off a cliff with form? He seemed to have a decent year and while he isn't the quickest going around he isn't bad either.
 

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SwansLifer said:
Did Lloyd retire without me knowing or do you think he is going to fall off a cliff with form? He seemed to have a decent year and while he isn't the quickest going around he isn't bad either.
Click to expand...
A more simple answer, him being #44 made it so he was down there with all the rookie listed or guys that are developing so i just missed him
 
caesar88 said:
In all honesty, I could maybe see Lloyd losing his spot at some point next year (I'd be shocked if Horse didn't at least back him in for round one at a minimum.)

And I don't think it would be such a bad thing if he did. Not because he's not still very good, because he is. His first two finals in particular were just about the best games he played all year, and yet another top 10 finish in the B&F. But as I've banged on about, I think we have too many flankers/outside players, and to fit some of the players I think we need more in - such as Mills or Sheldrick for hardness in the mids, or Cleary for pressure inside 50 - I think one of the flankers has to go, and Lloyd is the oldest by a long way.

Will be very interesting to see if Horse adjusts over the summer.
Click to expand...
It's a tricky thing to balance - inside vs outside.
I think we have three genuine hybrids - Heeney, Warner and probably Jordon. In the GF we played one genuine inside mid ie Rowbottom.
Another, Mills, we played in defence. Jordon we used in a number of negating roles but not as a straight-up mid. Then we played Gulden, McInerney, Campbell and Lloyd.
Definitely unbalanced in troops and roles.
I'd like us to play the troops like this:
1) Mills big body mid rests as an extra defender and interchanges with Heeney big body mid rests as a forward.
2) Sheldrick interchanges with Rowbottom. Don't know where to rest them.
3) Warner rests forward opposite Heeney and interchanges with Jordon who covers Campbell who tags the running half back. Time to see what both can do.
4) Gulden, McInerney and Lloyd can cover the wings rotation. If that's one too many out come either Campbell or Lloyd, take your pick.
We need someone to complement Rowy and Sheldrick is the closest we have.
 
RedBloodBlackSwan said:
When thinking about our limited action in the trade period, I think it is important to remember that the team that won the premiership peaked at the right time. If the grand final was 6 or 12 weeks earlier they would not have won. We did the opposite of peaking at the right time, and our team got less and less balanced as the year progressed.

Horse talks a lot of players having flexibility. I think our coaching and in particular game plan need to up their flexibility also. I’d like to see a squad approach taken, not just with players rested, but with different game plans applied depending on opposition on who we select.

Take the ruck. I think a big reason our 3 forwards look so slow is that our first ruck can’t play forward to save his life. When Grundy plays lead ruck, I’d like to see us experiment with only two KPFs to create more pace (not an original idea I know). But when we rest Grundy, I’d also like to see us trial playing two second rucks (McLean + Amartey / Buller) and experimenting with different combinations in the forwards.

In the forwards, we should experiment with 3-1-2, 2-2-2 and 2-1-3 formations (tall-midsized-small).

I’d also like the team to have a full on contested focused midfield some games (eg. against Fremantle and Bulldogs) as well as the ultra fast and attacking midfield we played lot of this year for other games.

The one area I don’t think we need to experiment so mulch is defence. We need to find a back 7 who can play really solidly (our defence was relatively poor all this year) and then give them time to really gel (outside of when a player needs a rest).

I feel confident to say that this approach will likely make winning 19 games much harder, but it will mean:
  1. Our best team is fresh in finals
  2. Players don’t feel complacent in their place in the team
  3. We can discover our best game plan for finals (Brisbane literally found its in the final weeks)
  4. Other teams don’t figure us out by round 16, and then have little place to go.
Our list has some weaknesses, but I reckon most players get better next year.

One other thing I hope we ask for is 1pm / 2pm games at the MCG. I think we play it better at night when the ball skids on. When it is dry, I think the open spaces make it harder to close up space on the opposition. I think also psychologically it will give the players better opportunities to overcome their demons, as it will feel more familiar. Even just some training sessions in the middle of the day there would be great - maybe our pre-season camp can be in Melbourne?

Mods, I tried to link this post to trades, but happy for it to be moved elsewhere - the “looking forward” thread was closed so I didn’t know where to go 😢
Click to expand...
Great post with a lot of good thinking.
 
Kiama Chris said:
It's a tricky thing to balance - inside vs outside.
I think we have three genuine hybrids - Heeney, Warner and probably Jordon. In the GF we played one genuine inside mid ie Rowbottom.
Another, Mills, we played in defence. Jordon we used in a number of negating roles but not as a straight-up mid. Then we played Gulden, McInerney, Campbell and Lloyd.
Definitely unbalanced in troops and roles.
I'd like us to play the troops like this:
1) Mills big body mid rests as an extra defender and interchanges with Heeney big body mid rests as a forward.
2) Sheldrick interchanges with Rowbottom. Don't know where to rest them.
3) Warner rests forward opposite Heeney and interchanges with Jordon who covers Campbell who tags the running half back. Time to see what both can do.
4) Gulden, McInerney and Lloyd can cover the wings rotation. If that's one too many out come either Campbell or Lloyd, take your pick.
We need someone to complement Rowy and Sheldrick is the closest we have.
Click to expand...
Pretty spot on assessment I'd say KC.

I will bite my tongue regarding the topic of finding Rowbottom a partner-in-crime that he really needs in the midfield. It will get me in trouble if I speak on it!
 
caesar88 said:
Pretty spot on assessment I'd say KC.

I will bite my tongue regarding the topic of finding Rowbottom a partner-in-crime that he really needs in the midfield. It will get me in trouble if I speak on it!
Click to expand...
I will be all over you like a seagull on a chip if you start bagging the Sheldrick. You are on notice!!
 

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Pfft. Waste of a trade period. We're backing in players who don't have it in them it seems.

We need to grow a spine - at the trade table and on the field, probably of field too. We need some inner mongrel to somehow shine through. We're just too comfortable, too passive.

We have pissed away trade value so regularly in the last few years it's horrid. 2022 is a complete write off, 2023 was dumped on a long term ruck, or players we won't use, Campbell was a massive overpay, got bent over on the Dawson deal too. Allowed every re-signing to tack on extra years or dollars, why not cut one and cash-in, instead of stretching so far that we lose flexibility. Warner will walk, cut him when the value is peak, of course not. We're allowing ourselves to be played into a corner, repeatedly.

Grow some!

I'll come up with a list of the draftees I want soon. Then you can cross them all off the likely list. Seriously losing faith with the direction of this club, I'm just not understanding their purpose.

Sporting teams are such a shit emotional investment at times.

And, rant over! Breathe, breathe..... so, what on the toastie menu?
 
LukeParkerno1 said:
Hawks will want a pick and Essendon may need that for Kako
Click to expand...
Yep its roughly the same value points wise for Essendon when you consider the Ashcroft bid and they would get an F3 but as you said i don't see much ability to trade up given our picks would have to be on draft night as 44, 59 starts to come in with the academy bids
 
TheGoatBaron said:
So Grundy and Ladhams are the only rucks on our list then with McLean being parttime ruck? I thought McAndrew had some talent. Hopefully he gets picked up as a delisted free agent somewhere.
Click to expand...
We do have Green but Amartey and McLean combo would probably be used before him
 
caesar88 said:
Pretty spot on assessment I'd say KC.

I will bite my tongue regarding the topic of finding Rowbottom a partner-in-crime that he really needs in the midfield. It will get me in trouble if I speak on it!
Click to expand...
Happy to throw it in there on your behalf. I reckon Sheldrick is the best fit for that description.
 
This is where we are at.
Hanily and Sid signed up.
Stretch delisted.

Leaves Kirk and Francis as the only unannounced signings for 2025.

I have left our 4 prospective 2024 and 2025 academy guys in (purple) but they are not counted anywhere. I'm just keeping them there to get familiar with them and see how that affects our team with the draft in mind.

We now have 38 listed players. 34 main list and 4 rookies.

We usually go with 37 main list except for last year. That means 3 picks at the draft. Then probably 2-3 rookies.

SL.png
 
Kiama Chris said:
Happy to throw it in there on your behalf. I reckon Sheldrick is the best fit for that description.
Click to expand...
He absolutely is I think, mainly through lack of alternatives.

But I think if certain mistakes weren't made, it could, and should, have been Warner.
 
rustycrate said:
This is where we are at.
Hanily and Sid signed up.
Stretch delisted.

Leaves Kirk and Francis as the only unannounced signings for 2025.

I have left our 4 prospective 2024 and 2025 academy guys in (purple) but they are not counted anywhere. I'm just keeping them there to get familiar with them and see how that affects our team with the draft in mind.

We now have 38 listed players. 34 main list and 4 rookies.

We usually go with 37 main list except for last year. That means 3 picks at the draft. Then probably 2-3 rookies.

View attachment 2146037
Click to expand...
Personally think we will buck the trend and use the full 38 this year but that could change if someone blindly gives say an F2 for that 40s selection
 
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