List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[Stamos]

Of course they all contributed to the rise playing together for the first time in a while. But let’s not pretend Martin, Motlop and to a lesser extent Cuners haven’t been key parts to the side when it was underperforming in the past.

Fog has a win rate of 60% since joining the club. Carlton have won 52% of games over that period. It is clear he makes us a better team. None of our other forwards can pressure like he does and if they could they’d probably kick half the goals.

So our forwards should pressure more and kick less goals?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I would argue he is already an elite small forward, or at least an elite pressure forward. Not everyone needs to be the goal kicker and not many are Cyril or Eddie who can do it all.

Agree. Fog is absolutely awesome at what he does, he just needs the goal kickers to lift around him. If they can't carry that load then we should be looking at alternative options at the end of the year. Everywhere else on our list is stacked for talent and we are right in our window

 

[JJBagger]

Fog is currently equal fourth in the competition for goal assists, with 6

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

So our forwards should pressure more and kick less goals?

Huh?

 

[HereComesJuddy]

So our forwards should pressure more and kick less goals?

Mate. He summed it up pretty well and I’m sure you understood what he was saying

 

[The Return of the Paf]

So our forwards should pressure more and kick less goals?

As long as they don't psych themselves up to crappy Billy Joel songs, I'm happy.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Gut feel is that the following are probably done:

Akuei (Cat B)
Durdin S (Rookie)
Mirkov (Rookie)
Cuningham (Senior)

Question mark over Marchbank.
I think we'll end up freeing up the necessary senior list spots by shifting a few blokes to the rookie list.

Akuei's spot goes to Duffy.
Durdin's rookie spot is used to retain Marchbank for one more season (unless he implodes again).
Mirkov's rookie spot is used to retain one of Owies/Fogarty/Martin purely as a LM tool.
Cuningham is a restricted free agent, I think we'll encourage him to explore his options and hope for a 3rd round compo.

The gives us three senior spots to use on the Campo boys plus either a free agent or speculative late pick. If there is a rookie we need to elevate (Boyd?) then they get that senior spot and we pick up another rookie.

Probably fairly close to the mark....this year's LM decisions are harder to pick than a broken nose. There are so many loose threads that Austin will definitely earn his pay the end of the season.

Do we take a player in the MSD, or even two given we have a couple of LTI's? And what do we do with them the end of the season given list spots will be at a premium?

I tend to think there'll be a few trade requests from players that may be sitting outside the 22. I'm also nervous that Durds hasn't been re-signed yet given his close family ties back in SA. He's one that we need to hang onto imo....huge upside when he can finally get a clear run at it. Still only 21yo and could form a pretty handy small forward combo with a 20yo Mots.

Wouldn't be surprised either to see Young seeking opportunities elsewhere if he's languishing in the magoos all year. Possibly even Kemp as well, although I reckon we'd be reluctant to let him go. WCE may also come hard at Carroll.

For the first time for a long time, we have a depth of quality players on our list that other clubs will start eyeing off.

Anyway, I think we'll likely need to clear minimum 4 spots on the senior list - 2 for the Campo's, Boyd promoted to the senior list, and at least 1 for trade/FA. And if we look to trade up before the Campo bids on draft nite, that would require even another list spot.

Putting on the list manager hat, as it currently stands (assuming no trade requests)

Goneski:

Akuei (Cat B)
S.Durdin (Rookie)
Mirkov (Rookie)
Cuningham (Senior)
Owies (Senior)
Doc (Senior)*
Cincotta (Rookie)
Marchbank (Senior)*

Akuei's spot goes to Duffy.
S.Durdin's spot goes to re-rookie Marchbank
Mirkov's spot goes to re-rookie Doc
Cunners to explore his FA options

Leaves us with 4 spots on the senior list.

And before people come after me with pitchforks, Doc becomes an UFA the end of 2025 - so we could offer him another year on top of his current contract which would take him through to 33yo - with a portion of that salary outside the cap. I could see Doc potentially agreeing to this similar to Eddie and Ed at the twilight of their careers.

Martin is the other we could possibly delist and re-rookie, but I wouldn't put it past a Dodoro or SOS to gazump us - although possibly his injury history may deter them. Similar with Orazio.

Speaking of which, I could also potentially see us delisting Orazio a year early if he breaks down again during the year. We took a risk offering a 2 year contract to secure him, but if he can't get on the park, I can see us cutting ties a year early similar to LoB last year - or offering him a rookie spot. If he does stay on the park though, I can't see him, Fog and Owies all being retained. Owies likely the unlucky one.

Need to re-sign:

Elijah
Durds
Carroll
Fog
Martin

O'Keefe and M.Carroll both get another year on the rookie list. Cincotta 50/50 depending on who we may pick up in the MSD - although I reckon he's a very handy back up at half back or on ball - but may be seen as surplus now that Williams is back up and running.

All I can say is that there's likely to be some hard decisions at the end of the year, and I wish our List Management crew all the best.

 

[Stamos]

Huh?

You said our forwardline was transformed by a forward player who provides great pressure, but doesn’t kick goals (1 every 3 games), and that if our other forwards were able to apply that transformative pressure, they’d halve the number of goals they kick, but our winning percentage would increase.

 

[Stamos]

Mate. He summed it up pretty well and I’m sure you understood what he was saying

I understood the hyperbole.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I understood the hyperbole.

when one goes, another takes the crown

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

You said our forwardline was transformed by a forward player who provides great pressure, but doesn’t kick goals (1 every 3 games), and that if our other forwards were able to apply that transformative pressure, they’d halve the number of goals they kick, but our winning percentage would increase.

Where did I say our winning percentage would increase if all of our forwards were pressuring/playing like Fog? It would almost certainly decrease as Fog is not a prolific goal kicker and having multiple of his type would see us too Harry/Charlie reliant. However there is a balance to be had, quite frankly our other smalls are not great defensively but with an elite pressure forward they can be covered for.

Not all small forwards need to be elite pressure players. Not all small forwards need to be x factor goal kickers.

But, successful forward lines need elite pressure players and x factor goal kickers. It is very rare to find a Rioli who does both and currently we don’t have one.

I think that is pretty clear and fair. I don’t appreciate you misconstruing my words and generally you are better than that.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

If you are judging Fog on his goals you haven’t got a clue.

FWIW
4.7 score involvements (2nd highest of our small forwards)
2.0 goal assists (highest at the club)
4.7 I50’s (2nd highest at the club)

Of course he could improve by getting into more scoring positions, so could all of our small forwards, but this is a guy that literally transformed our shocking forward line after the bye last year and people want to turf him for some flashy X factor type who might kick a bag of 3 once a month.

Is he underrated because he is considered a Geelong reject? Or because Teague wrote him off and Voss didn’t give him a chance until we got absolutely desperate? Premierships are built on this type of player.

I'm agreeing with you. As mentioned it's a sign of the times that the coaches look beyond the goals tally when assessing small forwards.

I am loving Fogs work this year.

My comment was relating to his goal kicking in isolation. If he could nail his set shots like Owies he'd be a lot more complete player.

Owies lethal in front of goal - 32.14 over the past 21 games - including some high pressure shots. Solid. Mentally tough.

 

[Soapy V]

Fog is currently equal fourth in the competition for goal assists, with 6

Facts Matter

 

[Accidental genius]

In order of needs.....

1. A KPD....if young isnt the answer then we need a replacement asap.
2. Refer to above...

 

[cookie monster]

Big concern. Obviously being cautious.

Now how do we fill his role as it's an important one. I don't like Kennedy doing it as he's a mid.

Is Kemp a realistic option as a third forward? I feel we need another marking option to catch out opposition. Moir would be perfect but not ready

We tried Kemp as 3rd forward before
It wasn't good

 

[Juice030103]

Might be a bit of an emotional response by me but time to cull the constantly injured players


Best ability is availability. Save their spots and money for reliable consistent performers who might not be as talented

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Might be a bit of an emotional response by me but time to cull the constantly injured players


Best ability is availability. Save their spots and money for reliable consistent performers who might not be as talented

As Kingy always says... The best ability, is availability

 

[Soapy V]

Might be a bit of an emotional response by me but time to cull the constantly injured players


Best ability is availability. Save their spots and money for reliable consistent performers who might not be as talented

It's getting to that stage. A mostly fit list and we are a real flag threat. BUT if you are constantly carrying 5-10 injuries it makes it much harder

With Stars like Walsh, Docherty, Williams constantly missing games, Injury prone names like Cuningham Marchbank Martin S.Durdin Mirkov will be questioned regarding this issue at years end. Can't carry them all

 

[bradfisher14]

Might be a bit of an emotional response by me but time to cull the constantly injured players


Best ability is availability. Save their spots and money for reliable consistent performers who might not be as talented

As frustrating as it might be, I'll hold off on these judgements until the end of the year. Too early to be putting a line through blokes. We need them up and running in September, not round 4. Injuries are inevitable and they provide a great opportunity for our depth players to get more exposure at AFL level.

I think we're in a strong position with our list where we can cover a few guys being injured and still win games. It's what the great sides have always done. Geelong used to nurse Paul Chapman through home & away campaigns to make sure he was ready for finals. Hawthorn the same with Cyril.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

As frustrating as it might be, I'll hold off on these judgements until the end of the year. Too early to be putting a line through blokes. We need them up and running in September, not round 4.

It's been like 7 years for most of the players in question

 

[bradfisher14]

It's been like 7 years for most of the players in question

Yes, but I don't recall people complaining about their spot on the list during finals last year.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

it’s an interesting list of players. Outside Mirkov and Akuei I could see all playing a role in a premiership side but outside of Martin none being real vital.
It wouldn’t surprise me if all are given non insulting lowball offers and we decide from there. There are about 3 of them I wouldn’t offer much, if anything more then minimum wage.

 

[Soapy V]

With the Injuries being an issue AGAIN the mid season draft becomes very important.

Two spots we can fill so far

 

[jj1978]

With the Injuries being an issue AGAIN the mid season draft becomes very important.

Two spots we can fill so far

Yep, essential we nail those 2 picks too as most likely we hit finals again we'll need to keep pushing player competition and have good cover just in case.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

Big concern. Obviously being cautious.

Now how do we fill his role as it's an important one. I don't like Kennedy doing it as he's a mid.

Is Kemp a realistic option as a third forward? I feel we need another marking option to catch out opposition. Moir would be perfect but not ready

I’d like to try Kemp forward when Marchbank is ready vs Crows.

Cripps/Kennedy/also “resting” forward is an option, when Walsh is back.

Throw in Owies, Durdin & Motlop & Cunners( in a couple of weeks) with King C & H.

It looks pretty potent!

Martin a luxury in the 2nd 1/2 - no need to rush.