List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[JustaBattler]

Still a Harley sceptic.

But I was of De Goey too, for similar reasons.

Guys like that with the ego and history of being bullies often get found out unless they have the next gear.

Harley is starting to prove he has it, but I am keeping my powder dry

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Harley is the type of player you can build a team around if he has any leadership qualities at all. As far as football ability goes I rate him as high as Walsh different strengths I dont think he ahs teh endurance of Walshy- but he has Wpash covered for strength - the kid will be a superstar.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

That's a pretty fair summary. It's not fantasy footy. If we've got cap space but there is no clear CHB target (which has to be our #1 priority) out there then just bring forward salary payments and free up space for the next year. I know there are some injury issues but a Barrass level player or nothing.

Spending it on a Hayward - I mean seriously - why? Is he so much better than the players we've already got to justify an exorbitant FA salary of $800k+?

I know it seems boring but we could stick to the draft and find one there - Sam De Koning was a CHB in a premiership year one out of the draft from a pick 20 and he'll be their CHB for another 10+ years. Sam Taylor was pick 30odd.

The draft can get us a far better player but also protect us from dropping off a cliff in 4-5 years.

Nobody would pay 800k + for Hayward except Norf. If we're targeting him it would be under the circumstances that he isn't chasing money but he's chasing opportunity, which we could easily provide. He's a role player similar to Acres and Hewett and would be paid as such.

And SDK was in his 3rd year when he played in the premiership, almost no 1st year KPP's can have a genuine impact such is the strength difference and learnings needed to compete against the top KPP's in the comp.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

That's a pretty fair summary. It's not fantasy footy. If we've got cap space but there is no clear CHB target (which has to be our #1 priority) out there then just bring forward salary payments and free up space for the next year. I know there are some injury issues but a Barrass level player or nothing.

Spending it on a Hayward - I mean seriously - why? Is he so much better than the players we've already got to justify an exorbitant FA salary of $800k+?

I know it seems boring but we could stick to the draft and find one there - Sam De Koning was a CHB in a premiership year one out of the draft from a pick 20 and he'll be their CHB for another 10+ years. Sam Taylor was pick 30odd.

The draft can get us a far better player but also protect us from dropping off a cliff in 4-5 years.

Absolutely!!! Unless the Swans are willing to let him walk via an amicable agreement similar to George, you'd be crazy to pay that amount of overs to get him across.

Personally I'd prefer to hang onto JSOS who plays a similar role, but at a higher level (imo), and without the price tag.

We've currently got all the pieces right now - it's just a matter of identifying an area we can improve and targeting that player for the right price. I mentioned in a previous post Cumberland as that type of dynamic half forward who can hit the scoreboard - exactly the type who could make an immediate impact for minimum chips....until it's been suggested he may have some off-field issues suggesting buyer beware.

But we need to stick to the draft to keep adding that young talent....and as an aside, with Tassie entering/compromising the draft in a few years time, the decision to corner the Irish market by our LM team is bloody brilliant. Whether it amounts to anything is a different matter, but I love the lateral thinking.

 

[katmanblue]

Is Stengle not a FA this year?

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[JustOneTime]

When Sydney were just so-so, Hayward was average. Now Sydney's elite kicing midfielders + Blakey are making him look like a strong forward.

We don't have a plethora of elite kickers like sydney so for us he would be average.

At the right price then maybe. If its 800k, please use that cash on a much better player.

 

[Opium]

Nobody would pay 800k + for Hayward except Norf. If we're targeting him it would be under the circumstances that he isn't chasing money but he's chasing opportunity, which we could easily provide. He's a role player similar to Acres and Hewett and would be paid as such.

And SDK was in his 3rd year when he played in the premiership, almost no 1st year KPP's can have a genuine impact such is the strength difference and learnings needed to compete against the top KPP's in the comp.

There would be plenty of second/ third year key defenders in the AFL yet to play. This is where astute recruiting comes in. Identify players who have not been given opportunities and won't cost a huge amount.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Nobody would pay 800k + for Hayward except Norf. If we're targeting him it would be under the circumstances that he isn't chasing money but he's chasing opportunity, which we could easily provide. He's a role player similar to Acres and Hewett and would be paid as such.

And SDK was in his 3rd year when he played in the premiership, almost no 1st year KPP's can have a genuine impact such is the strength difference and learnings needed to compete against the top KPP's in the comp.

That's what he'll cost. Otherwise he'd stay put and get $600k without having to change clubs. The cap is going up by 25% so free agents are going to cost even more. Williams already cost us $800k unde the previous cap. Hayward not a million miles away from him.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Absolutely!!! Unless the Swans are willing to let him walk via an amicable agreement similar to George, you'd be crazy to pay that amount of overs to get him across.

Personally I'd prefer to hang onto JSOS who plays a similar role, but at a higher level (imo), and without the price tag.

We've currently got all the pieces right now - it's just a matter of identifying an area we can improve and targeting that player for the right price. I mentioned in a previous post Cumberland as that type of dynamic half forward who can hit the scoreboard - exactly the type who could make an immediate impact for minimum chips....until it's been suggested he may have some off-field issues suggesting buyer beware.

But we need to stick to the draft to keep adding that young talent....and as an aside, with Tassie entering/compromising the draft in a few years time, the decision to corner the Irish market by our LM team is bloody brilliant. Whether it amounts to anything is a different matter, but I love the lateral thinking.

I agree. The Irish thing is a real sign we're committed to becoming industry leaders. Getting 4 or 5 thoroughly researched / selected irish guys at once would be an incredible advantage really. Help with the home sickness factor also. What an awesome initiative.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

There would be plenty of second/ third year key defenders in the AFL yet to play. This is where astute recruiting comes in. Identify players who have not been given opportunities and won't cost a huge amount.

Agreed. I also like the idea of targeting a failed forward desperate for a change. Jones / P McCartin style.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Agreed. I also like the idea of targeting a failed forward desperate for a change. Jones / P McCartin style.

Lemmey?

 

[katmanblue]

Lemmey?

Probably someone with more aggression.

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[Benaly28]

So who would you cut/replace as high priorities?

Martin/Marchbank/Cunners/Mitch

Not a popular decision but Doc will be 30 plus 3 knee recos wouldn’t expect too much out of him but his leadership is priceless.

As for replacing the above anyone with ability but NOT prone to injury.Weve been carrying them for years.

Martin and Mitch in big money too.


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[HaydossJ]

Might have been raised before and shut down, but Zurhaar anyone? If he wants $$$, he will remain at Norf.

So if he wants to leave for success, why not us? Goal-kicker, aggressive, can have spurts on-ball, and fills a need forward.

 

[TENACIOUS]

To get more outside pace through the midfield…

Could we target an Isaac Cumming

13

Isaac Cumming

Age

25

Ht

188cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.2

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.3

4star

MG

158.0

2star

D

9.5

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.5

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.5

3star

MG

158.0

3star

D

10.6

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.6

4star

(elite speed and footskills) for HB and alternate Williams and Saad through the midfield…

 

[Juddernaut08]

The list seems to have built very good depth. If we can start getting players fit then the silver lining on all these early injuries is that it's built some solid depth.

Guys like Carroll, Cowan, Cuningham, Fantasia, Durdin, Pitto and Young have all played games this season and although IMO they aren't in our best 22, they'll be ready to step in should it be needed in the later rounds + finals.

Cerra, Saad, Martin, McGovern and Motlop to return really excites me. Forgarty too for what he brings.

 

[Blue__Balls]

The Hayward acquisition would have to be on the assumption we're shedding some of our always-injured forwards. If that's the case, we're opening up cap space and then utilising it to bring in a proven role player in a position of significant need. He doesn't need to be elite to play 23+ games for us and have an impact. He just needs to replicate his prior form, or improve on it with more responsibility/opportunity, and not ping a calf every third week.

No idea where the $800k numbers are coming from. Seems like it's just a spitball from people who have already decided they don't want him...is there anything more concrete than "that's what it'll take for him to move"? For all we know he's looking for a club where he can play a more attacking role, or he wants to get to VIC, or he wants a longer deal than Sydney are offering and will take less dollars to get it. His reasons are his own, and until an actual dollar value is reliably reported we may as well have a mutual understanding that nobody wants to overpay for him, and just focus the conversation on "if the price is right then is he a good fit?".

There are only so many players on the market each year. We don't need to chase any of them if we don't rate them. But if there's a solid, reliable, proven player with plenty of gas in the tank (ie. 5+ years of footy in him), who covers a gap in the list that either already exists or we anticipate creating, and who doesn't chew up any draft capital.....well, you make the move if possible.

Heard some intriguing conversation on the radio this morning. Apparently Craig McCrae has adopted a philosophy of "they're not your goals, they're our goals" with his players. Any goal kicked is recognised as the result of work done by any number of players, with the ball, without the ball, whatever - they're not a stat solely for the bloke who happened to put it through. Apparently Ginnivan was just about the only bloke on the list who couldn't wrap his head around it, and his selfishness got him moved on.

I suspect Voss has a similar philosophy. Hayward wouldn't be expected to come in and kick 60 goals. The question is, can he improve us structurally, can he buy in to the team ethos, and can he stay on the ****ing park enough for those two to be relevant.

 

[Foucault1989]

That's a pretty fair summary. It's not fantasy footy. If we've got cap space but there is no clear CHB target (which has to be our #1 priority) out there then just bring forward salary payments and free up space for the next year. I know there are some injury issues but a Barrass level player or nothing.

Spending it on a Hayward - I mean seriously - why? Is he so much better than the players we've already got to justify an exorbitant FA salary of $800k+?

I know it seems boring but we could stick to the draft and find one there - Sam De Koning was a CHB in a premiership year one out of the draft from a pick 20 and he'll be their CHB for another 10+ years. Sam Taylor was pick 30odd.

The draft can get us a far better player but also protect us from dropping off a cliff in 4-5 years.

Couldn't agree more. Cap space is so valuable. Use it wisely. Hayward wouldn't move the needle much. A fit JSOS is a similar type who I think adds more value.

Hit the draft. That's the key to sustainable success. Unless it's a once in a decade acquisition, no point using high draft capital and cap space. Get roles players or young players around the edges but otherwise back your recruiters to draft the right players.

Every gun afl player came from the draft. Nail it. That's what the best teams do as well as elite development.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The Hayward acquisition would have to be on the assumption we're shedding some of our always-injured forwards. If that's the case, we're opening up cap space and then utilising it to bring in a proven role player in a position of significant need. He doesn't need to be elite to play 23+ games for us and have an impact. He just needs to replicate his prior form, or improve on it with more responsibility/opportunity, and not ping a calf every third week.

No idea where the $800k numbers are coming from. Seems like it's just a spitball from people who have already decided they don't want him...is there anything more concrete than "that's what it'll take for him to move"? For all we know he's looking for a club where he can play a more attacking role, or he wants to get to VIC, or he wants a longer deal than Sydney are offering and will take less dollars to get it. His reasons are his own, and until an actual dollar value is reliably reported we may as well have a mutual understanding that nobody wants to overpay for him, and just focus the conversation on "if the price is right then is he a good fit?".

There are only so many players on the market each year. We don't need to chase any of them if we don't rate them. But if there's a solid, reliable, proven player with plenty of gas in the tank (ie. 5+ years of footy in him), who covers a gap in the list that either already exists or we anticipate creating, and who doesn't chew up any draft capital.....well, you make the move if possible.

Heard some intriguing conversation on the radio this morning. Apparently Craig McCrae has adopted a philosophy of "they're not your goals, they're our goals" with his players. Any goal kicked is recognised as the result of work done by any number of players, with the ball, without the ball, whatever - they're not a stat solely for the bloke who happened to put it through. Apparently Ginnivan was just about the only bloke on the list who couldn't wrap his head around it, and his selfishness got him moved on.

I suspect Voss has a similar philosophy. Hayward wouldn't be expected to come in and kick 60 goals. The question is, can he improve us structurally, can he buy in to the team ethos, and can he stay on the ******* park enough for those two to be relevant.

Wonderfully said. If 800k is the new 500k then sure, maybe he's an 800k player... But everyone, including Sydney, knows he's a role player and that's how he'd be valued. Blake Acres and George Hewett barely cost us a penny yet we got both of them out no questions asked.

Sydney has a history of trading fairly/allowing players to move for better opportunities if they are on the fringe for their team and imo he'd likely be moving back home for A) More opportunities as an offensive player or B) Because his girlfriend's family is from here and they want to be closer to home for her. She's 27 this year from memory so every chance they'd be looking at starting a family soon.

Anyway, the club isn't going to fork out massive amounts of cash for a player of Haywards calibre, if we're linked to him it's because we can afford to bring him across and think he'll be an upgrade/more durable than what we've got. Austin and his team have made that evident over his tenure.

 

[Opium]

To get more outside pace through the midfield…

Could we target an Isaac Cumming (elite speed and footskills) for HB and alternate Williams and Saad through the midfield…

I think the Williams midfield move has run its race.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Couldn't agree more. Cap space is so valuable. Use it wisely. Hayward wouldn't move the needle much. A fit JSOS is a similar type who I think adds more value.

Hit the draft. That's the key to sustainable success. Unless it's a once in a decade acquisition, no point using high draft capital and cap space. Get roles players or young players around the edges but otherwise back your recruiters to draft the right players.

Every gun afl player came from the draft. Nail it. That's what the best teams do as well as elite development.

Hypothetically, say we have 3 years left of our 'window' and our small forwards are still an issue that's holding us back from the ultimate success...

Would it not be completely negligent to pass up on trade targets who will help solve that issue without costing a fortune just so we can continue hitting the draft?

Draftee's nearly always take at minimum a few years to start consistently performing at a high level unless they're Sam Walsh, Nick Daicos types (Nearly always a top 5-10 pick)

That runs the risk that by the time a new draftee is ready to perform, our window might be closed. Cripps, Newman, Doch, Williams, Gov etc are all closer to the end than the start.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Couldn't agree more. Cap space is so valuable. Use it wisely. Hayward wouldn't move the needle much. A fit JSOS is a similar type who I think adds more value.

Hit the draft. That's the key to sustainable success. Unless it's a once in a decade acquisition, no point using high draft capital and cap space. Get roles players or young players around the edges but otherwise back your recruiters to draft the right players.

Every gun afl player came from the draft. Nail it. That's what the best teams do as well as elite development.

Hayward's a free agent, picking him up would be aiding in hitting the draft because it allows us to replace an injury prone player with one who can be relied on. That in turn means we can focus our draft picks on best available rather than trying to draft for needs.

Hayward in. Martin and Cunners out. We get as many games from Hayward as we do the other two combined, for less money, and from only one list spot. That list spot accommodates one of the Campo's. Ergo...draft.

 

[Foucault1989]

Hypothetically, say we have 3 years left of our 'window' and our small forwards are still an issue that's holding us back from the ultimate success...

Would it not be completely negligent to pass up on trade targets who will help solve that issue without costing a fortune just so we can continue hitting the draft?

Draftee's nearly always take at minimum a few years to start consistently performing at a high level unless they're Sam Walsh, Nick Daicos types (Nearly always a top 5-10 pick)

That runs the risk that by the time a new draftee is ready to perform, our window might be closed. Cripps, Newman, Doch, Williams, Gov etc are all closer to the end than the start.

Yeah I get it's a difficult balance to strike and I'm not totally against make wise decisions when it comes to player acquisition for the right player at the right price. I just don't want a 4 year contract and 600k per year for a player who is solid without being a huge upgrade on what we've got.

Also not a fan of selling the future completely. The best teams always have young talent replenishing the side. Sustainable success rather than an isolated 3 year window is what we need.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

It’s not a sexy option, but I’d be keen to pursue Jack Petrucelli from WCE.

I think he’d be a valuable asset in a better team where he can showcase his speed and run and carry.

My only concern is that adding another Italian to the list would tip the scales in the Italian/Greek battle at Carlton.

Italians

Cerra
Cincotta
Silvagni
Pittonet
Petrucelle?


Greeks

Cripps
Walsh

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Yeah I get it's a difficult balance to strike and I'm not totally against make wise decisions when it comes to player acquisition for the right player at the right price. I just don't want a 4 year contract and 600k per year for a player who is solid without being a huge upgrade on what we've got.

Also not a fan of selling the future completely. The best teams always have young talent replenishing the side. Sustainable success rather than an isolated 3 year window is what we need.

We've got Cody Walker and the Campo twins on the way which is a massive advantage. I think that alone will keep us regenerating while we finish higher up the ladder over our run, while allowing us to top up again to try to patch up our final couple of holes in the list.

If Liam Jones was still on our list and we were able to pick up a ready made small forward this off season I think our list would be close to the most complete list in modern footy. I don't think we can realistically afford to fill our KPD void given the steep cost of quality KPD but I think we can bring in that small forward target and work with what we've got down back with Kemp, Weiters, Gov, Marchy, Young etc.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

It’s not a sexy option, but I’d be keen to pursue Jack Petrucelli from WCE.

I think he’d be a valuable asset in a better team where he can showcase his speed and run and carry.

My only concern is that adding another Italian to the list would tip the scales in the Italian/Greek battle at Carlton.

Italians

Cerra
Cincotta
Silvagni
Pittonet
Petrucelle?


Greeks

Cripps
Walsh

He's been making some massive strides this last 12 months with his footy from what I've watched. Had to become a more rounded player due to the insipid ball movement of the Weagles which has meant he's had to actually go win the ball and get to good areas instead of just having it delivered on a silver platter like in 2019.

Don't mind it C4.