List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[CCurnow3votes]

We're 3 and a half months from the free agency period, and about 4 months from the trade period - clubs are absolutely putting lines through blokes and making quiet commitments to opposition players.

This isn't a 20yo kid who hasn't shown anything yet but might do so if given some opportunity. It's a 30yo with a demonstrated proclivity for missing a lot of games. And he's not alone, and it's putting undue pressure on the rest of the list.

Does it mean we don't play him? Of course not. Does it mean if he plays the rest of the year and dominates that we can't reassess? Of course not. But you'd want to see some kind of evidence that his injury troubles are behind him, otherwise all it is is a repeat of last off-season when we extended Cunners and Marchbank.

2023, Marchbank plays the final 5 rounds of the season as well as all three finals. Is solid.
2024, plays two games in the first half of the season.

2023, Cuningham plays the final 10 games of the season, as well as two finals. Is OK but unspectacular.
2024, plays three games in the first half of the season.

2023, Martin plays almost the entire second half of the season, as well as two finals. Is solid.
2024, plays one game in the first half of the season.

Williams is a different kettle of fish. He did his ACL last year. Came back this year and was a bit tentative, lacking touch, suspect defensively. Pitched a move into the forward line, Vossy gave him a crack, and he's looked more energetic than at any time previously with us.

The issue with Martin isn't role. We know what role he fills, and he does do it well. The issue is that he is a liability when it comes to availability, and you can't hold onto highly paid blokes like that indefinitely without it forcing compromise in other areas of your list management strategy.

I'd happily argue that we went out and recruited a Martin replacement in Hollands, giving ourselves a 12 month overlap with which to judge if the change was beneficial. I think it's shown that it is. If we still need another third tall forward, we should go get a reliable one instead paying a premium to a bloke who is genuinely 50/50 to be available when we need him.

Let’s see what happens with these 3 - it’s an interesting watch.

We need Martin at least to help provide another layer to our F50 mix - if we’re hoping to win the lot this year.

I’m not saying conversations aren’t being had of course - in Martin’s case I’m very much glass half full.

No way he’s on big money now - heavily front ended contract by all reports.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Nothing wrong with a NM or * sniffing There’s always going to be someone. But let’s be honest, it’s probably driven by his manager to score another contract.

Let’s just see if he is playing AFL come 2027. Based off his body of work, it’s looking doubtful.

And yes, this year he could most certainly help us. But let’s not kid ourselves, there’s not 10 clubs out there hoping we don’t re-sign him.

It’s pretty proven that the most healthy teams make a good run at a premiership. If he breaks down again this year, most likely not only will it be curtains from us, but from any potential onlooker.

Burgoyne was 28/29 when he went to the hawks. Played 250 more games... 150 odd games for port in 8 or so seasons. Jacks at 150 in 10 or so I think ? No reason he won't play 150 more games. Silk was a freak but jacks got just as much talent.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Burgoyne was 28/29 when he went to the hawks. Played 250 more games... 150 odd games for port in 8 or so seasons. Jacks at 150 in 10 or so I think ? No reason he won't play 150 more games. Silk was a freak but jacks got just as much talent.

Interesting exercise here then.

You're Austin. How many years are you signing Martin up for now?

Obviously we're not talking "He's the next Burgoyne, quick, give him a 10 year deal so we can get those 250 games", but what's the number? One year deal? Two years, three, five?

And what do you need to see in that [insert number] of years in order to extend his contract again?

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Interesting exercise here then.

You're Austin. How many years are you signing Martin up for now?

Obviously we're not talking "He's the next Burgoyne, quick, give him a 10 year deal so we can get those 250 games", but what's the number? One year deal? Two years, three, five?

And what do you need to see in that [insert number] of years in order to extend his contract again?

Prove it 1 year deal. He might not like it and will definitely test the market but only bad clubs would offer anything different I'd imagine. So he can stay and prove it or go to st Kilda for 2 years etc.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Burgoyne was 28/29 when he went to the hawks. Played 250 more games... 150 odd games for port in 8 or so seasons. Jacks at 150 in 10 or so I think ? No reason he won't play 150 more games. Silk was a freak but jacks got just as much talent.

Respectfully disagree.

Jack will be lucky to play another 50 games

 

[Blue__Balls]

Prove it 1 year deal. He might not like it and will definitely test the market but only bad clubs would offer anything different I'd imagine. So he can stay and prove it or go to st Kilda for 2 years etc.

OK...but then what does he need to do in that 1 year to consider it a success? Is another 12 games and a few goals in finals a pass mark, or are we signing him for 1 more season with a view to him playing 20+ games?

And why does 2025 in isolation count for more than the body of evidence over 2020-24?

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Respectfully disagree.

Jack will be lucky to play another 50 games

Don't have to be respectful mate I don't care haha. Idk if he will or won't I'd still back him on a one year deal next year

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

OK...but then what does he need to do in that 1 year to consider it a success? Is another 12 games and a few goals in finals a pass mark, or are we signing him for 1 more season with a view to him playing 20+ games?

And why does 2025 in isolation count for more than the body of evidence over 2020-24?

I'd assume that's very much down to whatever the discussion end of that season with Russell entails. Whether he thinks they've got continuity or if the pattern just repeats... Dunno!

 

[bigblueboy]

I'd like to keep Martin - but I'm thinking he will get a better offer either in tenure or $$ (maybe both) elsewhere.

 

[bigblueboy]

I think whether Martin, Cunners, Marchbank get contracts comes down to how many list spots we have and who else we bring in. We won't delist any of them to just take a late pick in the draft so doubt all go but also doubt all stay. If they do get extended, they should be 1 year offers on minimum dollars. If they want more they can walk.

At this stage of the year, this is my pecking order of who I would be most likely to delist to least likely (OOC Players).

Akuei
Mirkov
S.Durdin

M.Caroll
H.O'Keefe

Cunners
Marchbank
Martin

J.Carroll

First 3 are no brainers but Akuei doesn't give us a list spot. Next 2 are developing guys who haven't shown much but haven't been given much opportunity either. O'Keefe could get lucky if we don't want to move on 2 developing rucks in 1 year.

Then you got the 3 injury prone guys who are close to best 22 when fit. I'd struggle to delist any of them ahead of the above 5, with the exception of O'Keefe if he's deemed a structural need. Their order will come to down availability to finish the season but if all are fit that's the order I'd rank them.

J.Carroll I'd like to keep for midfield depth purposes though I question whether he ultimately makes it.

Haven't included Lord and Monahan as think they're automatic extensions.

We'll need at least 4-5 list spots but there is also a possibility of a player or 2 being traded. Will be interesting.

Agree with most of this - however think O'Keefe is a definite keeper given Mirkov will go. Suspect Lord is only on a six-month deal, he's no guarantee for a spot beyond this year.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Agree with most of this - however think O'Keefe is a definite keeper given Mirkov will go. Suspect Lord is only on a six-month deal, he's no guarantee for a spot beyond this year.

Think the commentary from Austin pre-MSD was that we'd be selecting with a view to the future. On that basis, I think Lord would have to have a very poor second half of the year for us to not extend him in some fashion.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I'd assume that's very much down to whatever the discussion end of that season with Russell entails. Whether he thinks they've got continuity or if the pattern just repeats... Dunno!

Yeah, it's an interesting one. I guess what I'm getting at is how long do you keep persisting with an injury-prone but talented player in the hopes that they do a "Burgoyne"?

We've already invested 5 years for very little return. I think you'd need evidence that something drastic has changed for him to warrant an extension on anything approaching the AFL average salary.

Of the cursed trio, I think he's got the highest ceiling when it comes to impact, Marchbank the highest floor, and Cunners is all profile and potential without much substance. If you were going to keep one of them, I'd be open to either Martin or Marchy, but it'd be based on what replacements are available and what their contract expectations are.

Zurhaar gettable? Cut Martin, keep Marchy.
Battle gettable? Cut Marchy, keep Martin.
On the assumption whichever is staying is doing so on a contract commensurate with playing half as many games as anyone else on the list.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I think whether Martin, Cunners, Marchbank get contracts comes down to how many list spots we have and who else we bring in. We won't delist any of them to just take a late pick in the draft so doubt all go but also doubt all stay. If they do get extended, they should be 1 year offers on minimum dollars. If they want more they can walk.

At this stage of the year, this is my pecking order of who I would be most likely to delist to least likely (OOC Players).

Akuei
Mirkov
S.Durdin

M.Caroll
H.O'Keefe

Cunners
Marchbank
Martin

J.Carroll

First 3 are no brainers but Akuei doesn't give us a list spot. Next 2 are developing guys who haven't shown much but haven't been given much opportunity either. O'Keefe could get lucky if we don't want to move on 2 developing rucks in 1 year.

Then you got the 3 injury prone guys who are close to best 22 when fit. I'd struggle to delist any of them ahead of the above 5, with the exception of O'Keefe if he's deemed a structural need. Their order will come to down availability to finish the season but if all are fit that's the order I'd rank them.

J.Carroll I'd like to keep for midfield depth purposes though I question whether he ultimately makes it.

Haven't included Lord and Monahan as think they're automatic extensions.

We'll need at least 4-5 list spots but there is also a possibility of a player or 2 being traded. Will be interesting.

There are other considerations.

Weiters and TDK out of contract next year and will command sizable contracts. Hopefully they don't demand overs, and I suspect they'll take less than they could get elsewhere, but we'll still need to pay them according to their status as talented KPPs.

Sign Martin, Marchy and Cunners for next year on average wages ($450k each?), and we can cull them at the end of next year, sure. But cut them now, bring in some kids (let's be honest, we don't have a heap of young guys developing), shuffle the books and bring some of Harry/Charlie/Cripps' money forward, and we free up extra cap space to accommodate fair deals for Weiters and TDK.

It's also not a bad idea to bring in a few late prospects this year on 2-year draftee contracts so that we've got more flexibility at the end of 2026. Currently the list of players coming off deals that year are: Moir, Durdin, Binns, Boyd, Cowan, Fogarty, Young, O. Hollands, Walsh and Williams. 6 of those are currently best 22, one is fringe, one is our only fit KPD depth, one is a young winger racking it up in the twos, and the last is a highly rated Jack Martin type who may just need some opportunity in the next few years as his tank improves. Every chance we get to the end of 2026 and only want to move on one or two of those names, so drafting a few kids now gives us a two-year look at them to see if they warrant retention (ie. a KPD prospect to replace Young...?), and if not then we've got a few extra easy delists.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

If we sign Cuningham, Marchbank and Martin this off season I'll be calling for Austin's head. We've been through this a half dozen time already. We can't continue to be hamstrung by perennially injured types.

 

[Bletch]

If we sign Cuningham, Marchbank and Martin this off season I'll be calling for Austin's head. We've been through this a half dozen time already. We can't continue to be hamstrung by perennially injured types.

Keep one of the three max for me.

 

[Monty1978]

Cunners I would delist
Marchbank depending on who we get best case scenario for me rookie
Martin 1 year deal .. if he gets more else where thanks for your services

 

[Arr0w]

I doubt the club will move on all injury prone or underperforming players

Id move past Cuners, Marchbank, S Durdin, Akuei and Mirkov. Try to manufacture and exit plan for Young (if we can acquire a current player from another club). Carroll and Owies might be a trade options, but happy to retain both

I'd hang on to Martin, 2 year contract, performance based. If he wants a bigger contract and he can find it elsewhere, you part company

 

[Stamos]

Id move past Marchbank, S Durdin. Try to manufacture and exit plan for Young (if we can acquire a current player from another club).

Not sure we should replace 3 tall defenders (our entire depth) with only 1

 

[AceAndy]

I doubt the club will move on all injury prone or underperforming players

Id move past Cuners, Marchbank, S Durdin, Akuei and Mirkov. Try to manufacture and exit plan for Young (if we can acquire a current player from another club). Carroll and Owies might be a trade options, but happy to retain both

I'd hang on to Martin, 2 year contract, performance based. If he wants a bigger contract and he can find it elsewhere, you part company

It certainly has been the case for quite a few years. I suspect people dont realise how difficult it is to get players into the club and in a practical sense we can only turnover a relatively small number of players each year so we keep some of the injury prone and under performers unfortunately.

 

[Gw2_James]

Mcgovern, Williams, Martin, Cuningham, Marchbank.

Our 5 most injury prone players. If it were me, I'm keeping just 2, you can't have that many injury prone players and expect to be competing for a flag in a long season.

I'd keep Williams and Mcgovern.

 

[Benaly28]

So looks like cats have offered Stengle $700 over 4 and talk is he may go to highest bidder would we do $750 over 5?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Benaly28]

Williams/Motlop/Stengle…..

I’m just saying.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Williams/Motlop/Stengle…..

I’m just saying.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

We won’t chase Stengle

 

[DangerousD]

So looks like cats have offered Stengle $700 over 4 and talk is he may go to highest bidder would we do $750 over 5?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Im all for players pushing for max $$$$$ but I wouldn’t be changing jobs/clubs unless it was for a significantly better deal, if he’s knocking back $700,000 only to accept $750,000, that’s not great.

 

[RJK Tiger]

Howdy, Can i ask with Marchbank. Where is he at? Feel like his career never got started due to injures & then form issues.

Is it a case he has no role anymore or his performance only warrants VFL selection, when fit? Is his body just not made for AFL speed? Seems like he is on most here deslit shortlist.