List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[swuzzlebubble]

trades in F1 so it isn’t used by Ben Campo

I'd have thought f1 would get used before likely bids?

 

[Coops93]

Didn’t think players could sign prior to a certain date. We do applaud our list management, but with a few wanting Young, Pitto to be traded shows they jumped the gun in extending a bit too early.

Cornes is a bellend, but one thing he's brought me around on that's on his agenda is all these long term contracts going around now.

Pitto for 4 years was quite incredible. I'm not convinced I buy this "Pitto softens them up and TDK jumps over them" narrative that's around, to me TDK is much better as the no.1 ruckman. We've seen over a long period now that TDK is not a good forward so having 2 ruckman that can't play forward is limiting to an already slowish team. Further to Pitto is that his body already looks knackered, yet he's around for another 4 yrs.

I don't dislike Pittonet and think he's great for what he is, a solid workmanlike tap ruck, but 4 years? That's a lot when you have a budding young star just waiting to take over as no.1

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Who's going out for him?

Forgot ins and outs. Start with a clean sheet and pick the team.

 

[YamandU]

We need a stop gap ruckman for 1/2 seasons.
Really cost us badly

 

[Forty3]

The bold is where the real issue seems to be with some of our supporter group

Then, 1-2 of his strengths seem to outweigh his current flaws

Never seen any fringe player, Carlton or otherwise, spoken about so highly

It's hard to accept, and it's an old cliche, but once a player enters the club they are selected by, where they were drafted becomes completely irrelevant.

I do think that Dow has the ability to be a solid AFL football player. At times during our winning period this year I felt he contributed better to our mix than Kennedy and even Hewett at times.
His issue is really his lack of flexibility. With Ed retiring, Hewett is really our only defense first midfielder, and Kennedy does have the potential to float forward (at times).

The only other fridge players that I can think of that have been spoken about this highly in the past have been Charlie Constable (we've seen how that played out), Kym LeBois... who kicked a really good goal in a preseason game once and people on this board probably still think he could be the next Eddie Betts, and now Elijah Hollands...

 

[thylacine60]

Forgot ins and outs. Start with a clean sheet and pick the team.

clean sheets......good times....

 

[Blue1980]

Shaun Mannagh 27 disposals 6 goals mature age player good age bracket.
We lose Dow will offer good depth and also kick 40 goals for the year playing mid/forward. So could settle up forward as well.
Gettable Cal T said today Hollands to Carlton for a future 2nd should get it done. Will be an absolute steal if true!

Dow could kick 40 goals as a mid forward?

Now I get you, Mannagh, sounds like a type we could do with, how was the rest of his season?

 

[swuzzlebubble]

The only other fridge players that I can think of that have been spoken about this highly

William Perry?
Mark Roberts?

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Dow could kick 40 goals as a mid forward?

Now I get you, Mannagh, sounds like a type we could do with, how was the rest of his season?

Kicked 40-odd in the VFL as a HBF, Wing, HFF. He's small, probably not Werribee's out and out best player - Gribble for mine is better. However, Mannagh is much younger and much more explosive.

He will play AFL, but I don't know that he'd be any better than a Gibbons. He's about that size too (180cm/80kg)

 

[thylacine60]

gibbons is one of those names that in 12 months will never have existed, might already be there, other than the shadowy depths of blueseum

 

[Arr0w]

It's hard to accept, and it's an old cliche, but once a player enters the club they are selected by, where they were drafted becomes completely irrelevant.

I do think that Dow has the ability to be a solid AFL football player. At times during our winning period this year I felt he contributed better to our mix than Kennedy and even Hewett at times.
His issue is really his lack of flexibility. With Ed retiring, Hewett is really our only defense first midfielder, and Kennedy does have the potential to float forward (at times).

The only other fridge players that I can think of that have been spoken about this highly in the past have been Charlie Constable (we've seen how that played out), Kym LeBois... who kicked a really good goal in a preseason game once and people on this board probably still think he could be the next Eddie Betts, and now Elijah Hollands...

I was a Constable fan, but when you can see a lack of improvement in strengths and weaknesses from junior footy, you reassess a situation honestly

 

[JustaBattler]

If Carlton's mids were better field kicks- the whole speed debate wouldn't be a topic for discussion IMO.

As it is now - I don't trust any of our mids to make a dangerous kick work more than 2 /10 times - most of our turnovers are caused by poor kicking skills. Cerra is probably teh best field kick we have playing mid. On the outside, Acres is typical bang it long, Hollands is developing and Cottrell is ok at kick it long - and on the improve - none of them are going to be elite kicks though. Docherty is very iffy.

Our best kicks of the ball in general play are McGovern, Williams, Boyd and Weitering down back - ironically, both Harry and Charlie are very good field kicks and Martin is clever inside forward fifty -the defensive fifty kick should hit a good between the arcs kicker ( and we have none ) we get bogged down in transition because of this....instead we are reluing on outside overlap run to make progress- butthat allows teams to run back defensively...

Voss has elevated the team's attacking and defensive capability by adding Acres and Hollands to the outside because of their massive endurance running capabilities - along with Cottrell - but the ability to slice through defensive structures via bullet kicks is a missing component in Carlton's DNA.

Again - IMO far more important to the ability to increase speed of transfer from one end to the other - than running and far less taxing.

There is no one developing in 2's that is nay better than the above

 

[Soapy V]

My final comment re: Dow is like many players we have drafted during the last decade. We were very poor culturally and development wise. It’s only now improving.

Dow went away last pre season, got his own trainer and worked bloody hard to improve on his weaknesses. I saw a greatly improved player.

I thought he was a big part of our winning streak in the second half of the year especially when we had so many players out injured.

Is he Best 22? Probably not but he’s close and he provides a point of difference and IMO still has improvement in him. Sometimes I believe coaches look at weaknesses and not the strengths. Many many fringe players have left clubs and become Best 22 players and better.

He’s still only 23 and could play for 10 years.

I hope he stays and all it will take is Carlton to offer him a better deal as he loves the club.

Whatever happens I wish him success as he is a great kid who never complains and gives his best

 

[Blue__Balls]

Cornes is a bellend, but one thing he's brought me around on that's on his agenda is all these long term contracts going around now.

Pitto for 4 years was quite incredible. I'm not convinced I buy this "Pitto softens them up and TDK jumps over them" narrative that's around, to me TDK is much better as the no.1 ruckman. We've seen over a long period now that TDK is not a good forward so having 2 ruckman that can't play forward is limiting to an already slowish team. Further to Pitto is that his body already looks knackered, yet he's around for another 4 yrs.

I don't dislike Pittonet and think he's great for what he is, a solid workmanlike tap ruck, but 4 years? That's a lot when you have a budding young star just waiting to take over as no.1

It's a non-issue. Absolute non-issue.

4 years for Pitto gives us a decent ruckman locked in past the end of TDK's new contract, so if he bails in a couple of years we're not left completely bereft of mature rucks. It also offers no real obligation for us to play him if we don't want to, so if TDK surpasses him to the point of playing a lone hand, Pitto is just contracted depth (on not that much money). And in the event that we want to move him on, or he requests a trade for greater opportunities elsewhere (or any other reason), it gives us a stronger negotiating position.

 

[Soapy V]

If Carlton's mids were better field kicks- the whole speed debate wouldn't be a topic for discussion IMO.

As it is now - I don't trust any of our mids to make a dangerous kick work more than 2 /10 times - most of our turnovers are caused by poor kicking skills. Cerra is probably teh best field kick we have playing mid. On the outside, Acres is typical bang it long, Hollands is developing and Cottrell is ok at kick it long - and on the improve - none of them are going to be elite kicks though. Docherty is very iffy.

Our best kicks of the ball in general play are McGovern, Williams, Boyd and Weitering down back - ironically, both Harry and Charlie are very good field kicks and Martin is clever inside forward fifty -the defensive fifty kick should hit a good between the arcs kicker ( and we have none ) we get bogged down in transition because of this....instead we are reluing on outside overlap run to make progress- butthat allows teams to run back defensively...

Voss has elevated the team's attacking and defensive capability by adding Acres and Hollands to the outside because of their massive endurance running capabilities - along with Cottrell - but the ability to slice through defensive structures via bullet kicks is a missing component in Carlton's DNA.

Again - IMO far more important to the ability to increase speed of transfer from one end to the other - than running and far less taxing.

There is no one developing in 2's that is nay better than the above

Fair comments. I do have belief in the run and disposal of Cowan & Binns and hopefully E.Hollands

I hope like last year ball use is a priority in our recruiting and drafting

 

[thylacine60]

If Carlton's mids were better field kicks- the whole speed debate wouldn't be a topic for discussion IMO.

As it is now - I don't trust any of our mids to make a dangerous kick work more than 2 /10 times - most of our turnovers are caused by poor kicking skills. Cerra is probably teh best field kick we have playing mid. On the outside, Acres is typical bang it long, Hollands is developing and Cottrell is ok at kick it long - and on the improve - none of them are going to be elite kicks though. Docherty is very iffy.

Our best kicks of the ball in general play are McGovern, Williams, Boyd and Weitering down back - ironically, both Harry and Charlie are very good field kicks and Martin is clever inside forward fifty -the defensive fifty kick should hit a good between the arcs kicker ( and we have none ) we get bogged down in transition because of this....instead we are reluing on outside overlap run to make progress- butthat allows teams to run back defensively...

Voss has elevated the team's attacking and defensive capability by adding Acres and Hollands to the outside because of their massive endurance running capabilities - along with Cottrell - but the ability to slice through defensive structures via bullet kicks is a missing component in Carlton's DNA.

Again - IMO far more important to the ability to increase speed of transfer from one end to the other - than running and far less taxing.

There is no one developing in 2's that is nay better than the above

binns?

 

[BigFrizz36]

Cornes is a bellend, but one thing he's brought me around on that's on his agenda is all these long term contracts going around now.

Pitto for 4 years was quite incredible. I'm not convinced I buy this "Pitto softens them up and TDK jumps over them" narrative that's around, to me TDK is much better as the no.1 ruckman. We've seen over a long period now that TDK is not a good forward so having 2 ruckman that can't play forward is limiting to an already slowish team. Further to Pitto is that his body already looks knackered, yet he's around for another 4 yrs.

I don't dislike Pittonet and think he's great for what he is, a solid workmanlike tap ruck, but 4 years? That's a lot when you have a budding young star just waiting to take over as no.1

I thought pitto was excellent in the 1st quarter last week. Then Oscar got a hold of him. And Oscar absolutely monstered TDK.

Not sure that TDK one out in the ruck is a thing yet. He's progressing well, and hopefully next year he takes another step forward. Jack as a backup is sadly never going to cut it in finals as Oscar would just belt it forward 30 metres every time.

Ruck isn't a strength for us but it's not a glaring weakness in the home and away season. Maybe mirkov or O'Keeffe get closer next year?

 

[JustaBattler]

binns?

Dun know - but he isn't going to play on ball - it is Cripps/Walsh/Hewett/Kennedy and Cerra brigade you can add Dow to that as well - none of them are exceptional field kicks ..Cerra probably the most natural. Forget so called 'leg speed' kicking kills leg speed for meters gained at speed. It is Collingwood's #1 wood - they are stacked from defense to forward lines. Hard to beat that kind of get out of goal card - which is why they seem to be able to score quickly when they put the foot down on run and kick - and why they are so good at playing keeping off...

Carlton only looks 'fast' when we win an out the front CBB and go direct - this happens a fair bit when we are winning CBB - but more often than not our between the arcs play is a grind or a turnover to disadvantage - that is why Voss has instructed players to kick it long into forward fifty - the connection between midfielders makes it hard to create good/safe and fast controlled entries via multiple kicks.


The other negative about lack of kicking ability between the arcs is it limits attacking options but even worse it means most forward progress is relatively slow and allows for opposition to flood back. We rarely take a mark top of the arc most often it is the - yeah you can have it boundary pockets when the ball is worked downfield - or teh hail Mary super hero mark from Charlie/Harry when it is bombed.

I have no problem with bombing it long if the forwards are set fo rit and it happens fast - not allowing the opposition to flood back but when as is often the case it is telegraphed - as in the Brisbane and Mwlbournee games - it pretty much and the ball back a free pass.

Our mids have to work a lot lot harder for lower percentage return than some other teams do - especially Collingwood. ID Pendelbury had to shoulder teh type of work and hit load that Cripps has to - he would have retired a couple of years ago - broken.

btw: Thsi says nothing about Voss's so called 'game plan' which 'people' on here have gone on about ...it is all about Voss having to manufacture workarounds for skill sets we don't have - until we do.

I fully expected to see Cuningham/Martin and a fit Williams play significant on ball time this year...they are all better than average field kicks when they get going and all of them have a motor. Unortuanetly Cuningham is only getting back/Williams was out and a same for Maertin who was needed in the forward line- - which is another discussion in itself.

 

[Soapy V]

I thought pitto was excellent in the 1st quarter last week. Then Oscar got a hold of him. And Oscar absolutely monstered TDK.

Not sure that TDK one out in the ruck is a thing yet. He's progressing well, and hopefully next year he takes another step forward. Jack as a backup is sadly never going to cut it in finals as Oscar would just belt it forward 30 metres every time.

Ruck isn't a strength for us but it's not a glaring weakness in the home and away season. Maybe mirkov or O'Keeffe get closer next year?

I’m a believer in One ruck because of the extra flexibility and run it gives us

I strongly believe TDK will go to another level next year and Pittonet will be back up. Not a bad position to be in.

Where we could really improve is McKay doing some ruckwork and/or Lemmey & O’Keefe stepping up

I rate both and although raw if they step up we are going to be much better

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

If there are no surprises leaving, and we get Hollands, I think he goes.

Philp should absolutely stay. He's the point of difference our midfield is missing with blistering speed. If Cuningham can get 8 years on an AFL list surely this guy can get another one or two?

 

[swuzzlebubble]

If Carlton's mids were better field kicks- the whole speed debate wouldn't be a topic for discussion IMO.

As it is now - I don't trust any of our mids to make a dangerous kick work more than 2 /10 times - most of our turnovers are caused by poor kicking skills. Cerra is probably teh best field kick we have playing mid. On the outside, Acres is typical bang it long, Hollands is developing and Cottrell is ok at kick it long - and on the improve - none of them are going to be elite kicks though. Docherty is very iffy.

Our best kicks of the ball in general play are McGovern, Williams, Boyd and Weitering down back - ironically, both Harry and Charlie are very good field kicks and Martin is clever inside forward fifty -the defensive fifty kick should hit a good between the arcs kicker ( and we have none ) we get bogged down in transition because of this....instead we are reluing on outside overlap run to make progress- butthat allows teams to run back defensively...

Voss has elevated the team's attacking and defensive capability by adding Acres and Hollands to the outside because of their massive endurance running capabilities - along with Cottrell - but the ability to slice through defensive structures via bullet kicks is a missing component in Carlton's DNA.

Again - IMO far more important to the ability to increase speed of transfer from one end to the other - than running and far less taxing.

There is no one developing in 2's that is nay better than the above

I tried to say something like this after the Swans game in support of bringing in Boyd but got told apparently our kicking efficiency and contested marks percentage didn't support the argument

 

[Bletch]

You have a good handle on contracts

From your point of view, who do you think we’ll let go this year?

Can't say I know anything more than any other punter, but, think the magic number is 6-8 players off the list. Which means 3-5 new players via trade/draft.

Retire: Ed C, Plow (confirmed).
Delist: Honey, Philp, S Durdin (uncontracted)
Trade: Dow (uncontracted), Fisher (contracted), Young (contracted), LOB (contracted).

That's 9 names. My best guess is we lose 7 of these. If trades can't be found for LOB and Young, we keep them. We keep Durdin if Young goes. Philp a chance to re-rookie.

Cuningham and Marchbank are also currently uncontracted, but prob get 1 year deals each (or 2 years with a games clause on the 2nd year).

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Philp should absolutely stay.

What's his injury reoccurring likelihood?

 

[swuzzlebubble]

3-5 new players via trade/draft

Does that include rookies? Irish?

 

[reubsblues]

What would it take to get smith for bulldogs
He is the exact type of midfielder we need
Or do we just not have the cap space
Our list is at the point of being really particular in who we bring in with the players we look like losing our depth is going to take a good hit this off season which really worries me if we are hit with injuries nexr yr