List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[Blue_Fusion]

Wouldn't mind going after Konstanty as a Fogarty backup.

 

[JJBagger]

Cal Twomey says we aren’t in the race for Stengle. Dare say it’s due to $$

 

[Christou2Kouta]

My current thoughts on end-of-season changes.
To summarise:
Gone

• C Durdin (traded)
• J Carroll (traded)
• Mirkov r (delist)
• S Durdin r (delist)
• M Carroll r (delist) - maybe
• Akuei rB (delist)

Downgrade to Rookie List

• Cuningham
• Marchbank

Upgrade from Rookie List

• Boyd

National Draft

1. Travaglia (General Defender)
2. Ben Camporeale (Inside Mid)
3. Thomas Sims (KPF)

Rookie Draft

• Lucas Camporeale - maybe
• Duffy rB

Detailed thoughts:
Current list state has us with one excess category A rookie. To me, I think Mirkov seems the least likely category A rookie to make it so he would be the one that I would cull first.

Next easiest move is to delist Akuei from the category B list and I assume his place will be taken by Duffy. Monahan hasn't shown a lot but I don't think you pick a player from Ireland expecting instant performance so they would likely have at least a two year plan for him. KEEP.

Next, I believe Boyd needs to be upgraded? He would definitely deserve a senior list promotion.

From there decisions need to be made.
Rookie list - one available spot.
Senior list - one excess player

Let's look at the rookies first.

• Cincotta - would be eyeing off a potential upgrade but it's not compulsory yet so keep him as a rookie for one more season - KEEP
• O'Keeffe has shown enough - KEEP
• Lord was taken with an eye for the longer term and looked good on debut (plus we need midfielders on the list) - KEEP
• Durdin - finally getting on the park. Not particularly impressive so far but is there a better option out there for a break glass in case of emergency KPD? Possibly. Do we simply swing Lemmey back to be the KPD back up? DELIST
• Carroll - hasn't gotten on the park yet, could go either way depending on later list decisions. It's a cutthroat business.

So potentially two spots to play with on the rookie list.

Turning to the senior list

I understand that patience has run out with many injury-prone players on our list, but the "Waiting Room 3" (Marchbank, Cuningham, Martin) still seem a class above what they would likely be replaced with. We'd also be no chance of receiving anything resembling adequate compensation for their lost talents given they are out of contract. In a perfect world, I'd be happy to shift a couple of them down to the rookie list if that was possible. This would mean ditching Durdin and swapping with the Boyd spot from the rookie list for Marchbank and Cuningham theoretically. Re-sign Martin on a cheaper deal.

We now have one senior list spot free. At least 2, possibly 3 more spots need to be found.

It's not an easy proposition. No one demands delisting in my eyes so I'd prefer to get some value back if I need to free up a spot. I'm not super convinced on Young, Fantasia or Lemmey but I think it's likely they are kept. Players who might be tradeable for more opportunity include (not saying I want to trade them all, but they have talent and other clubs might be willing to stump up something of value to acquire them): Kennedy, J Carroll, Durdin, Motlop, Binns and Moir.

What happens here might determine the draft strategy. In my eyes we need one more general defender to start coming into the side to take over the Newman role so I'd take Tobie Travaglia with our first pick if he's available. He looks a gun with great leadership who would make a strong contribution at VFL level from day one. At this stage my (probably unrealistic?) dream draft hand would be:

• T. Travaglia (Bendigo Pioneers) - General Defender
• B Camporeale (Glenelg) - Inside Mid
• T. Sims (Northern Knights) - KPF/ruck
• L Camporeale (Glenelg) - Outside Mid (In my dreams he slips through to the rookie draft)

Drafting rationale

1. We have flexibility within our starting 23 but we don't have many back up general defenders. With our first draft pick, take Tobie Travaglia to groom a successor to Newman. (C. Durdin is one of many small forwards we drafted to fill a need that is looking more settled now with the success of Williams, Owies, Fogarty and Elijah. Means we can reconfigure the list to add another general defender where we have a couple of ageing players.)
2. Ditch Durdin from rookie list. Downgrade Marchbank to the rookie list. Swing Lemmey to key defence as he doesn't seem to have the aggression necessary to thrive as a key forward. We don't have any key forward depth so draft Thomas Sims to replace the developing KPF role on our list, with the added bonus that he could potentially be a good partner for De Koning with some ruck minutes.
3. Back up inside midfielders on the list are: Kennedy, Carroll, Lord, Cuningham. Cuningham's move to the rookie list, and Jack Carroll could be traded and his senior spot is filled by drafting B. Camporeale.
4. Outside midfielders we have are: Acres (is clearly safe), Docherty (can play inside but would expect a starting wingman role next year assuming recovery goes well) Hollands, Binns, Wilson. Is L Camporeale better than them? Hollands is playing 1s. Binns won the bnf in the VFL in his first year and I think we all agree that we're happy with Wilson. I'm not convinced he's worth a senior list spot but if we think he's better than Matt Carroll, we could delist him and take Campo in the rookie draft should he get there.

So I'm willing to trade Jack Carroll and Corey Durdin to improve our draft position to be able to take all three of Travaglia, Sims and Ben Campo in the National Draft. I wouldn't have a senior list spot available for Lucas unless they decide that Binns doesn't have as much scope to improve as we imagine from the outside and try to trade him.

 

[Stamos]

Can’t fathom trading Corey Durdin 5 months after re-singing him

 

[Stamos]

Cal Twomey says we aren’t in the race for Stengle. Dare say it’s due to $$

Also said he rates Ben around top 25, although bids tend to come later, and then Lucas a bit further back. Also said we’ll still be busy.

 

[Coona Blues]

Are you sure? EH and his management would have had a weak negotiation stance, given the news that came out during that timeframe

He was contracted at the Suns. We paid (at least) the contracted amount. Yes I am sure. Don’t know the $’s but best guess first digit closer to 4 than 2.

 

[Aphrodite]

YES Hectares 2027!

Blake a Blue for another two

Blake Acres has re-signed for another two years at IKON Park.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[Stamos]

Also on Gettable, Bot could be an option for Eagles, and Owies as an underrated trade option that clubs were sniffing around

 

[Bletch]

Can’t fathom trading Corey Durdin 5 months after re-singing him

Only way I see it is if he falls behind a few others by the end of the year and looks elsewhere for opportunity. But I don't think that's likely.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

My current thoughts on end-of-season changes.
To summarise:
Gone

• C Durdin (traded)
• J Carroll (traded)
• Mirkov r (delist)
• S Durdin r (delist)
• M Carroll r (delist) - maybe
• Akuei rB (delist)

Downgrade to Rookie List

• Cuningham
• Marchbank

Upgrade from Rookie List

• Boyd

National Draft

1. Travaglia (General Defender)
2. Ben Camporeale (Inside Mid)
3. Thomas Sims (KPF)

Rookie Draft

• Lucas Camporeale - maybe
• Duffy rB

Detailed thoughts:
Current list state has us with one excess category A rookie. To me, I think Mirkov seems the least likely category A rookie to make it so he would be the one that I would cull first.

Next easiest move is to delist Akuei from the category B list and I assume his place will be taken by Duffy. Monahan hasn't shown a lot but I don't think you pick a player from Ireland expecting instant performance so they would likely have at least a two year plan for him. KEEP.

Next, I believe Boyd needs to be upgraded? He would definitely deserve a senior list promotion.

From there decisions need to be made.
Rookie list - one available spot.
Senior list - one excess player

Let's look at the rookies first.

• Cincotta - would be eyeing off a potential upgrade but it's not compulsory yet so keep him as a rookie for one more season - KEEP
• O'Keeffe has shown enough - KEEP
• Lord was taken with an eye for the longer term and looked good on debut (plus we need midfielders on the list) - KEEP
• Durdin - finally getting on the park. Not particularly impressive so far but is there a better option out there for a break glass in case of emergency KPD? Possibly. Do we simply swing Lemmey back to be the KPD back up? DELIST
• Carroll - hasn't gotten on the park yet, could go either way depending on later list decisions. It's a cutthroat business.

So potentially two spots to play with on the rookie list.

Turning to the senior list

I understand that patience has run out with many injury-prone players on our list, but the "Waiting Room 3" (Marchbank, Cuningham, Martin) still seem a class above what they would likely be replaced with. We'd also be no chance of receiving anything resembling adequate compensation for their lost talents given they are out of contract. In a perfect world, I'd be happy to shift a couple of them down to the rookie list if that was possible. This would mean ditching Durdin and swapping with the Boyd spot from the rookie list for Marchbank and Cuningham theoretically. Re-sign Martin on a cheaper deal.

We now have one senior list spot free. At least 2, possibly 3 more spots need to be found.

It's not an easy proposition. No one demands delisting in my eyes so I'd prefer to get some value back if I need to free up a spot. I'm not super convinced on Young, Fantasia or Lemmey but I think it's likely they are kept. Players who might be tradeable for more opportunity include (not saying I want to trade them all, but they have talent and other clubs might be willing to stump up something of value to acquire them): Kennedy, J Carroll, Durdin, Motlop, Binns and Moir.

What happens here might determine the draft strategy. In my eyes we need one more general defender to start coming into the side to take over the Newman role so I'd take Tobie Travaglia with our first pick if he's available. He looks a gun with great leadership who would make a strong contribution at VFL level from day one. At this stage my (probably unrealistic?) dream draft hand would be:

• T. Travaglia (Bendigo Pioneers) - General Defender
• B Camporeale (Glenelg) - Inside Mid
• T. Sims (Northern Knights) - KPF/ruck
• L Camporeale (Glenelg) - Outside Mid (In my dreams he slips through to the rookie draft)

Drafting rationale

1. We have flexibility within our starting 23 but we don't have many back up general defenders. With our first draft pick, take Tobie Travaglia to groom a successor to Newman. (C. Durdin is one of many small forwards we drafted to fill a need that is looking more settled now with the success of Williams, Owies, Fogarty and Elijah. Means we can reconfigure the list to add another general defender where we have a couple of ageing players.)
2. Ditch Durdin from rookie list. Downgrade Marchbank to the rookie list. Swing Lemmey to key defence as he doesn't seem to have the aggression necessary to thrive as a key forward. We don't have any key forward depth so draft Thomas Sims to replace the developing KPF role on our list, with the added bonus that he could potentially be a good partner for De Koning with some ruck minutes.
3. Back up inside midfielders on the list are: Kennedy, Carroll, Lord, Cuningham. Cuningham's move to the rookie list, and Jack Carroll could be traded and his senior spot is filled by drafting B. Camporeale.
4. Outside midfielders we have are: Acres (is clearly safe), Docherty (can play inside but would expect a starting wingman role next year assuming recovery goes well) Hollands, Binns, Wilson. Is L Camporeale better than them? Hollands is playing 1s. Binns won the bnf in the VFL in his first year and I think we all agree that we're happy with Wilson. I'm not convinced he's worth a senior list spot but if we think he's better than Matt Carroll, we could delist him and take Campo in the rookie draft should he get there.

So I'm willing to trade Jack Carroll and Corey Durdin to improve our draft position to be able to take all three of Travaglia, Sims and Ben Campo in the National Draft. I wouldn't have a senior list spot available for Lucas unless they decide that Binns doesn't have as much scope to improve as we imagine from the outside and try to trade him.

Cincotta has already been given another year

 

[macky99]

Cal Twomey says we aren’t in the race for Stengle. Dare say it’s due to $$

Also possible that we don't consider him to be worth close to $800k based on one good season.

Based on Austin's history he may see other better potential Value options.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Also on Gettable, Bot could be an option for Eagles, and Owies as an underrated trade option that clubs were sniffing around

Totally agree with both. Eagles likely to be active on the trade front this year if you believe the reports that they're chasing Baker, Curtin, Busslinger, Bolton etc - so not sure what kind of trade currency they'd have.

You'd imagine it'd be a future pick, possibly a 3rd rounder - but you also wonder what Owies' trade currency would be.

 

[JJBagger]

Totally agree with both. Eagles likely to be active on the trade front this year if you believe the reports that they're chasing Baker, Curtin, Busslinger, Bolton etc - so not sure what kind of trade currency they'd have.

You'd imagine it'd be a future pick, possibly a 3rd rounder - but you also wonder what Owies' trade currency would be.

Owies is an UFA isn’t he? Cat B rookie that’s out of contract

 

[JJBagger]

Also possible that we don't consider him to be worth close to $800k based on one good season.

Based on Austin's history he may see other better potential Value options.

That’s what I was getting at. The word is that Stengle will just go to the highest bidder. We aren’t in the market for that sort of deal

 

[Bletch]

Owies is an UFA isn’t he? Cat B rookie that’s out of contract

No, he is a senior listed player out of contract. He isn't a free agent.

 

[Worm4]

Also possible that we don't consider him to be worth close to $800k based on one good season.

Based on Austin's history he may see other better potential Value options.

Motlop will fill that void. He is only a baby

 

[Christou2Kouta]

Can’t fathom trading Corey Durdin 5 months after re-singing him

Lots of surprising things get done in the trade period. Collingwood giving away Grundy after signing a long term deal was probably more unfathomable.

I think the fact that he’s contracted gives you more bargaining power in a trade which means better value if there are a couple of sides who are interested.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[DangerousD]

Totally agree with both. Eagles likely to be active on the trade front this year if you believe the reports that they're chasing Baker, Curtin, Busslinger, Bolton etc - so not sure what kind of trade currency they'd have.

You'd imagine it'd be a future pick, possibly a 3rd rounder - but you also wonder what Owies' trade currency would be.

Freo have loaded up on local kids the past few drafts and this year have 3 first round picks, they will be really aggressive chasing these players.

WC seem real conservative at trade time, haven’t moved on anyone to bring in any more kids.

 

[sweethoney]

Also said he rates Ben around top 25, although bids tend to come later, and then Lucas a bit further back. Also said we’ll still be busy.

Hopefully the twins both slide like the Davey twins a couple of years ago

 

[gbatman]

Here is what I think will happen list management wise.

Draft picks
Round 1, 2, 4, 4, 4.

Delist
Lemmy
S Durdin
Akuei r
Mirkov r

Trade or place on rookie list
Binns

Trade if not delist
Cuningham

Moved rookie list
Binns, Marchbank

IN
Pick 1, Camporeale, Camporeale, Pick R4, Pick R4, Rookie, Duffy

OUT
Lemmy, S Durdin, Cuningham, Akuei, Mirkov


Other List Changes
Young to be traded or delisted if we bring in a mature key defender.
O'Keefe to be delisted if we pick up another ruck or want another rookie spot.
Matt Carroll to be delisted and given a VFL contract, should we need rookie spots.

Notes
I think we may look at trading Carroll and Binns to gain more draft picks if we need that. Camporeale x2, R1 pick, Lord. We have midfielder depth so that's probably where we make space if we really have to. Depends on the new draft rules.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I’m not sure about this, whenever I see this line of thought, I think of Real Madrid or Barcelona or any big soccer club, the culture is the relentless pursuit of silverware, if a player is no longer at the level required, the culture instilled by the club over time, dictates they are moved on.

I don’t feel this regarding Doc by the way, I just think AFL clubs are still immature with how they deal with ageing players, it’s a bit soft imo.

The names of players, their hardships, how many games they have played, should make for a good media story but when it comes to list management, output should be the overriding factor

They don't have salary caps or drafts. They only answer to cash. Of course they have to manage it differently. And loyalty does reward those clubs more than they like to admit/ realise too.

 

[Stamos]

Lots of surprising things get done in the trade period. Collingwood giving away Grundy after signing a long term deal was probably more unfathomable.

I think the fact that he’s contracted gives you more bargaining power in a trade which means better value if there are a couple of sides who are interested.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Grundy re-signed at the Filth in January 2020, didn’t get traded until the end of 2022.

How many players have been traded less than 6 months after extending?

 

[9874123]

I understand that patience has run out with many injury-prone players on our list, but the "Waiting Room 3" (Marchbank, Cuningham, Martin) still seem a class above what they would likely be replaced with. We'd also be no chance of receiving anything resembling adequate compensation for their lost talents given they are out of contract.

Good post but I've got to disagree with you here. List spots are really tight, the compensation we'd get from moving on Cuningham is that we replace a non-contributor with a late-pick who could end up being anything. You can't win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket. We'd be passing up the opportunity to get another Boyd, Cincotta, Fogarty Owies etc. on the list.

Finding someone who could become a long-term player for us is obviously easier said than done but the list management team has been good in this area so I would think the expected value from this strategy is higher than keeping Cuningham given we know his production.

 

[bradfisher14]

Here is what I think will happen list management wise.

Draft picks
Round 1, 2, 4, 4, 4.

Delist
Lemmy
S Durdin
Akuei r
Mirkov r

Trade or place on rookie list
Binns

Trade if not delist
Cuningham

Moved rookie list
Binns, Marchbank

IN
Pick 1, Camporeale, Camporeale, Pick R4, Pick R4, Rookie, Duffy

OUT
Lemmy, S Durdin, Cuningham, Akuei, Mirkov


Other List Changes
Young to be traded or delisted if we bring in a mature key defender.
O'Keefe to be delisted if we pick up another ruck or want another rookie spot.
Matt Carroll to be delisted and given a VFL contract, should we need rookie spots.

Notes
I think we may look at trading Carroll and Binns to gain more draft picks if we need that. Camporeale x2, R1 pick, Lord. We have midfielder depth so that's probably where we make space if we really have to. Depends on the new draft rules.

Lemmey OOC 2025
Young OOC 2026
Binns OOC 2026

I'm almost certain that none will be delisted/moved to the rookie list.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Good post but I've got to disagree with you here. List spots are really tight, the compensation we'd get from moving on Cuningham is that we replace a non-contributor with a late-pick who could end up being anything. You can't win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket. We'd be passing up the opportunity to get another Boyd, Cincotta, Fogarty Owies etc. on the list.

Finding someone who could become a long-term player for us is obviously easier said than done but the list management team has been good in this area so I would think the expected value from this strategy is higher than keeping Cuningham given we know his production.

And then there’s the salary cap on top of your points.