List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[charred_fate]

Yep; we'd do the Judd style deal only for it to fail again, and people will still be calling for the same again in the next 20 to 25 years. The draft fails us because we fail it.

It’s nothing like the Judd trade. We are on the cusp of being unstoppable. Trac would likely get us there. With Judd, we were desperate to be relevant and made the wrong call on who to trade, which was obvious to many of us at the time.

Cripps, Trac and Walsh is genuinely in the conversation for greatest midfield of all time. It’s without question a Premiership winning midfield. Trac could easily bag goals playing up forward too.

I can almost guarantee he’ll have won the hearts of all Bluebaggers by the end of the opening game of the season.

I bet if Trac comes, it makes it all the more likely that Houston and Aleer want to join as well - they’ll be seeing Premierships.

 

[Revenant1965]

It's just me, and I'm only sort of awake at the moment... I think Trac would instantly make us a better team, but question is cost. Just me, but if it is untenable for Petracca to remain at Melbourne, and if Petracca is the one who wants to play elsewhere, wouldn't the club he'd be potentially going to hold something of a whip hand? I think if Trac wants to play for us, he'd have to a significant cut to his salary. And if Melbourne do need to move him, they'd have to be accepting of taking a lower (not ridiculously lower, though) return simply by accepting draft picks (and would our 1st this year, plus F1, with some draft picks back from Melbourne, possibly even their F2)? Yeah, it's early and I need to go back to sleep...

 

[Malifice]

Yep; we'd do the Judd style deal only for it to fail again, and people will still be calling for the same again in the next 20 to 25 years. The draft fails us because we fail it.

We've already failed it. While we got 2015 spot on and knocked it out of the park, and Walsh picked himself (albeit any player in the top 7 of that draft picked themselves), Dow, SPS and Stocker were all busts (for us at least). Most of our players brought in have been from other clubs (Acres, Hollands, Saad, Hewitt, Cerra etc). DeKonig is the notable exception in 2017, and to a lesser extent Oliie Hollands.

Not saying blokes we've taken won't come on, but we couldn't really afford to blow 3 x 1st rounders in 3 consecutive years, after blowing most of the 1st rounders we took in the preceding 10 years.

We're short a KPD (we have a few years of Weitering and McGovern left), none of our small forwards have kicked on yet leaving us having to draft Fantasia as a stop gap, and we're missing that outside/ classy powerful mid type for Cripps to get the ball to.

We also lack a bit of speed, but look to be drafting a few speedy flankers over the next few years to make up for it.

We're not doing our due dilligence if we leave Petracca (a top 10 player in the AFL, and a proven big game player) on the table without giving it a good old fashioned shake.

We can get at least one Camporeale boy in this year with a collection of late 2nd and 3rd rounders remember.

The window is open now. Getting Trac in would have us firm flag favorites next year, and for the 2 years after that.

 

[Manhattanite]

Lloydy claims to have spoken to 'a few' Senior Melbourne players and based on what they've told him, it's gone too far and he's all but gone:



We need to get him.

Sam McClures reporting has been really good for the club - he’s helped bring Melbourne and its players against Petracca and it makes it more likely now that they will be willing to trade him without getting someone like McKay back.

As others have noted we could trade a few of our B grade players and get enough draft currency that when coupled with our current and future firsts we can make them a really good offer with points the equivalent of first pick or thereabouts




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[Malifice]

Sam McClures reporting has been really good for the club - he’s helped bring Melbourne and its players against Petracca and it makes it more likely now that they will be willing to trade him without getting someone like McKay back.

As others have noted we could trade a few of our B grade players and get enough draft currency that when coupled with our current and future firsts we can make them a really good offer with points the equivalent of first pick or thereabouts




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They dont want points, we do.

They'll want two firsts, at a bare minimum.

We technically have them (this years, and nexts) but they're not low enough, but could look to upgrade both by trading them down for teams that want extra points.

Pitto has some trade value (rucks always do). Ditto Owies (and we back Motlop to come on next year, or Williams to continue in the role). Martin and Carroll could nab third rounders or thereabouts and the WA sides have shown interest in both.

Cap space is the bigger headache over picks. We have a plan in place for Houston so we can likely afford to spend a bit, but not Petracca levels of money (unless we backend it heavily).

Worst case we lose McKay and we're left with TDK and Curnow up forward, with Silvagni back, along with Williams (who has looked good) and Petracca (who doesnt mind a goal and an assist).

It's still a small forward short but it's not exactly impotent.

 

[rf04]

Petracca appears to be having a mental meltdown, not convinced he ever plays again.

Would not touch Petracca without some post injury/trauma exposed form. No to the trade this year and reconsider his value in 12 months. Demons may well be in a different bargaining position by then. He’s never been in our list management plans so why risk the disruption at this point in time.

 

[RAPPA]

If they pull this off which I’d rather they don’t if it’s at the expense of losing H, then they need to make they do a few other trades to resolve backline weaknesses etc.

We’d all all like Trac in navy blue but there’s no way it gets done by inflating Cerra’s value and thinking the likes of Martin and Carroll can pull the wool over their eyes.

TDK is contracted to the end of 2025. He’s gonna demand big money and depending how we are going, he might well entertain a move. Would not surprise me if the Dees then throw up his name as an alternative

 

[Foucault1989]

If this was any other club, Lyon would have the opposite view. He is the most biased commentator in the football media. You can see how personally he is taking this.

 

[Foucault1989]

I find it hard to believe we would put it to either player.
That’s how you **** up a club.

I find it hard to believe anyone has seriously asked Curnow....of course the answers a no. Melbourne is a sinking ship, we play in front of big crowds

 

[branedotorg]

Call me crazy but I’d have a look at Nick Hind

19

Nick Hind

Age

30

Ht

180cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

3.5

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

1.9

4star

MG

117.0

2star

D

9.5

2star

K

4.0

1star

HB

5.5

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

2.0

3star

MG

117.0

2star

D

10.2

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

as a DFA

Essendon's Nick Hind makes bad blunder during Port Adelaide clash

The Bombers were not at their best and Seven AFL commentator Brian Taylor was baffled by one decision made by the team's sub.

7news.com.au

 

[HarryFlashman]

Call me crazy but I’d have a look at Nick Hind as a DFA

Would be a free throw at the stumps but he’s exactly the player we really don’t need.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

Trading McKay - absurd and wont happen. Maybe for 3 first round picks when the AFL open up that possibility next year (and from a club we think will be shit for that long like a Richmond or West Coast)

Hawks forward line - lets see how they go longer term. So far they have done less than we did 2nd half of last year.

Owies - we wouldn't be selling high, he is out of contract. Though if someone offers him a decent contract, I wouldn't be going overs to keep him (in saying that I reckon he ends up staying)

Trading Hewett - wont happen. Wouldn't get any more than a 2nd rounder and he is worth more than that to us. He isn't on huge coin either.

Gov - wouldn't get enough in return to justify him going. He has still played around 20 games each of the last 2 years. I can't see us getting enough in return for him to justify letting him go.

PS - Owies is consistently our 3rd best forward - clutch goal kicker.

Why the hell would we let him go?

Because he’s not fast enough, doesn’t kick crazy goals like the second coming of Eddie Betts?

He kicks bloody goals people, as a small forward and is good further up the ground.

No way I’d let him go - especially for peanuts.

 

[HarryFlashman]

Would be interesting to see what Adelaide would cough up for a key forward.
We have a history at pantsing them at the trade table & it looks like they still have a high level of “civil unrest” at the club. They just might be dumb enough to sell the farm for a marque forward.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Highly doubt we’d give up Harry McKay

10

Harry Mckay

Age

26

Ht

200cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.9

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

2.4

2star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.4

5star

D

6.6

1star

K

4.6

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

2star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.8

3star

G

2.0

5star

…

IMO, TDK or Cerra would make the most sense to form part of any deal..

Both desirable, both OOC at the end of 2025, both probably want more $$$…

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Cerra would actually make some sense considering he is ooc next year and Melbourne could offer a lot more money then we could.
If we lose out first final then Cerra and our first wouldn’t be too far off.

Petracca is an attacking midfielder though so he won’t help us one bit defensively on the spread where sides beat us plus and we won’t be able to afford more then a C grade KPD. It’s a tough one

 

[skadoosh]

“Absolutely no way”: Manager of Carlton forward McKay shuts down Melbourne rumours

The Blues forward has been linked in a possible mega trade.

www.sen.com.au

The manager of Harry McKay

10

Harry Mckay

Age

26

Ht

200cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.9

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

2.4

2star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.4

5star

D

6.6

1star

K

4.6

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

2star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.8

3star

G

2.0

5star

has emphatically shut down any chance the Carlton forward will be traded.

“There is absolutely no way Harry would consider going to Melbourne,” Trotter said.

 

[The Sultan]

Highly doubt we’d give up Harry McKay…

IMO, TDK or Cerra would make the most sense to form part of any deal..

Both desirable, both OOC at the end of 2025, both probably want more $$$…

Dees have lost two gun ruckman (jackson / grundy) , trying to play the two ruck set up.. doubt theyd go back a third time.

 

[The Sultan]

PS - Owies is consistently our 3rd best forward - clutch goal kicker.

Why the hell would we let him go?

Because he’s not fast enough, doesn’t kick crazy goals like the second coming of Eddie Betts?

He kicks bloody goals people, as a small forward and is good further up the ground.

No way I’d let him go - especially for peanuts.

agree need to keep Owies, reliable small(ish) forwards are a worth their weight, in a good side i.e. Jamie Elliot / Willie (love ya man ), Watson

Love the blues to make a play for Connor MacDonald, we were going to take him but Hawks got him one pick before, kids a gun player.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

PS - Owies is consistently our 3rd best forward - clutch goal kicker.

Why the hell would we let him go?

Because he’s not fast enough, doesn’t kick crazy goals like the second coming of Eddie Betts?

He kicks bloody goals people, as a small forward and is good further up the ground.

No way I’d let him go - especially for peanuts.

Owies good further up the ground? He'd be up there with the worst players outside 50 in the comp. Averages 8 touches a game...

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Anyone who thinks going for Petracca isn't worth it or that he's not worth giving up Cerra has absolutely lost their mind.

Cerra yes, McKay or any other of the guns we have no.

Having said that, I’d be asking TDK to sign a long term contract as soon as the season is done.
If his management meanders then he could be one I’d think about using in a deal.

Free agency end of next year, he needs to commit this year so we keep him for the long term, which is what I really want, or we extract real value in someone like Petracca this year instead of risking a mid first round pick only


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[Monty1978]

When played as a deep forward in 2021, McKay won the Coleman medal.

When Curnow returned in 2022, McKay got pushed up the ground and into a different role (initially because Curnow was still proppy on his knee and couldn't cover the ground). Big H ended up playing a lot further from goal, running a lot more, and getting lower quality opportunities as the second forward. Had to deal with a public wringing over his goal-kicking 'yips'. Is now also having to play as a backup ruck, which you don't do to your primary forward.

If he goes to Melbourne, he gets paid to be 'the man'. Gets to play out of the goal-square, run less, get more shots, probably win another Coleman at some point.

I have no doubt he's happy at Carlton, got plenty of mates, playing finals footy and he seems a pretty easy-going bloke... but there's something here that he must think about from time to time, right?

There's more to it as well, from a Carlton perspective:

• This core group has been together 9 years, and hasn't managed a top 4 regular season finish in that time. Haven't even cracked 14 wins in a season. With Cripps now aged 29... at some point you have to say that maybe this core isn't it, and it's worth shaking it up a bit
• Curnow and McKay are both in the same draft class, as is Weitering, which means that all three of Carlton's key position players are the same age... they've peaked together, but will also all get old together... maybe not ideal to have your entire spine so close in age

It seems worth at least a thought on all sides. Given Petracca wants out, and the speed that H was thrown up right across the media... it wouldn't surprise me if multiple parties (the club, H's management, Petracca's management) are dropping this out there across a bye week to gauge how it plays. I mean, a trade this big can't just come out of the blue - you have to at least sow the seeds for fans of all teams.

All parties can always walk it back from here. Melbourne can just refuse to deal. We can laugh it off. Harry can refuse to go. If we go on another finals run, we've got a clear 'out' to walk it back with the current group. If the deal is too difficult, Petracca has 5 million reasons to stick with Melbourne. If this just ends up leverage for Melbourne to get a better deal elsewhere ("Hey Essendon... Carlton are offering a Coleman medal winning forward. We're starting this conversation with Caddy and 3 first-rounders on the table, and going from there") then it's worked out for the Demons, and maybe gives them options to start talks on something else with us (Cerra?).

Would I do it if I was the club? Hmmm... I'd at least have the conversation. I imagine Melbourne want more than just Harry straight up, and if so, that's too much for me. But we have to at least talk it through with Vossy and run some medicals on Petracca before we hang up the phone...

Good post mate .. well thought out and. Never thought about like that … makes me wonder if we lose next week … we do need change .. time is ticking

 

[DangerousD]

The leverage really comes from how big a stink Trac is going to kick up if the Dees refuse to trade him and how big a stink he's already caused.

If what Lloyd said about speaking to some of his teammates and them saying they think it's best if he goes to then things are clearly in a bad way.

If the Dees know it's toxic to keep him they'll deal him whether they want to or not

So what would you offer if it us?

 

[DangerousD]

If we stay at our current position.

Pick 11+2024 2nd (via trade)+F1 gets it done imo.

Im doing that deal.

 

[DangerousD]

Yep; we'd do the Judd style deal only for it to fail again, and people will still be calling for the same again in the next 20 to 25 years. The draft fails us because we fail it.

The Judd deal was a good one for both clubs, it wasn’t the fault of the deal that our list management, drafting and recruiting was a massive failure the entire time Judd was here.

We could have offered 1 and 3 which would have been way better off but everybody overvalues draft picks.

 

[T2B_]

Dan Houston wants to play for us. Would rather we invested in him.

OK. But what about Albert Proud?