List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[ctwenty1]

Motlop, Durdin and Fantasia in particular, would probably be the worst 3 comp in the finals series. We wouldn't have a single player in the top 15 smalls in the finals. Hawks rolling with 5 better than any of ours.

So much of modern footy is smalls who can roll up, pressure and help in transition. Fog does it well. Owies at least is smart enough to sneak a goal or two. The rest are dreadful.

Expect the rules to change then

Watching short people running around is not entertaining

 

[ctwenty1]

He had heart though, and he added momentum and ball movement immediately.

Don’t disagree, but I feel they were obviously concerned about him holding up

Imagine he starts when we are getting belted and he goes down.

No issue with him being sub

 

[TENACIOUS]

Motlop, Durdin, Orazio, Owies

Name me 4 worse small forwards in the competition.

Not the only issues we had out there tonight and Owies was suspended but dear god every teams half forwards put us to the sword time and time again while ours weave daisy chains and trip over their own arses

Sure…

Motlop, Durdin, Orazio, Owies, Williams & Fogarty

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Don’t disagree, but I feel they were obviously concerned about him holding up

Imagine he starts when we are getting belted and he goes down.

No issue with him being sub

Shouldn't have played if they were concerned about him going down. The second guessing wasn't very professional.

 

[ctwenty1]

Shouldn't have played if they were concerned about him going down. The second guessing wasn't very professional.

But it was an elimination final

 

[Blue1980]

Won’t be Hewitt…..

Kennedy might request one after tonight…was absolutely filthy

Won't be any of them. We may change up the mix here and there, but I doubt any will be going unless we can somehow turn it into quality small/mid size forwards, a burst midfielder or a KPD.

Mainly small/mid size forwards of at least passable standard would be the first priority.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

But it was an elimination final

You pass a fitness test, you are fit. If they made him sub because they weren't sure, they've already failed. The only thing that would have made any sense to me is if they had some sort of plan to play two fresh ruckmen for a half each. Not a great tactic, but it would have made some tactical sense. You don't know when you will get an injury. It could come in the first five minutes, and the concerns of his ability to get through the game would still be there.

I just can't fathom a ruckman as sub for any reason.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Won’t be Hewitt…..

Kennedy might request one after tonight…was absolutely filthy

Fair enough too. 99 Carlton games. He's just mucked around too much. He isn't going to bring in a big draft haul though.

 

[ctwenty1]

Good post, yes disturbing. I’d suggest there’s not much juice left in this grouping.

Urgent intervention is required and trading named players is the way to go. Fans are way too attached to players like Curnow; time to trade him out.

It’s a full rebuild not a mini version. Hit the draft, forget Rosas and co - how many mediocre recruits do we require from other clubs?

Unfortunately whilst Voss is coaching we are buggered.

A full rebuild

Ok

 

[Blue1980]

Our list is a shambles. I don't rate Nick Austin but if the club is serious we need to make 15 changes. We are better off taking some punts with vfl and high dry picks than continue with status quo

15?!? That is 2003 type stuff, after there was basically a player mutiny under Pagan and we were total garbage.

Will be probably 7-8 changes. Minimum gone will be Marchy, Cuningham, Martin, S Durdin, M Carroll, Akuei (probably)

Then on top of that Jack Carroll might go back to WA and play 20+ games a year in an awful West Coast side.

Maybe Motlop or Owies could go in a trade, though I expect both to stay. The fact we contracted Corey Durdin until 2026 is just bizarre. Unless Fantasia retires, he is around for another year with his contract. Hope against hope he has a decent pre-season and is better, but 95% chance what we have seen from him this year is as good as its going to get.

We aren't in too bad a shape list wise. Replacing 5 of the permanently injured guys with players who are available at least 75-80% of the time will instantly make us a better side.

 

[Blue1980]

So at the start of the 2025 season or just after, the top of our age profile looks like this:

32 Newman
31 Docherty
30 Saad
30 Williams
30 Cripps
29 Acres
29 Fantasia
29 Hewett
28 Pittonet
28 Curnow
27 Owies
27 Kennedy
27 Weitering
27 Silvagni
27 McKay

This doesn't include likely delistings and trades.

We have a major decision to make. Are we having a proper go at a flag next year, or are going to do a mini rebuild before Tassie comes in, and accept that many of these players won't be at their peak, or still playing when we are ready again?

If we are going to make a charge, major changes need to happen, and hopefully some players are frustrated enough to look elsewhere and give us some draft currency. This group will not get it done without a major injection of talent.

Whatever we decide, we have to trade. We can not trust this team with this game plan. Something has to give.

The answer I can give you already - we are going for a flag, but with an eye on the future as well.

The side still isn't that old, we are a top 8 side (the last 3 years we are about the level of a Western Bulldogs) so players will be interested in coming to us as well.

I don't think we have any players next year who will be falling away next year due to age, the worry is guys like Williams, Gov, Doch and even Saad get more injury prone again getting into their 30s. Players are usually playing longer now, and Cats and Pies have been 2 of the older premiership sides ever, so I don't think the age demographics of the list are a huge concern.

 

[ctwenty1]

15?!? That is 2003 type stuff, after there was basically a player mutiny under Pagan and we were total garbage.

Will be probably 7-8 changes. Minimum gone will be Marchy, Cuningham, Martin, S Durdin, M Carroll, Akuei (probably)

Then on top of that Jack Carroll might go back to WA and play 20+ games a year in an awful West Coast side.

Maybe Motlop or Owies could go in a trade, though I expect both to stay. The fact we contracted Corey Durdin until 2026 is just bizarre. Unless Fantasia retires, he is around for another year with his contract. Hope against hope he has a decent pre-season and is better, but 95% chance what we have seen from him this year is as good as its going to get.

We aren't in too bad a shape list wise. Replacing 5 of the permanently injured guys with players who are available at least 75-80% of the time will instantly make us a better side.

I suspect Kennedy will be spending less time in the seniors in an attempt to get binns and lord game time

Not sure where kemp should play. He has been average up forward of late and wasn’t convinced of him down back. Was hoping he could take Martin’s role but not convinced.

Over Williams - another one that can spend more time in the twos so youngsters get a go

I suspect a few may remain on the list taht we would rather let go but if a better option doesn’t exist you are kind of stuck with what we have

Hope twos improve in 2025

 

[Blue1980]

I guess this is where we disagree - I think McKay and Curnow do an extraordinary amount of work outside of just kicking goals. McKay is the best up-the-ground forward in the comp outside of Jeremy Cameron whilst Curnow is one of the best field kicks in the comp.

Bagging Mckay and Charlie is just silly.

This is what happens when a side isn't meeting expectations though, people begin wanting to get rid of everyone.

Charlie I dont think was right much of the year, and still nearly got 60 goals. Harry had a great year. Owies did ok with over 30 goals, the issue is the combo of small/medium forwards we have up there are VFL standard, aside from maybe Fog who give elite pressure. I think you can afford to carry one of a Motlop/Durdin/Fantasia/Cottrell in the side, but running with all of them isn't going to cut it. When you compare us to the rest of the top 8 sides, or even the rest of the top 15 sides, we have the worst small/medium forward group in the comp.

 

[carlton_99]

Bagging Mckay and Charlie is just silly.

This is what happens when a side isn't meeting expectations though, people begin wanting to get rid of everyone.

Charlie I dont think was right much of the year, and still nearly got 60 goals. Harry had a great year. Owies did ok with over 30 goals, the issue is the combo of small/medium forwards we have up there are VFL standard, aside from maybe Fog who give elite pressure. I think you can afford to carry one of a Motlop/Durdin/Fantasia/Cottrell in the side, but running with all of them isn't going to cut it. When you compare us to the rest of the top 8 sides, or even the rest of the top 15 sides, we have the worst small/medium forward group in the comp.

Motlop/Durdin/Fantasia in the same side is just never going to work - you are right it's one with Fogarty and Williams and that's it. Obviously if we were to draft another small or trade one in that may change.

 

[Blue1980]

Shambolically

We can find the next Jeff Kenna, Adrian Deluca, Ricky Mott, Digby Morrell, Glen Bowyer etc.

 

[blues4flag]

Expect the rules to change then

Watching short people running around is not entertaining

Hawks are a brilliant watch with their brigade of smalls.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Our small forwards are below average and we don’t have a lot of key defender depth.
Until we address those deficiencies we won’t achieve anything.

 

[Juddrockz]

Motlop/Durdin/Fantasia in the same side is just never going to work - you are right it's one with Fogarty and Williams and that's it. Obviously if we were to draft another small or trade one in that may change.

If these smalls dont know the craft yet or refuse to apply pressure in the forward line then get rid of them. I've lost count how many games this season when the ball goes to ground in the forward 50 and the smalls are nowhere to be seen. Just unacceptable.

 

[Blue1980]

I suspect Kennedy will be spending less time in the seniors in an attempt to get binns and lord game time

Not sure where kemp should play. He has been average up forward of late and wasn’t convinced of him down back. Was hoping he could take Martin’s role but not convinced.

Over Williams - another one that can spend more time in the twos so youngsters get a go

I suspect a few may remain on the list taht we would rather let go but if a better option doesn’t exist you are kind of stuck with what we have

Hope twos improve in 2025

I'm not really sure what Kemp is, there isn't really a role for him in defence with Cowan and Gov back there. 3rd forward might be his go, at this stage unless he improves he is just handy backup for 2025. He doesn't have anywhere near the skill or forward craft of Jack Martin sadly. He is basically Jack Silvagni standard forward at best, without versatility to ruck.

Kennedy can pinch hit up forward, and there are always injuries, so he will probably play a fair bit.

We were smashed by injury this year on top of 5 guys who never play, so the VFL side was always going to struggle.

Williams, I don't think his body can hold up to the rigors of AFL, its been proven over and over again. He is only contracted for next year, will be touch and go if he gets another contract beyond that.

 

[Blue1980]

If these smalls dont know the craft yet or refuse to apply pressure in the forward line then get rid of them. I've lost count how many games this season when the ball goes to ground in the forward 50 and the smalls are nowhere to be seen. Just unacceptable.

Pretty sad that Owies pretty much provides more than those 3 combined.

 

[blues4flag]

I'm not really sure what Kemp is, there isn't really a role for him in defence with Cowan and Gov back there. 3rd forward might be his go, at this stage unless he improves he is just handy backup for 2025. He doesn't have anywhere near the skill or forward craft of Jack Martin sadly. He is basically Jack Silvagni standard forward at best, without versatility to ruck.

Kennedy can pinch hit up forward, and there are always injuries, so he will probably play a fair bit.

We were smashed by injury this year on top of 5 guys who never play, so the VFL side was always going to struggle.

Williams, I don't think his body can hold up to the rigors of AFL, its been proven over and over again. He is only contracted for next year, will be touch and go if he gets another contract beyond that.

2 more years for Williams.

 

[Blue1980]

2 more years for Williams.

Oh it was a 6 year deal initially, goodie.

 

[carlton_99]

Pretty sad that Owies pretty much provides more than those 3 combined.

Issue is Owies doesn't play like a small forward. Limited crumbing ability and F50 pressure. Has had a good season but have always felt he plays more like a third tall than a small forward. Nothing wrong with that by the way it's just we need someone that can do the crumbing in that forward seven.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Pretty sad that Owies pretty much provides more than those 3 combined.

He needs to go too. They are all awful

 

[GT619]

Our small forwards are below average and we don’t have a lot of key defender depth.
Until we address those deficiencies we won’t achieve anything.

you can only do that through aggressive trading and drafting aggressive