List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets

[Purple Suit]

2 points yesterday, 1 goal the week before

I know Richmond needs to get it into their forward line, but Baker seems to be contributing more. I guess this weekend's game is an audition for both of them.

He's leading Richmond's goal scoring though with 20 and would be coming 3rd at Freo.

I think the price will be too high for Bolton unless he demands a trade & wants to take a pay cut just to come home and win flags. I'd give up more trade Capital too if Richmond eat some of his very big contract while they rebuild. All assuming Chad is not happening, I would be giving them all three firsts if it meant we can lock him in at 500K pa. We can do a salary pick swap.

 

[ignoramus]

Does anyone know the precise rules around salary caps? As in the specific constraints around, e.g. banking cap?

Like, we talk a fair bit about having banked cap space but what does or can that mean over a number of years? Spending the floor of the cap one year allows the remaining 5% to be carried into the next, but is it then possible to spend the floor again and carry the surplus from both years into the next? And so on?

Basically, sometimes there's talk about having surplus from multiple years under the cap ("war chest"), but is it really an option to go more than cap-plus-previous-year-surplus? Seems unlikely to me, otherwise North Melbourne, say, would have something like 130% cap space by now? Or is that actually how it works, and that explains how Carlton have been able to bring people in over the last few years (ignoring Visy salaries for the sake of argument)?

Is there anything concrete/official online that can be consulted on these questions?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

He's leading Richmond's goal scoring though with 20 and would be coming 3rd at Freo.

I think the price will be too high for Bolton unless he demands a trade & wants to take a pay cut just to come home and win flags. I'd give up more trade Capital too if Richmond eat some of his very big contract while they rebuild. All assuming Chad is not happening, I would be giving them all three firsts if it meant we can lock him in at 500K pa. We can do a salary pick swap.

I might be reading too much into it but his performances each week (and Richmond supporters rapidly decreasing opinion of him) reads like he is basically chucking a dummy spit and will force his way out.

I mentioned before, but if Richmond relented and decided it was best to move on, I would find it very hard to keep my powder dry, even for Warner. A fair price for Bolton makes us pretty damn good with room to move / still bring in talent. Your point on them paying some contract for a better return is even better and I hadnt thought of it. Might even be some middle ground (particularly if Port and Pies finish low enough) where we can squeeze them both in, then holy **** are we cooking

 

[Paracleet]

Does anyone know the precise rules around salary caps? As in the specific constraints around, e.g. banking cap?

Like, we talk a fair bit about having banked cap space but what does or can that mean over a number of years? Spending the floor of the cap one year allows the remaining 5% to be carried into the next, but is it then possible to spend the floor again and carry the surplus from both years into the next? And so on?

Basically, sometimes there's talk about having surplus from multiple years under the cap ("war chest"), but is it really an option to go more than cap-plus-previous-year-surplus? Seems unlikely to me, otherwise North Melbourne, say, would have something like 130% cap space by now? Or is that actually how it works, and that explains how Carlton have been able to bring people in over the last few years (ignoring Visy salaries for the sake of argument)?

Is there anything concrete/official online that can be consulted on these questions?

Pretty sure the amount you can carry forward reduces each additional year and at some point none. So you can spend 105% the year after spending 95%, but if you say only spend 100% that following year, you can't carry the full 5% into the year after, only some of it. Details would require digging.

 

[Joao]

Does anyone know the precise rules around salary caps? As in the specific constraints around, e.g. banking cap?

Like, we talk a fair bit about having banked cap space but what does or can that mean over a number of years? Spending the floor of the cap one year allows the remaining 5% to be carried into the next, but is it then possible to spend the floor again and carry the surplus from both years into the next? And so on?

Basically, sometimes there's talk about having surplus from multiple years under the cap ("war chest"), but is it really an option to go more than cap-plus-previous-year-surplus? Seems unlikely to me, otherwise North Melbourne, say, would have something like 130% cap space by now? Or is that actually how it works, and that explains how Carlton have been able to bring people in over the last few years (ignoring Visy salaries for the sake of argument)?

Is there anything concrete/official online that can be consulted on these questions?

I believe it is 3 years you can do it for but not sure exactly how much.

The way to do it long term is to front load every contract while you have spare. So someone like Andy might have been on 750k average for the last 4, but might only be getting 150 this year type thing.

Would be interested to send Snuffaluphagus to review the books.

 

[Purple Suit]

I might be reading too much into it but his performances each week (and Richmond supporters rapidly decreasing opinion of him) reads like he is basically chucking a dummy spit and will force his way out.

I mentioned before, but if Richmond relented and decided it was best to move on, I would find it very hard to keep my powder dry, even for Warner. A fair price for Bolton makes us pretty damn good with room to move / still bring in talent. You're point on them paying some contract for a better return is even better and I hadnt thought of it. Might even be some middle ground (particularly if Port and Pies finish low enough) where we can squeeze them both in, then holy **** are we cooking

Baker is coming 4th in their goal kicking. Losing both Bolton and Baker will be a bit of a disaster for on field competitiveness and I think it's probably a bridge too far to sign off on this year. Reality hasn't quite sunk in yet or how long it will take.

It would reverse the top up disaster though and allow them to hit every draft hard before Tassie come in. They might just have enough senior players around to pull it off if they do it right now.

 

[DragoDelph]

If baker stays, we only need to give a better offer for Bolton, than the suns give for Rioli.

I think they would keep one of Bolton and Rioli and let the other go.

 

[FreoGirl]

I might be reading too much into it but his performances each week (and Richmond supporters rapidly decreasing opinion of him) reads like he is basically chucking a dummy spit and will force his way out.

I mentioned before, but if Richmond relented and decided it was best to move on, I would find it very hard to keep my powder dry, even for Warner. A fair price for Bolton makes us pretty damn good with room to move / still bring in talent. You're point on them paying some contract for a better return is even better and I hadnt thought of it. Might even be some middle ground (particularly if Port and Pies finish low enough) where we can squeeze them both in, then holy **** are we cooking

When Acres and Henry knew they wanted to leave they actually improved their game, so a player who is suddenly playing out of his skin becomes suspicious than one who drops off. I recently saw an article about it when I was looking up something about the Chris Judd trade, but can't find it. It was bounced off his comments in an interview with MMM.

Chris Judd On When He Knew He’d Be Leaving West Coast

'I was pretty clear'

www.triplem.com.au

JUDD: I think going into that year, I was pretty clear that I thought this would be my last year at the footy club. Albeit, you know that things can change throughout that time.

JB: Did you find motivation playing for West Coast at all difficult knowing you’d be leaving at the end of the year?

JUDD: No I didn’t. And I really wanted to give as much as I could that year because I think there was an underlying guilt that I was going to be taking off.


BUT, I imagine if your team is in a shitty position, you might not be motivated to flog yourself.

 

[Joao]

I know they don't get the choice because of contracts, but I'd much rather lose Bolton than Baker in the Tigers position. Baker will perform better, appears to be a much better leader and is worth less. Those unconditional blokes are great for standards.

Bolton is going to make FA difference for the next 4 years. Small forward is a terrible place to play when your team sucks.

 

[DragoDelph]

I know they don't get the choice because of contracts, but I'd much rather lose Bolton than Baker in the Tigers position. Baker will perform better, appears to be a much better leader and is worth less. Those unconditional blokes are great for standards.

Bolton is going to make FA difference for the next 4 years. Small forward is a terrible place to play when your team sucks.

Yep.

And imagine once there's something to play for again, his game improves. Sometimes is hard to find that week in, week out motivation when the result ultimately doesn't matter.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I know they don't get the choice because of contracts, but I'd much rather lose Bolton than Baker in the Tigers position. Baker will perform better, appears to be a much better leader and is worth less. Those unconditional blokes are great for standards.

Bolton is going to make FA difference for the next 4 years. Small forward is a terrible place to play when your team sucks.

Doubly so because it genuinely seems like they could keep Baker if they REALLY wanted to. If they pay him enough (and it wouldnt need to be stupid either), he'd stay.

 

[Joao]

Doubly so because it genuinely seems like they could keep Baker if they REALLY wanted to. If they pay him enough (and it wouldnt need to be stupid either), he'd stay.

Give him some of what Bolton leaves behind.

 

[FreoGirl]

Doubly so because it genuinely seems like they could keep Baker if they REALLY wanted to. If they pay him enough (and it wouldnt need to be stupid either), he'd stay.

BUT, he has given more indication than anybody else in Victoria that he wants to move, especially after buying a house in Perth and being OOC. I see him ending up at West Coast.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Give him some of what Bolton leaves behind.

Exactly, I dont know, seems like a very easy list decision to me if Bolton really went to them asking out but they could be drinking their own cool aid thinking they can turn it around quick. They were high enough off their own farts to get Hopper and Taranto so they probably do overrate where they are at

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

BUT, he has given more indication than anybody else in Victoria that he wants to move, especially after buying a house in Perth and being OOC. I see him ending up at West Coast.

My understanding from someone who directly talked to him is that he loves Richmond and would be fine staying. I think they could get Baker to stay if they went hard enough at it.

 

[Joao]

Exactly, I dont know, seems like a very easy list decision to me if Bolton really went to them asking out but they could be drinking their own cool aid thinking they can turn it around quick. They were high enough off their own farts to get Hopper and Taranto so they probably do overrate where they are at

There is a slim chance they are playing the game with Bolton and are actually fine letting him go but want to extract from us.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

There is a slim chance they are playing the game with Bolton and are actually fine letting him go but want to extract from us.

I'll again asterisk this talk that I am dead against paying the farm for Bolton. The appeal is paying a fair price for a player that fits a perfect need - even though he is flakey. If they want to play the "he's contracted for forever card" I'd respect it, then pass

 

[Joao]

I'll again asterisk this talk that I am dead against paying the farm for Bolton. The appeal is paying a fair price for a player that first a perfect need - even though he is flakey. If they want to play the "he's contracted for forever card" I'd respect it, then pass

Yeah agree, but Wallsy sounds pretty excited when he talks about our 3 firsts.

 

[FreoGirl]

I'll again asterisk this talk that I am dead against paying the farm for Bolton. The appeal is paying a fair price for a player that fits a perfect need - even though he is flakey. If they want to play the "he's contracted for forever card" I'd respect it, then pass

I havw faith in our recruiters, at the moment

 

[Ghost Pig]

After the weekends heroics I'm officially off any expensive trades, Warner is a want but the discussed asking price of 1.5 million could be bad for team morale and might encourage players to leave for better coin.

Market price +10% for trade ins or gtfo.

To the draft with our triple firsts and keep bringing in quality kids I reckon, last time we had 3 picks in the first(ish) round we nabbed Amiss, Erasmus and Johnno, before that Serong, Young and Henry. We've got a 66% hit rate in this situation.

(As an unrelated aside we got Hase, Pav and Leigh Brown in the first round way back)

There may be one same age player of our current best 22 first round draft picks you'd trade for Warner, but is there two?

Amiss and Johnno? Nope. Sebba and Youngy? Nope. Pav and Hase? Hell nope.

I know we're all despo for the first flag, but can we keep a sneaky eye on the the window when Andy is in Fyfes position as the elder statesman too?

 

[Joao]

As a rule I don't believe salaries that get bandied about in the media. I am 100% sure they put mayo on it to get more clicks. Blokes gets an average of 700k over 5 but $1.2m in the first year -> media reports $1.2m, 5 year contract type stuff.

I have full faith we're not going to blow it up chasing a fish.

 

[Lach72]

Genuine question, if Bolton was out of contract, would a fair price for him be. He's a gun but there is a fair bit of mayo that goes with him from Tigers fans (who think all their players are incredible and not fairly rated). I'd be comfortable giving up a top 10 pick, not much more though.

I think if Richmond were open to letting him go this year (and honestly, with how he's playing...), I'd need a very firm commitment from Warner for next year to turn down slotting Baker into Switta's role. That is a massive upgrade and can easily be the difference in a flag or not...

One mid first round.
And I’m deadly serious. Everyone talks like he’s peak Eddy Betts, but he’s not fit to carry Eddy’s bag

 

[Lach72]

Cap concerns me more than the draft. We have ridiculous talent under 25, happy to skip another draft or two basically if it means another a-grade player.

Club boards are full of nuffies, meh on whatever Richmond board is saying about him.

I'm cold paying Chad $1.5m as has been thrown around. $1.1m plus incentives because he WANTS to join us, not just for money, I'm comfortable with.

We wouldn’t be skipping another draft though. We have a high second to look for a small forward.
If it’s next year he’s out of contract and the cost comes down to two firsts.

 

[DragoDelph]

Ok, not as pithy as normal, probably missed heaps, but ok for a first go round. Let me know who needs to be added.

IN/OUT	Player	Notes	Price	Vibe
IN	Chad Warner	The Water Tower has been prepared. More likely to see something next year, unless the Swans are chasing someone this year as well.	Heytesbury	2025​
	Logan McDonald	So apparently re-signed a few weeks ago. Just final terms to be sorted. Talk of Hawks and Pies still chasing hard, and freo still have interest.	R1 + R2	Stays
	Liam Baker	Would prefer the familiarity of the Tigers, Freo were in front for a while before WC came in with an increased offer.	Late R1	Stay 40% WC 40% Freo 20%
	Riley Garcia	Out of favour at the dogs, has indicated that he may like to come home.	R3-R4	Will leave, but to where?
	Darcy Jones	GWS stacked for smalls. Under contract though	Late F1-R2	Unlikely
	Isaiah Winder	Were linked during mid-season. Delisted free agent so could look at during the SSP	FREE!!	Possible
	Jack Lukosious	Think this is out of the running. Has settled, GC don't need picks, and under contract	2x R1	Dream On
	Cameron Zurhaar	Still no movement on extending at North. Not a lot of suitors elsewhere. Are we running a smokescreen and he is the target? RFA so wither would need to offer a massive deal, or North will match.	R1 + R2	Swans or Pies
	Trent Rivers	Whispers abound about his desire to get out of the "snow" at Melbourne and return home. Another of the East Freo ratpack. In Contract for a while, so would not come cheap.	R1	Possible
	Shai Bolton	If Baker stays, do the tiges cash in on Bolton. Word is that he'd consider a move home, though more likely end of 2025. Have things changed?	2x R1	There's smoke
OUT	Bailey Banfield	Free Agent. Money isn't the issue here, would think it's opportunity. Some tenuous links to Carlton, (they just want the other Cerra).	N/A	Not a * chance he leaves
	Sam Switkowski	Whispers around about a move back to Vic. Still under contract for 2 years. Would need to be something significant coming back (player or picks)	R1 + R2	Doubtful
	Matt Taberner	Likely to retire	-	Likely
	Josh Corbett	Delisted. Probably offered a role at the club, and to remain a Mid season draft option if things go his way.	-	Likely
	Will Brodie	Will he look for opportunity elsewhere? Or is he happy to collect a pay cheque and be a break glass player?	R3-R4	Possible
	Neil Erasmus	May look for opportunity, or be considered part of other deals. Would leave the midfield depth extremely thin though.	R2	Unlikely
	Karl Worner	Nothing in this except for a prophetic dream from one of the kids. Saw him in Melbourne colours.	R4	Unlikely
	Sam Sturt	Please don't leave now Sam.	R2	Unlikely
	Nathan O'Driscoll	Injury cruelled, may end up delisted and re-rookied while he recovers	-	Unlikely

 

[Joao]

Checked the Tigers board out of interest. Surprisingly high fraction of them are happy to let Bolton go.

Must be really phoning it in this year.