List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets

[Snuffaluphagus]

You can get pretty creative with the salary cap. Besides the usual club tactics of trading/delisting players, we can also restructure deals to front/back end contracts to accommodate bringing in players. Pay Richmond to take some of Bolton's salary and if we want Warner, I'm sure we can backend that contract to take advantage of our older players like Pearce (29) and Ryan (28) signing on smaller contracts. Salary cap management is so important to winning a premiership so if getting Warner puts on too much pressure then we shouldn't do it.

If we pay more in picks for Richmond to pay some salary, we don't have the picks for Warner (this year) and we should be seeing if we can get Pickett.

You can be as creative as you want but you pay the toll eventually. GWS seem like they are losing Peatling, Cumming and Perryman this year.

If we get Bolton and Warner, get ready to lose a few decent players shortly down the road. Nothing surer

 

[Yeti]

32 ANDREW BRAYSHAW
FREMANTLE, 24, Midfielder
$800,000-$900,000
He is in the second last year of a deal which kicked in at the start of the 2021 season and has had another strong season. Now a vice captain of the club alongside Caleb Serong beneath Alex Pearce. He Serong and Hayden Young are the pillars of an emerging midfield and Brayshaw is one of the best two way running mids in the AFL. He will be a high priority for the Dockers to lock away before he comes out of contract at the end of next year.

35 CALEB SERONG
FREMANTLE, 23, Midfielder
$800,000-$900,000
He signed a long term agreement which tied him to the club until the end of 2027 two years ago and his value has increased with his ascension to the role of vice captain alongside Andrew Brayshaw and his All-Australian gong and a best and fairest last year. Ran up 20 or more disposals in a game 73 matches in a row before round 24 against Port Adelaide when he had 19 disposals.

41 LUKE JACKSON
FREMANTLE, 22, Ruckman/Forward
$800,000-$900,000
Signed a long term deal to join Fremantle at the end of the 2022 season. The deal takes him through to 2027 with triggers for 2028 and 2029. He is still developing his craft both as a ruckman and as a forward which makes his life as a Docker challenging. He has been okay in both roles over his two season at the Dockers - kicking 22 and 21 goals when playing as a forward and stepping up to ruck either alongside Sean Darcy or in his absence but the club will be hoping he develops further in both areas.

59 LUKE RYAN
FREMANTLE, 28, Defender
$700,000-$800,000
He is value for money even at this price with another stellar season in defence for Freo putting him in the frame for a second All-Australian selection. A contract extension signed at the end of 2022 has him locked away until the end of the 2027 season and is a good chance to make him a one club player. In many ways he is the key to the Dockers defence because he plays above his height and gets to contests to help teammates.

61 HAYDEN YOUNG
FREMANTLE, 23, Midfielder
$700,000-$800,000
He extended his contract by four years a year out from the end of his previous deal which ran out at the end of 2023. He is now locked away until the end of the 2027 season which is handy for the club as he has emerged as one of the most damaging players in the competition this season with a successful shift to the Fremantle midfield. The current deal makes him a restricted free agent at the end of the 2027 season and both he and Fremantle would be hoping for team success before then.

65 BRENNAN COX
FREMANTLE, 26, Defender
$700,000-$800,000
He went early on a long term contract extension at the end of 2023 which sealed a long term deal which will take him through to the end of the 2030 season. He was an All-Australian squad nominee in 2022 but has found life a little tougher since. A serious hamstring injury suffered in round one of 2024 wiped out four months of his season and he struggled to find his best form when he came back. The Dockers need him at his best in 2025.

71 SEAN DARCY
FREMANTLE, 26, Ruckman
$700,000-$800,000
Signed a six year contract extension that took him out of the free agency window before his previous contract expired at the end of 2024. At his best he is worth the money but the injury profile over the last two seasons is a concern. He missed eight games in 2023 and 11 this year. Is set for surgery on a troublesome knee this post season. The Dockers have pinned their hopes on a two ruck structure and they need Darcy to stand up if it is to work.

81 KYSAIAH PICKETT
MELBOURNE, 23, Forward
$650,000-$750,000
Newcomer to the rich list after ignoring overtures from interstate. Still has three more years to run on his contract although reports of homesickness are a concern for the Demons.

$5,900,000 out of a salary cap of $15,788,222.
So according to the Herald Sun just over 37% of our salary cap is spent on just 7 players.

So the remaining $9,888,222 is left for 39 players with 46 players on the 2024 list. Averaged out it would be $253,544 per player.

Let's assume our 6 AFL Rookies are all earning the minimum of $90,000 each (which they won't be as Worner and Sharp play games) that takes away $540,000 leaving us with $9,348,222 @ an average of $283,279 for the remaining 33 players.

We have Fyfe and Walters who let's put on $400k each and we can probably throw O'Meara, Aish, and Taberner on there as well so 5 players @ $400k = another $2,000,000 allocated so that leaves us with $7,348,222 to be slit across 28 players at an average wage of $262,436.

Is this good list management? Bad list management? Completely irrelevant because no one knows how true these numbers are?

 

[Dockeroo]

If we pay more in picks for Richmond to pay some salary, we don't have the picks for Warner (this year) and we should be seeing if we can get Pickett.

You can be as creative as you want but you pay the toll eventually. GWS seem like they are losing Peatling, Cumming and Perryman this year.

If we get Bolton and Warner, get ready to lose a few decent players shortly down the road. Nothing surer

The concern is that we are locked into cox and Darcy and they are underperforming for whatever reason, but still costing us big money.

Also I think the list this morning is a little inaccurate in some areas.
No one can tell me Josh Dunkley is not in the top 100 paid players in the AFL.
Although there could be some big names taking a down year on their deals in 2024 that are hence not appearing on their list. Eg if Dunkley is taking 550k this year and $950k next year, it’s still an average salary of 750k over two years but he would not appear on this list

 

[s_wd6]

$5,900,000 out of a salary cap of $15,788,222.
So according to the Herald Sun just over 37% of our salary cap is spent on just 7 players.

So the remaining $9,888,222 is left for 39 players with 46 players on the 2024 list. Averaged out it would be $253,544 per player.

Let's assume our 6 AFL Rookies are all earning the minimum of $90,000 each (which they won't be as Worner and Sharp play games) that takes away $540,000 leaving us with $9,348,222 @ an average of $283,279 for the remaining 33 players.

We have Fyfe and Walters who let's put on $400k each and we can probably throw O'Meara, Aish, and Taberner on there as well so 5 players @ $400k = another $2,000,000 allocated so that leaves us with $7,348,222 to be slit across 28 players at an average wage of $262,436.

Is this good list management? Bad list management? Completely irrelevant because no one knows how true these numbers are?

I think that probably just speaks to how innaccurate this list is. Like according to Gawn/Gus they are overestimating contracts by 150-250k at least.

Young signed his contract in 2022 after he'd played around 20 games for the club. There's close to no chance he would be anywhere close to 800k now. Even Brayshaw and Serong would be closer to 700k than 900k.

Now factor in our offers for Warner and Baker, who we've been courting all year. It just becomes impossible at that point if the article is true.

 

[Dockeroo]

$5,900,000 out of a salary cap of $15,788,222.
So according to the Herald Sun just over 37% of our salary cap is spent on just 7 players.

So the remaining $9,888,222 is left for 39 players with 46 players on the 2024 list. Averaged out it would be $253,544 per player.

Let's assume our 6 AFL Rookies are all earning the minimum of $90,000 each (which they won't be as Worner and Sharp play games) that takes away $540,000 leaving us with $9,348,222 @ an average of $283,279 for the remaining 33 players.

We have Fyfe and Walters who let's put on $400k each and we can probably throw O'Meara, Aish, and Taberner on there as well so 5 players @ $400k = another $2,000,000 allocated so that leaves us with $7,348,222 to be slit across 28 players at an average wage of $262,436.

Is this good list management? Bad list management? Completely irrelevant because no one knows how true these numbers are?

This is exactly why I could not believe a few weeks back on a discussion here that Sam Switkowski is on $600k or anything even remotely close to that.

If he is we have some alarming cap issues coming down the track.

 

[Dockeroo]

How one of the AFL's most exclusive clubs is set to explode in membership

Player salaries in the AFL will grow massively in the coming seasons, as those in the millionaires club welcome new members due to more money pouring into the game.

www.abc.net.au

Good article here.
The breakdown of player payment brackets is interesting.

 

[Alfonz]

I think that probably just speaks to how innaccurate this list is.

It's innaccurate, but I think it would be in the ballpark. Someone like Ryan would be the main question mark for us. I think it is a bit of a "dual AA, must be paid well" guess.

My main query would be on Geelong. It seems crazy they would only have 3 players, but then again when I watched them v Freo and again on the weekend, and the thing that stood out was how even they were. Their worst player on the ground was still pretty good. I would think going forward they'd have Stengle, Holmes and De Koning on decent coin. Bailey Smith incoming?

It also makes sense to see how Hawthorn have room for Barrass and Battle. I wondered a few years ago whether they'd be paying Sicily 2 million front loaded, because he was the only gun on the list. Moore and Day are now there, but maybe their current contracts don't reflect that.

 

[Taylor]

It would be easier to draw conclusions on salary cap space off those figures if clubs weren't also required to spend the same 95% minimum floor as the others.

 

[s_wd6]

It's innaccurate, but I think it would be in the ballpark. Someone like Ryan would be the main question mark for us. I think it is a bit of a "dual AA, must be paid well" guess.

My main query would be on Geelong. It seems crazy they would only have 3 players, but then again when I watched them v Freo and again on the weekend, and the thing that stood out was how even they were. Their worst player on the ground was still pretty good. I would think going forward they'd have Stengle, Holmes and De Koning on decent coin. Bailey Smith incoming?

It also makes sense to see how Hawthorn have room for Barrass and Battle. I wondered a few years ago whether they'd be paying Sicily 2 million front loaded, because he was the only gun on the list. Moore and Day are now there, but maybe their current contracts don't reflect that.

Some are definitely accurate. Like I’d imagine guys like Ryan and Darcy and Jackson are there. But there’s way too much guess work to take much merit in it.

Hawks obviously would have a lot of space since they have no superstars, but I’m not buying the narrative out of Geelong

 

[go_the_dockers]

Boltons difference is he is a genuine clearance mid as well. Its why he's on the money he's on. Yes, I have Pickett as the better pure small forward, and honestly, arguably the most valuable in the game given his age. I honestly struggle to believe we could be stupid enough to not commit everything to him if he genuinely wants to join.

I really hope we get a 2 more small forwards this year, so we don't pigeon hole into the small forward role and miss his value.

Both don't need to be best 22, but at least we will have depth in the area, and won't be forced to play mids as small forwards.

 

[wakojako]

If we get Bolton and Warner, get ready to lose a few decent players shortly down the road. Nothing surer

If we trade Switta and Richmond pay another $3-400k, bringing in Bolton will barely move the salary cap needle.

 

[Dockeroo]

Some are definitely accurate. Like I’d imagine guys like Ryan and Darcy and Jackson are there. But there’s way too much guess work to take much merit in it.

Hawks obviously would have a lot of space since they have no superstars, but I’m not buying the narrative out of Geelong

Yeah I agree on Geelong. Players like Gryan Miers should also be on decent coin he was close to AA last year and is 25 years old now.
Holmes has just signed a big money 4 year deal for next year. Dempsey has just won a rising star. I think it was about 4 years ago that mark Duffield told us that the rising star winner each year earns about $495k in their third season. That will only have gone up too since then.

Also as I mentioned earlier there is just no way Cam Guthrie is not on decent money. Signed a 4 year deal in 2021 as a reigning B&F winner in a grand final team coming off an AA award, he just HAS to be on a sizeable deal of $750k per annum minimum. Must be backended this year or something.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

If we trade Switta, Richmond pay another $3-400k, bringing in Bolton will barely move the salary cap needle.

They aren't paying 300-400k for a few years for shits and giggles. That means Bolton is costing 9 and 10 so how are we getting Warner this year?

I'll take this a step further. There is only one football and so many midfield minutes and cap to go around. Warner AND Bolton is poor value and list management for what we'll pay and terrible list management if it means we've passed on Pickett.

 

[Taylor]

I think we want our smalls who are forwards to have near midfielder stamina to be able to

Yeah I agree on Geelong. Players like Gryan Miers should also be on decent coin he was close to AA last year and is 25 years old now.
Holmes has just signed a big money 4 year deal for next year. Dempsey has just won a rising star. I think it was about 4 years ago that mark Duffield told us that the rising star winner each year earns about $495k in their third season. That will only have gone up too since then.

Also as I mentioned earlier there is just no way Cam Guthrie is not on decent money. Signed a 4 year deal in 2021 as a reigning B&F winner in a grand final team coming off an AA award, he just HAS to be on a sizeable deal of $750k per annum minimum. Must be backended this year or something.

Geelong are in a position to offer contracts where finals payments (not on the cap) go to players on the list longest in return for them taking lower salaries. The clubs can distribute the money the AFL pays them for finals appearances however they want.

Far more reliable appearances for them too.

 

[pK75]

I think we want our smalls who are forwards to have near midfielder stamina to be able to


Geelong are in a position to offer contracts where finals payments (not on the cap) go to players on the list longest in return for them taking lower salaries. The clubs can distribute the money the AFL pays them for finals appearances however they want.

Far more reliable appearances for them too.

I wonder if that’s how Boltons “triggers” push him up from 1mil to 1.2. Based on finals appearances (which the AFL pay) if that is the case, he’s only taking home 1mil per year if he stays at Richmond, so for us to it down to 800 we only need them to cough up $200k per year, is that pick 14 worthy?

 

[Taylor]

I wonder if that’s how Boltons “triggers” push him up from 1mil to 1.2. Based on finals appearances (which the AFL pay) if that is the case, he’s only taking home 1mil per year if he stays at Richmond, so for us to it down to 800 we only need them to cough up $200k per year, is that pick 14 worthy?

Usually the triggers are: games played, goals kicked, B&F placing, Brownlow, AA selection etc.

It would be quite special for Richmond, Fremantle and a third club were involved in a three way trade where one of our picks goes with Lynch to the third and Lynch/Rioli salary and Bolton come to Freo.

Pies future first to Richmond, Lynch, pick #15 and #29 to Pies - but it's not like they are struggling for cap.

 

[malpaso]

The concern is that we are locked into cox and Darcy and they are underperforming for whatever reason, but still costing us big money.

Also I think the list this morning is a little inaccurate in some areas.
No one can tell me Josh Dunkley is not in the top 100 paid players in the AFL.
Although there could be some big names taking a down year on their deals in 2024 that are hence not appearing on their list. Eg if Dunkley is taking 550k this year and $950k next year, it’s still an average salary of 750k over two years but he would not appear on this list

Cmon, Cox has been great. He had a severe hamstring injury in Round 1 this year and he's underperforming?
Darcy I'll give you, his injury history should have been given more time by the list management squad but he actually seemed past it when he signed.
Injuries are a part of professional sport. I'm confident they both return next year in tip top.

 

[Ge3ks]

Yeah some people forget just how good a fully fit Brennan Cox

36

Brennan Cox

Age

26

Ht

195cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

5.3

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

182.8

3star

D

12.3

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.0

2star

MG

182.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

is.

 

[apuchar]

This Cox stuff is hilarious.

 

[s_wd6]

Yeah some people forget just how good a fully fit Brennan Cox is.

Tbf he was fully fit last year and wasn’t great. A fit and in form Brennan is great though. Hope we can see it again one day.

 

[eastfreo75]

I think we want our smalls who are forwards to have near midfielder stamina to be able to


Geelong are in a position to offer contracts where finals payments (not on the cap) go to players on the list longest in return for them taking lower salaries. The clubs can distribute the money the AFL pays them for finals appearances however they want.

Far more reliable appearances for them too.

Do you know the breakdown of final payments?

 

[Dockeroo]

Cmon, Cox has been great. He had a severe hamstring injury in Round 1 this year and he's underperforming?
Darcy I'll give you, his injury history should have been given more time by the list management squad but he actually seemed past it when he signed.
Injuries are a part of professional sport. I'm confident they both return next year in tip top.

Cox is fine. When he’s fit. Was pretty terrible at the end of this season but I’ll accept that he’s decent when fully fit. I do think he’s in that category that is potentially overrated by his own fans but anyway.


The question for us is do we end up losing another elite player in 2 years time because our cap is bursting and we are paying cox $700k plus per annum till 2031. That’s when it becomes an issue.
I see our cap being at bursting point in 2028 and 2029. Serong, Brayshaw and Young will all be earning around $1.3 million at least in those years (if we can keep them).
We’d want to have a flag before then otherwise someone good will fall out of the list

 

[Dirty_banchez]

I think that Ryan Daniels article was born from a conversation on the Hard Ball Gets podcast. Ellis and Nic seemed to think Chad Warner

1

Chad Warner

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.0

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

2star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.5

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

2star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.5

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

7.0

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.5

4star

CL

0.0

1star

was a bigger priority than Pickett.

I'm not so certain it's as clear cut as the guys think. However, I think Sydney are a bigger chance to let Warner go than Melbourne are for Pickett.

 

[freo_leo29]

Herald Sun with the AFL Rich 100 today - just to aid with salary cap debates.

Darcy, Cox, Young, Ryan - $700-800k.
Jackson, Serong, Brayshaw - $800-900k.
Shai Bolton - $1 - 1.1mil, up to $1.2mil with triggers/bonuses.

For lols - Tom Lynch - $1.45-1.55mil

These are confirmed guesstimates btw, just for anyone playing along at home

 

[freo_leo29]

Tbf he was fully fit last year and wasn’t great. A fit and in form Brennan is great though. Hope we can see it again one day.

He missed preseason last year, had a knee infection