List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets Part 2

[Tbonefreo]

Should have picked naughty norten or Allen in hindsight

 

[s_wd6]

He was a better footballer than Dylan Shiel and Adam Treloer were and they both fetched two first rounders with a second coming back.

He was not better than Treloar or Shiel. Even Cerra's best season of football (Carlton 2023) wouldn't be close to Treloar or Shiel's top three seasons at the Giants.

Lets compare him with Treloar, in their fourth season, which they both got traded in:
28 touches, 4 marks, 4 clr, 1 goal assist, 7 score involvements a game + 14 goals for the year
23 touches, 5 marks, 3 clr, 1 goal assist, 5 score inovlements a game + 5 goals for the year

Not to mention Treloar had done the exact same thing the season before. That's comparing a 21 year old with 79 games who went at 28 touches and kicked 27 goals in his past two seasons to a 21 year old with 75 games who went at 22 touches (adjusted for shorter games) and kicked 8 goals in his past two seasons. Pretty big gap there. If you think Cerra was even close to Treloar, let alone better than him then you really are overrating him.

Post Brayshaw’s stats compared to Cerra in 2018-2021. They’re not much different. You now know what we Brayshaw has become and what Cerra’s injuries have made him become. You’re talking in hindsight.

Cerra's injuries haven't "made him become" anything. He played pretty much full seasons in his first two years at Carlton for similar numbers to his final year with us. 24.5 touches, 3.5 marks, 4 clr, 0.4 goal assists, 5 score involvements a game + 7 goals a year. Before this year where Cerra had his first injury affected season, there were only 7 games separating him and Brayshaw.

Brayshaw is a much better player which is why he improved singificantly over Cerra from 2021 onwards. Ridiculous to suggest that Cerra would be even close to his level now just because they started off similarly.

Just admit that you rated him much higher than he actually performed because of potential and expectation of his growth, not because he was actually that good of a player.

 

[s_wd6]

If you really want to have a sook about player value then make it about how we gave up a contracted 25 year old 2x b&f winner (reigning b&f and AA squad too) for pick 6 and an exchange of second rounders. That's ****ing atrocious.

Not the fact that we received the same return for a 21 year old who hadn't even shown half as much.

 

[eastfreo75]

Pick 5 with 76 games in 4 years, improved every season. If he were going to Freo from Carlton they would have expected 2 x 1sts with a 2nd going back. Obviously Amiss is a better footballer/prospect than Cerra, but just because they nailed the pick it doesn't make it a good deal.

It's like if you trade a player for pick 20 and you get Fyfe.

 

[Purpletown]

The difference maybe between a Cerra and say someone like Pickett, not that you were making that comparison, but perhaps there's an extra weighting once players have played in a premiership side whereas Cerra just played 4 years in a team that struggled around the bottom half of the 8.

It's hard to make sense of player worth equivalence when there's talk that the AFL will give a Top 10 compensation pick to St Kilda when Hawthorn take Josh Battle via free agency.

If the AFL give St Kilda a top 10 compensation pick for Josh Battle it is nothing to do with Battle's worth as a player.
It's the AFL getting up to their usual nonsense of finding a way to get a good outcome via their secret magic formula that can produce any outcome they desire. Prime example is McKay to Essendon.

 

[pK75]

If the AFL give St Kilda a top 10 compensation pick for Josh Battle it is nothing to do with Battle's worth as a player.
It's the AFL getting up to their usual nonsense of finding a way to get a good outcome via their secret magic formula that can produce any outcome they desire. Prime example is McKay to Essendon.

St Kilda should absolutely NOT get a top 10 pick for Battle, just because they upped their offer to push it into band one territory doesn’t mean the hawks also upped theirs to match, maybe he just wanted to play hokball!

 

[arsesmart]

St Kilda should absolutely NOT get a top 10 pick for Battle, just because they upped their offer to push it into band one territory doesn’t mean the hawks also upped theirs to match, maybe he just wanted to play hokball!

I think the whole Battle-compo situation highlights another weighted benefit of existing in an area where over half of the teams in the competition are massively concentrated geographically.

That particular sort of bidding war is a lot less likely to occur here. The lifestyle difference between playing for St Kilda vs Hawthorn is what?... Battle might have a longer drive to training?... maybe even shorter... it's minuscule compared to the consideration of moving cities... especially for a experienced player who's more likely to have a family of their own to consider.

Melbourne, where all the high profile media is concentrated (brought up in and/or have a tendency to glorify it), is a lot easier sell because of this from a lifestyle pov.

 

[Docker82]

He was not better than Treloar or Shiel. Even Cerra's best season of football (Carlton 2023) wouldn't be close to Treloar or Shiel's top three seasons at the Giants.

Lets compare him with Treloar, in their fourth season, which they both got traded in:
28 touches, 4 marks, 4 clr, 1 goal assist, 7 score involvements a game + 14 goals for the year
23 touches, 5 marks, 3 clr, 1 goal assist, 5 score inovlements a game + 5 goals for the year

Not to mention Treloar had done the exact same thing the season before. That's comparing a 21 year old with 79 games who went at 28 touches and kicked 27 goals in his past two seasons to a 21 year old with 75 games who went at 22 touches (adjusted for shorter games) and kicked 8 goals in his past two seasons. Pretty big gap there. If you think Cerra was even close to Treloar, let alone better than him then you really are overrating him.


Cerra's injuries haven't "made him become" anything. He played pretty much full seasons in his first two years at Carlton for similar numbers to his final year with us. 24.5 touches, 3.5 marks, 4 clr, 0.4 goal assists, 5 score involvements a game + 7 goals a year. Before this year where Cerra had his first injury affected season, there were only 7 games separating him and Brayshaw.

Brayshaw is a much better player which is why he improved singificantly over Cerra from 2021 onwards. Ridiculous to suggest that Cerra would be even close to his level now just because they started off similarly.

Just admit that you rated him much higher than he actually performed because of potential and expectation of his growth, not because he was actually that good of a player.

Yea fair point about Cerra’s injuries. People are perceiving what he’s become a little unfairly due one injury prone season. He’s a pretty handy player of you look at his other Carlton seasons.

I can’t say I rate what Treloer does with the ball very highly tbh. Looking at that though he was probably a better player when traded than Cerra.

Still think we should’ve got two first rounders with a second coming back or at least a first and second rounder tbh. That is the price for a high draft pick four years in that looks like becoming a top line mid.

 

[Vintage]

Exactly this. You're talking in hindsight and not in 2019 if you say anything else.

If we'd got pick 20 for Cerra would you be happy with the trade? Not if we'd drafted Fyfe? Now how often is pick 20 Fyfe? - Once!

Pick 8 and drafting Amiss isn't much different tbh. We should've got two first rounders for Cerra but we're weak at the trade table. We drafted Amiss, which is a fantastic result, but we should've got more than pick 8 and some borderline unusable picks.

It was pick 6, he was uncontracted and had nominated a club, and he was good but nowhere near a superstar.

It was actually a win win trade as we needed the pick for Amiss. Or rather it would have been win win if he wasn’t so injury prone.

 

[pK75]

Does anyone know what the Melbourne trade would have been? That was Cerra’s first choice but as soon as we mentioned Jackson they backed away. Very sliding doors but I feel like if we hadn’t traded Cerra for pick 6 we probably still end up with Amiss at 10 and no Erasmus.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

You guys are seriously overrating Cerra. He was a good player, but he was never elite, and never even close to being worth two firsts, especially being out of contarct.

14,15, 17, 23. Those were his disposal averages in his years with us. Who is paying more than one first for a midfielder with those numbers? Brayshaw that same year would have been worth two first round picks. Only way Cerra would've gotten two firsts was if they were 17 and 18.

"But B&F finishes" what about them? Does no one remember our list back then? Our injury lists too? Play a full season and you were basically guaranteed a top 10 finish. Trav Colyer finished 9th in Cerra's final year with us.

You underrate Cerra tbh, Vossy hasnt done him any wonders the last 12 months, playing him underdone/out of postion. Finishing top 4 in the BNF in your third year is nothing to sneeze at, Cerra > Lachie Ash quite comfortably

 

[Superkoops]

Does anyone know what the Melbourne trade would have been? That was Cerra’s first choice but as soon as we mentioned Jackson they backed away. Very sliding doors but I feel like if we hadn’t traded Cerra for pick 6 we probably still end up with Amiss at 10 and no Erasmus.

I’m not aware that there was ever an offer from Melbourne. It was common knowledge that we were planning on asking for Luke Jackson though.

In the 2021 draft, Richmond were keen on Amiss and they had pick 9, so we had to pull the trigger at 8.

Wanganeen-Milera chosen (pick 11) after Erasmus has been very good.

The next three players are still developing; Josh Sinn (just played his 9th game on Fri), Ben Hobbs and Campbell Chesser. Erasmus played only four games in 2024 but has had a very good season at WAFL and been emergency a few times.

 

[arsesmart]

You underrate Cerra tbh, Vossy hasnt done him any wonders the last 12 months, playing him underdone/out of postion. Finishing top 4 in the BNF in your third year is nothing to sneeze at, Cerra > Lachie Ash quite comfortably

Ooof... Lachie Ash...salt in the wound.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

He was not better than Treloar or Shiel. Even Cerra's best season of football (Carlton 2023) wouldn't be close to Treloar or Shiel's top three seasons at the Giants.

Lets compare him with Treloar, in their fourth season, which they both got traded in:
28 touches, 4 marks, 4 clr, 1 goal assist, 7 score involvements a game + 14 goals for the year
23 touches, 5 marks, 3 clr, 1 goal assist, 5 score inovlements a game + 5 goals for the year

Not to mention Treloar had done the exact same thing the season before. That's comparing a 21 year old with 79 games who went at 28 touches and kicked 27 goals in his past two seasons to a 21 year old with 75 games who went at 22 touches (adjusted for shorter games) and kicked 8 goals in his past two seasons. Pretty big gap there. If you think Cerra was even close to Treloar, let alone better than him then you really are overrating him.


Cerra's injuries haven't "made him become" anything. He played pretty much full seasons in his first two years at Carlton for similar numbers to his final year with us. 24.5 touches, 3.5 marks, 4 clr, 0.4 goal assists, 5 score involvements a game + 7 goals a year. Before this year where Cerra had his first injury affected season, there were only 7 games separating him and Brayshaw.

Brayshaw is a much better player which is why he improved singificantly over Cerra from 2021 onwards. Ridiculous to suggest that Cerra would be even close to his level now just because they started off similarly.

Just admit that you rated him much higher than he actually performed because of potential and expectation of his growth, not because he was actually that good of a player.

He improved every season he was at Freo, Cerra has not followed that path at Carlton. Freo had every expectation that he would keep getting better, Carltons shitty development has stagnated his career. I had no doubt he would be a 200 game B+/A- grade midfielder had he been at Freo long term.

 

[blue shark]

He improved every season he was at Freo, Cerra has not followed that path at Carlton. Freo had every expectation that he would keep getting better, Carltons shitty development has stagnated his career. I had no doubt he would be a 200 game B+/A- grade midfielder had he been at Freo long term.

You could argue the same thing about Erasmus, the treatment of Brodie and a
coach who plays favourites.
Reality is that some of the older guys in the team are spent.
Does anyone have faith that we will improve next year and take that step up?

 

[Paracleet]

Nah s_wd6 is right. He just hadn't shown he was projecting as more than a good to very good quality player (rather than a star) for us. Sure there was still a chance he was going to end up as a star (and that was reflected in the price) but it shouldn't have been the medium expectation based on his output.

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

You underrate Cerra tbh, Vossy hasnt done him any wonders the last 12 months, playing him underdone/out of postion. Finishing top 4 in the BNF in your third year is nothing to sneeze at, Cerra > Lachie Ash quite comfortably

You overrate Cerra's trade value at the time of the trade. No way known he was performing at an elite level (which is what you are suggesting with the trade you think should have happened) at the time of the trade. His defensive running has always been an issue and his kicking not as good as most would have hoped for a player rated as the best kick in his draft year.

 

[freo_leo29]

Does anyone know what the Melbourne trade would have been? That was Cerra’s first choice but as soon as we mentioned Jackson they backed away. Very sliding doors but I feel like if we hadn’t traded Cerra for pick 6 we probably still end up with Amiss at 10 and no Erasmus.

It's super sliding doors because I'm certain the tiges go for Gibcus if available BUT Carlton were screaming out for a second KPD so if they took him then Richmond probably pounce on Amiss

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

Does not provide much forward pressure, a bit slow.

I would pass. Think of a less talented, probably slower Michael Walters.

Yep we need more speed in our front half and more pressure. Owies doesn't provide that. If we can bring in Bolton and another quick forward we suddenly have some genuine speed in our forward group. If we dont get Picket then we need to get Berry in the draft and possibly trade in someone quick like Rosas with our Saints 4th rounder. Quick small forwards obviosly our biggest list need along with a skillful winger. I think Freddy's best position is actully wing which is anther reason why I want us to bring in 3 small forwards this trade period

 

[Cobbler]

You overrate Cerra's trade value at the time of the trade. No way known he was performing at an elite level (which is what you are suggesting with the trade you think should have happened) at the time of the trade. His defensive running has always been an issue and his kicking not as good as most would have hoped for a player rated as the best kick in his draft year.

To be fair, he’s probably the best kick in that draft. Certainly at first glance at top picks.
Bunch of hacks in top 20.

 

[malpaso]

The fact that the AFL has attributed the amount of salary a player gets to the attributed compensation pick tells you all you need to know about rorting in the AFL.

Who's to say that the club getting the player doesn't actually pay him that specified amount?

 

[Dockeroo]

To be fair, he’s probably the best kick in that draft. Certainly at first glance at top picks.
Bunch of hacks in top 20.

Ed Richards probably the best kick in that first round. Very underrated player

 

[DragoDelph]

Wow.

Port and crows fans in the luko thread are throwing down.

Meanwhile WC and Freo fans in the baker thread

 

[Vimal Anand]

I’m not aware that there was ever an offer from Melbourne. It was common knowledge that we were planning on asking for Luke Jackson though.

In the 2021 draft, Richmond were keen on Amiss and they had pick 9, so we had to pull the trigger at 8.

Wanganeen-Milera chosen (pick 11) after Erasmus has been very good.

The next three players are still developing; Josh Sinn (just played his 9th game on Fri), Ben Hobbs and Campbell Chesser. Erasmus played only four games in 2024 but has had a very good season at WAFL and been emergency a few times.

Yes I heard Richmond were after a key forward and some tigers supports told they would have taken Amiss at 9 to replace Reiwoldt. When he was off the table they took a KPD at 9

On SM-S918B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[jerms]

Wanganeen-Milera chosen (pick 11) after Erasmus has been very good.

I was picking for us in the Freo board mock draft that year and remember getting totally carted for this pick:

Might cop some heat for this - with pick 10, Fremantle selects N. Wanganeen-Milera, Glenelg.

You're up, Lach72.