List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets

[freo84]

Trade news right now....

 

[Andyy]

Andyy u seem genuine, so I ask sincerely, who do u see Baker replacing in the Dockers B22?

To be honest I'm not overly familiar with your B22 (I'm often not with oppo teams anymore as I don't watch as much neutral footy as I used to because the game is less pleasing to watch now haha).

Do you have a B22 I can review?

Are they likely to all be fit all the time?

 

[Paracleet]

I think Emmett is more likely a wait for the trade period to finish before making a decision. If we only get Bolton but lose Brodie and Switta he might be saved, but if we get both Bolton and Baker and lose no one he probably gets chopped.

Stanley might get delisted today though.

I think the season showed he really only has one spot at AFL level* and that is HHF on the the coaches side, and there is no vacancy for that position currently at Freo (Switta). He doesn't have the skills to play closer to goal or on the fat side.

*This is without going into his limitations here. Clearly he has some AFL level attributes or wouldn't have got to 15 games in a team gunning for finals.

 

[Andyy]

Picks sliding has zero impact on what players are available. It is of minor relevance. Pick 9 has a crack at the 9th best available player in the draft.

Trade history tells you Bolton is not worth 9+10.

I guess that depends on which historical trades you are using for comparison. Some are better than others. Lachie Schultz anyone?

As for the slides, well yes I guess it does matter because picks have quantitative value also and there's no guarantee that any club WILL match a specific bid > although they usually do in the first round.

 

[Taylor]

guess that depends on which historical trades you are using for comparison.

Dylan Shiel is the best one. AA and under contract. Was trending towards being the best player in the league if you can remember that far back, bursting out of packs - before his injuries.

Went for pick #9 and a future first in return for Shiel and a future second round pick.

So that would be #9 and F1 from Freo for Bolton and Richmond's future 2nd, or third given Richmond's second isn't projecting to be much later than Fremantle's future first.

 

[pK75]

I guess that depends on which historical trades you are using for comparison. Some are better than others. Lachie Schultz anyone?

As for the slides, well yes I guess it does matter because picks have quantitative value also and there's no guarantee that any club WILL match a specific bid > although they usually do in the first round.

Pick sliding for FA compo absolutely affects the player taken, pick sliding for FS/Academy bid matching doesn’t really as no one is considering Ashcroft, Lombard, Kako or Marshal as an option to take as they all know the club will match (possibly not if someone goes Kako before the bombers first pick) but you get what I’m saying. Pick 9 is still the 9th best player on the open market regardless of if they get taken at 10,11 or 13

 

[Andyy]

Andyy - Why isn't Bolton popular this year at Richmond?


I have seen a few comments like the below. Could Yze just not handle him?

Was his head already 3/4 out the door.
Does he not have the mentality to play for a bottom 4 side

Were these issues around in previous years? If not, why?

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/wreckit-ralph-every-victorian-club-ranked-based-on-how-important-their-trade-period-is/news-story/d48b09c945008424a5484c0c0cb15c26

Richmond players believed he ran his own race while he believed the game plan wasn’t clear enough.

Oh I still think he was popular. To be honest I think it's amazing (and sad) how quickly the mob turns on it's own when the cup is empty again, although that's not been the case for me and I largely remain satisfied after our dynasty.

I think with such a poor year on field and so many injuries to the players the fans just started getting frustrated. At the coach (in his first year lmao), the S&C coach (and fair enough), any star player not playing to AA level such as Bolton, Nankervis for being the captain despite having a pretty good year etc etc.

Was his head out the door? Maybe. Maybe he just doesn't fair well in a spoon side. Bolton looked frustrated at times too, but unfortunately him him that sometimes turns into conceding a 50m penalty. It's hard to know if he doesn't have the maturity or resilience to play in a bottom 4 side after 1 season. Maybe not. Or maybe he just wants to move back to WA for family reasons (2nd kid on the way I think?).




I don't know if it has anything to do with Yze. Time will tell. My impression of Yze is that he's a new senior coach coming into a big club with a recent dynasty and is learning the ropes, needs as much support as possible. Some fans are calling for his head around the bye, laughable.

Imagine being him; inheriting a list with ageing premiership players heading for or recently retired (Cotchin, Riewoldt, Tarrant, Grimes, Dusty, Pickett), slim draft picks because of recent success and poor trading (Taranto + Hopper), terrible injury run and a seemingly incompetent S&C coach.

2024 was the long-awaited cliff waiting to happen. I don't blame Yze at all.

 

[Taylor]

Jacob Hopper

22

Jacob Hopper

Age

27

Ht

187cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.0

5star

K

9.9

4star

HB

11.1

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.5

5star

CL

4.3

5star

D

17.6

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

8.9

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

4.6

5star

CL

4.0

5star

D

18.6

5star

K

8.4

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.4

5star

was another player traded under contract.

Hopper and #53, #63 for Future 1st and #31

 

[Andyy]

Pick sliding for FA compo absolutely affects the player taken, pick sliding for FS/Academy bid matching doesn’t really as no one is considering Ashcroft, Lombard, Kako or Marshal as an option to take as they all know the club will match (possibly not if someone goes Kako before the bombers first pick) but you get what I’m saying. Pick 9 is still the 9th best player on the open market regardless of if they get taken at 10,11 or 13

I guess we see this differently, but there's more a pick than the open market options. They are bargaining chips.

Imagine, for example, being Brisbane and having a phone call to Richmond about whether or not they'll need to match a #1 bid? As opposed to matching a bid from a club with #5?

What if Brisbane needs capital to match a #1 bid and someone else is offering to trade them a point surplus, but that surplus diminishes due to 2-3 slides beforehand?

I'm confident these conversations happen and there's more to it that '9th best player on the open market'. Lots of variables I suspect most clubs would look at 9+10 this year and say 'well that's basically 11+12 at least'.

Dylan Shiel is the best one. AA and under contract. Was trending towards being the best player in the league if you can remember that far back, bursting out of packs - before his injuries.

Went for pick #9 and a future first in return for Shiel and a future second round pick.

So that would be #9 and F1 from Freo for Bolton and Richmond's future 2nd, or third given Richmond's second isn't projecting to be much later than Fremantle's future first.

Fair post.

My only feedback would be that I think over recent years we are seeing clubs show less value in picks and more value in established players. He was traded 6 years ago. Do you think that deal would satisfy GWS in today's climate? I'm not convinced.

 

[Andyy]

Jacob Hopper was another player traded under contract.

Hopper and #53, #63 for Future 1st and #31

Yep, we got reamed on that one.

He's a very different player to Bolton, much less coveted IMO, and can't stay on the park. He was also a partial salary dump and GWS knew his knee was cactus.

Worst trade we've done in years

 

[Spirit Level]

Hear me out.....

Is there any chance that NOD could develop into the burst mid that we wanted in Warner, and can therefore use the capital elsewhere?

 

[Joao]

Hear me out.....

Is there any chance that NOD could develop into the burst mid that we wanted in Warner, and can therefore use the capital elsewhere?

Probably not the ceiling, but yes, he could add a point of difference.

Bolton is the obvious one, he's better than handy in the middle.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Pick sliding for FA compo absolutely affects the player taken, pick sliding for FS/Academy bid matching doesn’t really as no one is considering Ashcroft, Lombard, Kako or Marshal as an option to take as they all know the club will match (possibly not if someone goes Kako before the bombers first pick) but you get what I’m saying. Pick 9 is still the 9th best player on the open market regardless of if they get taken at 10,11 or 13

I disagree on this slightly, just not for this draft. You take into account who will be available at the pick prior to trading, particularly top picks. If the top 10 for one year is all Academy or F/S then pick 1 has a lot less value than normal because of the talent at the pick.

On.the night though, it doesn't matter where bids come. It's a bit of an odd one but only way I can get my head around it making sense.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Hear me out.....

Is there any chance that NOD could develop into the burst mid that we wanted in Warner, and can therefore use the capital elsewhere?

The hill I will die on and why I won't give up on it is that we are far far better off with Bolton/Pickett then Bolton/Warner

 

[mattis117]

Wish we could completely **** up a pick as high as Luko over and over again and it not be a big deal. Imagine that.

What the hell are you talking about? They've never made finals!

 

[Spirit Level]

The hill I will die on and why I won't give up on it is that we are far far better off with Bolton/Pickett then Bolton/Warner

Yeah this is where I'm at, we also have Ras and Simpson rising through the ranks and way more glaring list needs than the midfield.

I'm happy to wait till next year when he's OOC and see how NOD, Simpson and Ras develop.

Remember we were all keen on McDonald then Treacy had a breakout year and we didn't need him anymore allowing us to spend capital elsewhere, who's to say the same thing won't happen next year with NOD.

 

[pK75]

I guess we see this differently, but there's more a pick than the open market options. They are bargaining chips.

Imagine, for example, being Brisbane and having a phone call to Richmond about whether or not they'll need to match a #1 bid? As opposed to matching a bid from a club with #5?

What if Brisbane needs capital to match a #1 bid and someone else is offering to trade them a point surplus, but that surplus diminishes due to 2-3 slides beforehand?

I'm confident these conversations happen and there's more to it that '9th best player on the open market'. Lots of variables I suspect most clubs would look at 9+10 this year and say 'well that's basically 11+12 at least'.




Fair post.

My only feedback would be that I think over recent years we are seeing clubs show less value in picks and more value in established players. He was traded 6 years ago. Do you think that deal would satisfy GWS in today's climate? I'm not convinced.

Not sure you understand how point sliding works? If the Bid comes at pick 1, no picks have moved yet!
If Ascroft is still the first player bid on at 5, again no picks have moved yet, 9 is still 9 until the bid is matched.

 

[FreoRicci]

Take this with a grain of salt..

Out of all the small forwards, that is who we chose?
He’s not even that much better than Schulz.
Hope isn’t true

 

[Joao]

Out of all the small forwards, that is who we chose?
He’s not even that much better than Schulz.
Hope isn’t true

He's not better than Schultz at all, would take Shoota easily.

 

[Docker82]

What the hell are you talking about? They've never made finals!

I think it's pretty obvious. They still have two ten KPFs on their list - If we ****ed up that pick we'd be waiting a generation for another opportunity.

Honestly give the administration of any other club in the comp the concessions Gold Coast have got and give them Hardwick as coach and they'd be setting themselves up for a Hawthorn/Richmond style dynasty by now.

As things stand I'm not convinced they'll ever make finals - no soul, players don't play for the club.

 

[freo84]

Dan Houston

5

Dan Houston

Age

27

Ht

186cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.2

5star

K

11.8

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.0

5star

MG

289.2

4star

D

17.6

4star

K

11.6

4star

HB

6.0

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.4

4star

MG

319.9

5star

D

16.6

4star

K

12.4

5star

HB

4.2

4star

M

7.0

5star

T

2.6

4star

MG

279.8

5star

requested a trade to Victoria after saying he was staying....

 

[Suma Says]

Something I dont see mentioned enough is the strength of this draft needs to be factored in to any package we potentially give up for Bolton/Pickett/Warner.

Picks 9, 10, 16 and even 27 hold greater value in this draft than in any normal draft.

Theres a reason all teams are desperate to get more first rounders this year. Why Carlton would apparently rather pass on Houston than give up pick 11.

This strength of draft, combined with the fact other teams are so actively hunting for more first round picks increases the value of our picks

 

[s_wd6]

Dan Houston requested a trade to Victoria after saying he was staying....

Your turn now Kozzie

 

[Taylor]

Dan Houston requested a trade to Victoria after saying he was staying....

Would you prefer:

He wants to go to Melbourne and we offer them picks for Pickett to make it happen,

He wants to go to Richmond and the Bolton trade appears cheaper,

He wants to go to North and we offer them picks for their future first to make it happen,

He wants to go to Carlton and we don't get invovled?

 

[Cobbler]

Teams will come hard for our picks by virtue of the fact we have plenty of picks to come hard at.

We should just remove day pick 10 from all discussions.

Keep that up our sleeve.

Bolton and 29 for 9 and 16 is solid for all.