Game Day 2024 Malcolm Blight Medal - Congratulations Ben Keays & Jordan Dawson

[Apsaalooke]

Personally feel that “least important” is far too extreme but agree overall you don’t need a good-elite ruckman to win. BUT a poor one - see Strachans pathetic effort vs Tigers - means you get dominated and can be a massive part of losing. Much more than a poor performance from a hff or winger for example.

Strachan was OK before the new rule that says rucks could grab each other and wrestle, which means the beanpoles like him and English just get tossed aside. Don't rate ROB much but least he doesn't get ragdolled at every contest.

 

[Mutineer]

Not sure that helps your defence of ROB not finishing top 10 for 3 years running or being dropped twice 2 years running.

Oscar made the top 10 of the premiers.
English had an average year and just finished outside the top 10 for a finalist and how did he go last year?
Nank finished 3rd, a quality player finishing high in a bottom team is what you would expect. How did ROB fair in the 15th ranked team?

I'm not defending ROB at all, for now he's our lead ruck for at least 1 more year or until we procure someone better.

Most clubs don't have star ruckman and I'm of the opinion like some others they don't need to be, but they must be highly competitive and aggressive.

Dodson would be a nice pick up because he appears to have the potential to be a star ruckman but it's not a given.
Hence given what we'd have to pay to get Dodson at this point I'm comfortable with looking to replace ROB/Strachan next year with a better mature aged option (if available at reasonable cost draft capital wise).
Personally I'd look to bring in youngster that goes undrafted via the SANFL new rules on a try before you buy basis next season. Flynn Penry hasn't had a lot of fanfare in the media so he could be an option...I do rate him as having AFL attributes worth developing.

 

[Geoffa32]

Lions just won a Premiership with Darcy Foot Rucking against Brodie Grundy

4

Brodie Grundy

Age

30

Ht

202cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

9.6

5star

CL

4.1

5star

HO

32.0

5star

D

16.4

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

9.6

5star

CL

4.0

5star

HO

34.6

5star

D

13.8

4star

K

5.2

2star

HB

8.6

5star

CL

2.6

5star

HO

20.6

5star

.

You don't need a Star Ruck. You just need one who is competitive.

 

[George Kramer]

I'm not defending ROB at all, for now he's our lead ruck for at least 1 more year or until we procure someone better.

Most clubs don't have star ruckman and I'm of the opinion like some others they don't need to be, but they must be highly competitive and aggressive.

Dodson would be a nice pick up because he appears to have the potential to be a star ruckman but it's not a given.
Hence given what we'd have to pay to get Dodson at this point I'm comfortable with looking to replace ROB/Strachan next year with a better mature aged option (if available at reasonable cost draft capital wise).
Personally I'd look to bring in youngster that goes undrafted via the SANFL new rules on a try before you buy basis next season. Flynn Penry hasn't had a lot of fanfare in the media so he could be an option...I do rate him as having AFL attributes worth developing.

But you are and have throughout the season. That’s why you posted last night about English not making their top ten and your post this morning. I get we are stuck with him but that doesn’t mean valid criticism of him during the year wasn’t valid and it’s now been supported again by the coaches.

Anyway I think we’ve both agreed we have needed some developing ruckman on our list and yet the club has continued to ignore that, so when ROB does get dropped we have someone with at least some development already to replace him. The thing with ROB and all senior players is they aren’t dropped after one or two bad games, we carry them for longer and in ROBs case it’s worse as we don’t have another option besides Strachan.

 

[Cromulant]

Lions just won a Premiership with Darcy Foot Rucking against Brodie Grundy.

You don't need a Star Ruck. You just need one who is competitive.

It must be said that Grundys form has fallen off a cliff since the bye.

Brisbane don't make the GF without Big O, but yes you don't need to be a star on the day. I mean the same can be said for a lot of positions bar midfield. Jack Payne played on 1 leg, Eric Hipwood was average besides a barely believable goal.

 

[George Kramer]

It must be said that Grundys form has fallen off a cliff since the bye.

Brisbane don't make the GF without Big O, but yes you don't need to be a star on the day. I mean the same can be said for a lot of positions bar midfield. Jack Payne played on 1 leg, Eric Hipwood was average besides a barely believable goal.

Warner, Goulden, Heney all sucked as did a number of Swans players. They laid 33 tackles. Brisbane didn’t win because Fort did ok against Grundy.

 

[Mutineer]

But you are and have throughout the season. That’s why you posted last night about English not making their top ten and your post this morning. I get we are stuck with him but that doesn’t mean valid criticism of him during the year wasn’t valid and it’s now been supported again by the coaches.

Anyway I think we’ve both agreed we have needed some developing ruckman on our list and yet the club has continued to ignore that, so when ROB does get dropped we have someone with at least some development already to replace him. The thing with ROB and all senior players is they aren’t dropped after one or two bad games, we carry them for longer and in ROBs case it’s worse as we don’t have another option besides Strachan.

Toby Murray was likely brought in for some insurance with them knowing Himmelberg was likely going but I see him more as a Forward/Ruck moreso than a Ruck/Forward and at least he's a competitor in ruck and already appears to have more core strength than Strachan to take on the AFL rucks.

 

[Mutineer]

Lions just won a Premiership with Darcy Foot Rucking against Brodie Grundy.

You don't need a Star Ruck. You just need one who is competitive.

Exactly.
A star ruckman like Gawn is an absolute bonus.

 

[George Kramer]

Toby Murray was likely brought in for some insurance with them knowing Himmelberg was likely going but I see him more as a Forward/Ruck moreso than a Ruck/Forward and at least he's a competitor in ruck and already appears to have more core strength than Strachan to take on the AFL rucks.

Agreed and no way Murray is replacing ROB if he sucks again next year. So despite all the other gains, if ROB has another poor year our improvement will be curtailed.

 

[Mutineer]

Agreed and no way Murray is replacing ROB if he sucks again next year. So despite all the other gains, if ROB has another poor year our improvement will be curtailed.

IF
I wouldn't be so sure that Toby doesn't get a run in the AFL team in the ruck if he's given more ruck opportunity to develop in the SANFL which is in the realm of possibilities

 

[FR0GGY]

Lions just won a Premiership with Darcy Foot Rucking against Brodie Grundy.

You don't need a Star Ruck. You just need one who is competitive.

If you had to pick Brisbane or Sydney’s midfield, most would go Sydney’s I would have thought, (certainly prior to the grand final) does that mean you don’t need the best midfield to win a grand final?

 

[Cromulant]

If you had to pick Brisbane or Sydney’s midfield, most would go Sydney’s I would have thought, (certainly prior to the grand final) does that mean you don’t need the best midfield to win a grand final?

Hmmmm Brisbane's midfield has a 2 x Brownlow winner in it, it's not too shabby.

Sydney's midfield haven't been great for the last 2 months

 

[FR0GGY]

Hmmmm Brisbane's midfield has a 2 x Brownlow winner in it, it's not too shabby.

Sydney's midfield haven't been great for the last 2 months

Brisbanes isn’t bad for sure, but I would have thought most would have picked Sydney’s.
If we use the brownlow, Sydney had 3 at the pointy end this year.

 

[Cromulant]

Brisbanes isn’t bad for sure, but I would have thought most would have picked Sydney’s.
If we use the brownlow, Sydney had 3 at the pointy end this year.

For sure those 3 are very good, reckon Brisbane's has more depth particularly with Ashcroft coming back later in the year

 

[iBeng]

Sorry for the intrusion, just wanted to give a shout out to Keays, glad he got a proper chance with you guys to show hes got the talent for AFL level!

 

[Dewy006]

Keays would get a game in side a lot better than ours.

Sure, I agree, But in how many of those sides is he winning the BnF?

 

[Captain Furious]

Thought Hinge was a soda for top 5. Couldn’t argue with the top 3 though.

 

[Cromulant]

Sure, I agree, But in how many of those sides is he winning the BnF?

Based on form this year, a few.

Very unlucky to miss the AA40

 

[George Kramer]

Based on form this year, a few.

Very unlucky to miss the AA40

Really? Who?

 

[AFC979810]

If you had to pick Brisbane or Sydney’s midfield, most would go Sydney’s I would have thought, (certainly prior to the grand final) does that mean you don’t need the best midfield to win a grand final?

That's one single example.

9 of the last 10 premiership winners haven't had a dominant ruckman. 5 of the last 10 losing grand finalists haven't had a dominant ruckman.

14 of the past 20 top two teams haven't thought that ruckman were important.

And those teams who had an important ruckman (Melbourne 2021/ Sydney 2024 / Oscar 2024 / Crows 2017) all had ruckman come from the 3rd round or an insignificant trade.

There were 2 ruckman who were heavily invested in - Nic Nat (pick 1) wasn't top 10 for WC in their 2018 flag year (and got injured for the GF and was replaced by Nathan Vardy). He was 8th the year they lost to Hawthorn in the GF. The one positive example was Grundy taken at pick 18 who won Collingwoods B&F in 2018 and was a superstar.

Compare how many ruckman were taken in the top 10 from 2000 - 2013 to how many have been taken from 2014 - 2024. The AFL is learning - ruckman aren't worth the investment.

 

[AFC979810]

Lions just won a Premiership with Darcy Foot Rucking against Brodie Grundy.

You don't need a Star Ruck. You just need one who is competitive.

31 year old - 36 game Darcy Fort won a flag. Last year Mason Cox was the lead ruckman for the premiers. Year before it was Rhys Stanley. Case closed.

 

[FR0GGY]

That's one single example.

9 of the last 10 premiership winners haven't had a dominant ruckman. 5 of the last 10 losing grand finalists haven't had a dominant ruckman.

14 of the past 20 top two teams haven't thought that ruckman were important.

And those teams who had an important ruckman (Melbourne 2021/ Sydney 2024 / Oscar 2024 / Crows 2017) all had ruckman come from the 3rd round or an insignificant trade.

There were 2 ruckman who were heavily invested in - Nic Nat (pick 1) wasn't top 10 for WC in their 2018 flag year (and got injured for the GF and was replaced by Nathan Vardy). He was 8th the year they lost to Hawthorn in the GF. The one positive example was Grundy taken at pick 18 who won Collingwoods B&F in 2018 and was a superstar.

Compare how many ruckman were taken in the top 10 from 2000 - 2013 to how many have been taken from 2014 - 2024. The AFL is learning - ruckman aren't worth the investment.

Im definitely not suggesting to spend high picks on one, but I definitely believe we can upgrade and it will help.
Rob is a lumbering dinosaur that can’t kick and lost his marking ability.
You don’t need a ruck like that these days.

 

[FR0GGY]

31 year old - 36 game Darcy Fort won a flag. Last year Mason Cox was the lead ruckman for the premiers. Year before it was Rhys Stanley. Case closed.

I think you’ll find it was Darcy given he got 50% more hit outs than Cox.
2022 Blicavs had almost as many as Stanley so it was pretty well split 50/50
Which also shows that teams are going with two mobile rucks not 1 lumbering one.

 

[1970crow]

Lions just won a Premiership with Darcy Foot Rucking against Brodie Grundy.

You don't need a Star Ruck. You just need one who is competitive.

Would they have made the GF without O rucking all year though?

 

[1970crow]

That's one single example.

9 of the last 10 premiership winners haven't had a dominant ruckman. 5 of the last 10 losing grand finalists haven't had a dominant ruckman.

14 of the past 20 top two teams haven't thought that ruckman were important.

And those teams who had an important ruckman (Melbourne 2021/ Sydney 2024 / Oscar 2024 / Crows 2017) all had ruckman come from the 3rd round or an insignificant trade.

There were 2 ruckman who were heavily invested in - Nic Nat (pick 1) wasn't top 10 for WC in their 2018 flag year (and got injured for the GF and was replaced by Nathan Vardy). He was 8th the year they lost to Hawthorn in the GF. The one positive example was Grundy taken at pick 18 who won Collingwoods B&F in 2018 and was a superstar.

Compare how many ruckman were taken in the top 10 from 2000 - 2013 to how many have been taken from 2014 - 2024. The AFL is learning - ruckman aren't worth the investment.

Which makes valuing one based on nothing other than hitouts even more insane.