List Mgmt. 2024 National Draft - November 20-21

[Jen2310]

 

[loki04]

Didn't we have a Faull play with us in years gone by?. Anyway, Jonty would be one I hope we're looking at

With which pick?

 

[loki04]

I come in peace my fellow Big 4 brethren.

Passing on that Collingwood are VERY keen on Bo Allan per his folks.

I’m not sure if that means you think he’ll slide to your first pick (unlikely?) or if you anticipate trading back into where he’s projected to be via Noble trade.

Is he related to Ed Allan?

 

[loki04]

I’m an Armstrong/ Shanahan fan myself and I suspect your mate could be on to something with the Whitlock’s. Again though the depth of this draft is bonkers Marshall at 29, Smillie at 10 and Reid at 16.

For anyone that’s super into it is Tauru still in Hawthorn’s academy? By my count there’s at least 5 possibilities for pick shuffling ahead of 20 if that was the outcome of the Noble trade.

Yeah Shanahan and Armstrong looks the goods from the little I've seen.

Like Tauru and Faull not bad either.

Pitty we didn't load up on talls this draft like we did in the Reid, Brown and Dawes draft which set up our 2010/11/12 spine.

 

[manicpie]

With which pick?

Between 20 and 30

 

[loki04]

He's a powerful lad who looks like he's got a nice blend of inside/outside. I like the thought of him and Nick together in the middle

Needs make sure of his field kicks, a lot of them went off target in those videos but overall seems a good prospect.
Think the field kicking is correctable.

 

[loki04]

Between 20 and 30

Where are Armstrong, Shanahan, Faull and Tarau rated?

 

[loki04]

Not us though.

 

[manicpie]

Where are Armstrong, Shanahan, Faull and Tarau rated?

Armstrong and Shanahan are rated between 10 and 20. Faull and sims are 20 to 30. Tarau I'm not sure about. The ideal pick would be Shanahan but he might be out of reach

 

[manicpie]

Is he related to Ed Allan?

No relation

 

[loki04]

I love watching Baker play. Put him anywhere and you're winning that position. Will be fantastic for WCE if he gets thera and probably be captain within a couple of years. He won't get much press, but he'll be like Ward has been for GWS.

I'd refer to him as a very good B grader like Schultz.

Imo A graders are your Sidebums of the world.

 

[loki04]

Yeah, all good. I struggle to identify talent just like every other pundit. I just like to give an opinion but I'm far from right most times

We all rate not only players differently but roles in teams differently as do clubs and coaches.

Sometimes a role change can make a B grader an A grader and vice versa.

Personally B grade are above an average player like a C grader in imo Lipinski, but below a A grader like Sidebottom.

For mine Schultz and Baker fit in the good B grader category ie better then average.

 

[manicpie]

We all rate not only players differently but roles in teams differently as do clubs and coaches.

Sometimes a role change can make a B grader an A grader and vice versa.

Personally B grade are above an average player like a C grader in imo Lipinski, but below a A grader like Sidebottom.

For mine Schultz and Baker fit in the good B grader category ie better then average.

When you consider that Lippa finished 6th in our B&F, it kinda puts our perspective out of whack. 6th in the Copeland would suggest A grade but to me, Lippa is a C grader at best. If we're comparing Lippa to baker, then baker must be elite.

 

[loki04]

When you consider that Lippa finished 6th in our B&F, it kinda puts our perspective out of whack. 6th in the Copeland would suggest A grade but to me, Lippa is a C grader at best. If we're comparing Lippa to baker, then baker must be elite.

Yeah I think many were very very surprised at that result only the rusted on Lip supporters thought it was reasonable.

Lots of injuries to players also makes BnF finishes somewhat out of kilter sometimes. Reckon that played a part in how high he finished.
He does a lot of running to gaurd field position maybe club rates it with higher regard then we do.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Imo 195 to 197cm Athletic fwds are still the best ones.

Prefer that then Whitlocks who move like rucks 200cm plus types.

J.Cameron, C.Curnow, Hogan types vs T.Lynch, P.Wright, Mackay types.

I'd near on always pick the first lot.

Feels like you've cherry picked the big ones to make your point, slotting in Peter Wright instead of Joe Daniher, the King twins and Nick Larkey.

 

[manicpie]

Yeah I think many were very very surprised at that result only the rusted on Lip supporters thought it was reasonable.

Lots of injuries to players also makes BnF finishes somewhat out of kilter sometimes. Reckon that played a part in how high he finished.
He does a lot of running to gaurd field position maybe club rates it with higher regard then we do.

Good point. We don't understand the inner workings of the club. On the other hand, if clubs had to choose between baker and Lippa then the more flamboyant and all round better player like baker is going to demand the most attention. Role players are vital in today's footy but they don't demand the same attention as players who are also good role players but have a point of difference.

 

[loki04]

Feels like you've cherry picked the big ones to make your point, slotting in Peter Wright instead of Joe Daniher, the King twins and Nick Larkey.

Go for it. Switch them out.
Larkey is on the edge of the 197cm more then 200 plus.
He's 198cm and I'd put him in my group.


Compare the best 3 of each.

Jez vs Daniher
Hogan vs M.King
Curnow vs H.Mackay
JUH vs Lynch
Naughton vs P.Wright
Larkey vs B.King

The traditional sizes imo are better on average and better at more parts of the game overall including roving own spills.

 

[sr36]

Imo 195 to 197cm Athletic fwds are still the best ones.

Prefer that then Whitlocks who move like rucks 200cm plus types.

J.Cameron, C.Curnow, Hogan types vs T.Lynch, P.Wright, Mackay types.

I'd near on always pick the first lot.

I like the structure of a big bloke for the hotspot and a mobile roaming bloke playing higher up the ground

 

[manicpie]

Go for it. Switch them out.
Larkey is on the edge of the 197cm more then 200 plus.
He's 198cm and I'd put him in my group.


Compare the best 3 of each.

Jez vs Daniher
Hogan vs M.King
Curnow vs H.Mackay
JUH vs Lynch
Naughton vs P.Wright
Larkey vs B.King

The traditional sizes imo are better on average and better at more parts of the game overall including roving own spills.

I agree. The 200cm forwards are few and far between. The king twins are hardly superstars and Daniher is an enigma. It's when the ball hits the ground that really big ones get found out. 195 to 197cm is the more damaging prototype.

 

[loki04]

I like the structure of a big bloke for the hotspot and a mobile roaming bloke playing higher up the ground

Yeah depends on how they launch at the ball for mine.

Just because they are tall doesn't mean they aren't piss weak in a contest look at Mason Cox. When he gets off the chain it is invariably on a lead not sitting under a contested high ball of which 9 out of 10 times he gets pushed under it

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Go for it. Switch them out.
Larkey is on the edge of the 197cm more then 200 plus.
He's 198cm and I'd put him in my group.


Compare the best 3 of each.

Jez vs Daniher
Hogan vs M.King
Curnow vs H.Mackay
JUH vs Lynch
Naughton vs P.Wright
Larkey vs B.King

The traditional sizes imo are better on average and better at more parts of the game overall including roving own spills.

Oh so you get to just claim Larkey despite the fact that he's taller than your stated range and regularly backs up the ruck?

Seems easy to win an argument when you keep moving the goalposts.

My point is not that taller forwards are better, just that they're worth having. Other than Peter Wright, who is so mediocre that you don't need to include him in this conversation, every one of those players listed, at their best (obviously, Daniher is retired and Lynch is chronically injured at this point), would make our forward line way better, and they would instantly be our number one option.

You're acting like we have the luxury of choosing between a bevy of talented key forward options. I don't care if they're a 194cm mobile type or a 200cm ruck/forward, we just need to get some young guys onto the list to develop.

The important thing is to take swings and get one to pan out, as opposed to our former/current strategy of never draft a key position player in the National Draft and then having our coach see "gee, we'd like a key forward".

 

[JuniorB]

Yeah I think many were very very surprised at that result only the rusted on Lip supporters thought it was reasonable.

Lots of injuries to players also makes BnF finishes somewhat out of kilter sometimes. Reckon that played a part in how high he finished.
He does a lot of running to gaurd field position maybe club rates it with higher regard then we do.

Lippa's disposal is high quality, and he does a lot of unrewarded stuff, not dissimilar to WHE when the latter was the general whipping boy.
Lippa isn't a hard nut like Bruzzy, or explosive like Jordy, so some of his work goes a bit unnoticed.

 

[sr36]

Yeah depends on how they launch at the ball for mine.

Just because they are tall doesn't mean they aren't piss weak in a contest look at Mason Cox. When he gets off the chain it is invariably on a lead not sitting under a contested high ball of which 9 out of 10 times he gets pushed under it

Yeah I didn't really mean height. I meant more skillset, eg Daniher is mobile and McStay is more your big bloke for the hotspot. So I'd put McStay in your tall group, but Daniher in the smaller group in terms of how they can play.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Lippa's disposal is high quality, and he does a lot of unrewarded stuff, not dissimilar to WHE when the latter was the general whipping boy.
Lippa isn't a hard nut like Bruzzy, or explosive like Jordy, so some of his work goes a bit unnoticed.

Honestly I think one of the biggest things holding Lippa back from officially being at the level of WHE as a reliable dogsbody utility is that his running is not quite at the same level, but I've seen that he's been training with Mitchell, IQ and the Daicos boys this off-season, so hopefully he's trying to take that up a notch.

 

[JuniorB]

Honestly I think one of the biggest things holding Lippa back from officially being at the level of WHE as a reliable dogsbody utility is that his running is not quite at the same level, but I've seen that he's been training with Mitchell, IQ and the Daicos boys this off-season, so hopefully he's trying to take that up a notch.

He's a good endurance runner, but not as quick as Hyphen.
Good to see he's working on it.

 

[loki04]

Oh so you get to just claim Larkey despite the fact that he's taller than your stated range and regularly backs up the ruck?

Seems easy to win an argument when you keep moving the goalposts.

My point is not that taller forwards are better, just that they're worth having. Other than Peter Wright, who is so mediocre that you don't need to include him in this conversation, every one of those players listed, at their best (obviously, Daniher is retired and Lynch is chronically injured at this point), would make our forward line way better, and they would instantly be our number one option.

You're acting like we have the luxury of choosing between a bevy of talented key forward options. I don't care if they're a 194cm mobile type or a 200cm ruck/forward, we just need to get some young guys onto the list to develop.

The important thing is to take swings and get one to pan out, as opposed to our former/current strategy of never draft a key position player in the National Draft and then having our coach see "gee, we'd like a key forward".

Oh so a single cm puts him in your UBER tall group simply because he chops out in the ruck occasionally?

He is a forward and play his best there.

When I say 194 to 197 it's give or take a cm, Curnow is less then 194cm too but I listed him as he plays tall.
Similarly larkey plays like the sub 197s.

Obviously any are better then none, but my post said ID prefer and always go the players within those ranges with talent being close.

This draft they have a heap of kpf in the 10 to 30 bracket which is what I was referring too. If we have the picks we may also have the choice that you spoke of.