Training 2024 Preseason training reports and discussion

[mpal6]

Just can't visualise Dizzy playing forward for some reason...

I can ! Dizz has to continue playing a lockdown defender role on Moore, Aliir etc.

 

[mpal6]

I wouldn't be discounting Lyons. He looks fit in the limited pics ive seen. If his body is right and he's running freely he could feature early in the season. Tunstill also a chance I'd hope. I would have expected Devs role to be mid/def fwd this year, not mid/wing. Wing doesn't suit him at all. With Berry, Fletcher, Clugg at times and Wilmot even Kiddy rotating thru the wing while not in the backs, I think wing is pretty well covered.

That'll be an awesome way to start the season - 100 games as a Lion for Lyons.

 

[Nunez]

Rayner ready to don the Mr. Plow jacket and mow his way through opposition mids.

 

[On the quiet]

Rayner ready to don the Mr. Plow jacket and mow his way through opposition mids.

I hope this is the year, but as fit as Cam is looking, perhaps he just does not have the endurance to be a fulltime mid. Recent stats indicate he is very effective when in the midfield, but seems to me is a power athlete. So perhaps a similar role to last year with stints in the middle. I prefer Cam as our third tall, and when required some time in the middle

I mentioned sometime back, that perhaps Lester or Gardiner might train and play forward in some of the match sims for this year. Seems coaches still not settled on the permanent third tall. That said, Cam trained in the backs last year IIRC, so as 'mighty lions' alluded Gardiner wont play forward... However, I cannot see when Doedee is fit, Payne is 100% fit, where Gardiner (even Lester) fits into the back 7.

 

[Dalions]

 

[Nunez]

I hope this is the year, but as fit as Cam is looking, perhaps he just does not have the endurance to be a fulltime mid. Recent stats indicate he is very effective when in the midfield, but seems to me is a power athlete. So perhaps a similar role to last year with stints in the middle. I prefer Cam as our third tall, and when required some time in the middle

I mentioned sometime back, that perhaps Lester or Gardiner might train and play forward in some of the match sims for this year. Seems coaches still not settled on the permanent third tall. That said, Cam trained in the backs last year IIRC, so as 'mighty lions' alluded Gardiner wont play forward... However, I cannot see when Doedee is fit, Payne is 100% fit, where Gardiner (even Lester) fits into the back 7.

I don't think Cam will ever be a full time mid, but finally looks like he's got the fitness to spend genuine time there each quarter. Can be very damaging around the ball then sink forward and dominate a defender.

 

[Berrygood]

I don't think Cam will ever be a full time mid, but finally looks like he's got the fitness to spend genuine time there each quarter. Can be very damaging around the ball then sink forward and dominate a defender.

I don't think Cam can be a full time mid either. I don't think I'd want him to be. He adds so much as a fwd. I reckon if he can reach the fitness to play 1/3 of his game time in the midfield and take a bit of ownership of that 3rd/ med tall role, we'll see the best of him. He may not need to play a third of his game in the midfield but that's all we need out of him there.

 

[Berrygood]

I hope this is the year, but as fit as Cam is looking, perhaps he just does not have the endurance to be a fulltime mid. Recent stats indicate he is very effective when in the midfield, but seems to me is a power athlete. So perhaps a similar role to last year with stints in the middle. I prefer Cam as our third tall, and when required some time in the middle

I mentioned sometime back, that perhaps Lester or Gardiner might train and play forward in some of the match sims for this year. Seems coaches still not settled on the permanent third tall. That said, Cam trained in the backs last year IIRC, so as 'mighty lions' alluded Gardiner wont play forward... However, I cannot see when Doedee is fit, Payne is 100% fit, where Gardiner (even Lester) fits into the back 7.

Like you, I prefer Cam in a fwd role with stints in the middle when needed.

As to where Gardiner and Lester fit in the back 7 when Doedee is fit. I don't think they do. Darcy gets his opportunity to start the season, I think he will over Lester, if he goes well and we're winning I think we can be a bit more cautious with Doedee. We can get him 100%, build his load in the ressies. I read Doedee could be ready round 4 or 5, but if Darcy is killing it, I could see him earning a few more. For Doedee a few stints in the ressies, a cpl of games in the firsts before the bye. Assess the knee over the week off and if it's all good I think he takes over the role.

For Gardiner and Lester, we've seen how susceptible 3 tall defenders are to short and medium term injuries, they have to be ready and engaged to slot in when needed. If Joyce can tighten up his game and eliminate the free kicks, we're in such a good position with our tall backs compared to last season.

Our back 7 should be a real strength this year. There's quality tall depth and sm/med depth. Gardiner, Lester, Joyce, Prior, Madden, Ah Chee, all capable and great support for Andrews, Payne, Doedee, Starce, McKenna, Kiddy and Wilmot. I think that's a squad more than capable of winning a flag.

 

[Section 5]

In my opinion i don't think Rayner will be spending much more time in the midfield this year.
Cam actually attended less CBA's in 2023 (56) than in 2022 (176).
This may not change much in 2024.
Be interesting to see what unfolds with Cam though.
I imagine should Cam be used as our 3rd tall, his CBA numbers will drop a bit.

Neale our main guy.
Dunkley took Lyons place in the 2023 side.
Will Ashcroft in his first year until injured ahead of McCluggage.
Zorko numbers likely to decrease with Baily increasing in 2024.

Below figures from CBAs - DFS Australia

For Year 2023
Total CBA's Attended


For year 2022

 

[Nunez]

In my opinion i don't think Rayner will be spending much more time in the midfield this year.
Cam actually attended less CBA's in 2023 (56) than in 2022 (176).
This may not change much in 2024.
Be interesting to see what unfolds with Cam though.
I imagine should Cam be used as our 3rd tall, his CBA numbers will drop a bit.

Neale our main guy.
Dunkley took Lyons place in the 2023 side.
Will Ashcroft in his first year until injured ahead of McCluggage.
Zorko numbers likely to decrease with Baily increasing in 2024.

Below figures from CBAs - DFS Australia

For Year 2023
Total CBA's Attended
View attachment 1893369

For year 2022
View attachment 1893364

Get on board the Cam CBA train friend. I haven't been this excited since Jack ' Elixuh ' Gunston kicked a bag against the Eagles.

 

[Elixuh]

In my opinion i don't think Rayner will be spending much more time in the midfield this year.
Cam actually attended less CBA's in 2023 (56) than in 2022 (176).
This may not change much in 2024.
Be interesting to see what unfolds with Cam though.
I imagine should Cam be used as our 3rd tall, his CBA numbers will drop a bit.

Neale our main guy.
Dunkley took Lyons place in the 2023 side.
Will Ashcroft in his first year until injured ahead of McCluggage.
Zorko numbers likely to decrease with Baily increasing in 2024.

Below figures from CBAs - DFS Australia

For Year 2023
Total CBA's Attended
View attachment 1893369

For year 2022
View attachment 1893364

Our midfield is our weakest area and lacks power and burst spread. Rayner is the only one who can give us that. Think De Goey, Stringer, Petracca. Having a rayner geared setup helps our versatility + combat other setups oppo throw at us.

 

[Nunez]

Our midfield is our weakest area and lacks power and burst spread. Rayner is the only one who can give us that. Think De Goey, Stringer, Petracca. Having a rayner geared setup helps our versatility + combat other setups oppo throw at us.

He's ready

 

[Jivlain]

Our midfield is our weakest area and lacks power and burst spread. Rayner is the only one who can give us that. Think De Goey, Stringer, Petracca. Having a rayner geared setup helps our versatility + combat other setups oppo throw at us.

On the other hand, Dunkley is more aerodynamic now

 

[Section 5]

Our midfield is doing fine in my opinion.
I believe we are still 1 good winger short but reasonably okay in that area now.
A lot will depend on who takes Ashcrofts spot from round 1.
I just think McCluggage gets more time in the middle and the remainder time taken up by the usual guys.

If Rayner gets a lot of time in the midfield in the upcoming match sims, intra club and preseason games i may be convinced.
Showing he can cope in trial games with a lot of midfield time would help his cause. If that is the coaches' intentions.
Dev's spot up for grabs round 0, so a small surprise may be on the cards.

The other issue is will we revert back to 3 tall forwards or use Rayner as that 3rd tall.

I think the majority on BF would prefer we stay with Rayner as the 3rd tall. That's going on posts leading up to the GF.
I on the other hand think they may try and find that 3rd tall from one of our new guys.
It will be up to them to show they can handle the role.
However, the coaches would have to make up their mind (3rd tall or not) going into the 2 official preseason games.
You don't want to go into round zero without your intended setup getting a run together.
Something to look forward to in the preseason and see what the coaches settle on come round 0.

Lions were the top clearance side of 2023. In total (CL), center (CCL) and stoppage (SCL) clearances.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Our midfield is doing fine in my opinion.
I believe we are still 1 good winger short but reasonably okay in that area now.
A lot will depend on who takes Ashcrofts spot from round 1.
I just think McCluggage gets more time in the middle and the remainder time taken up by the usual guys.

If Rayner gets a lot of time in the midfield in the upcoming match sims, intra club and preseason games i may be convinced.
Showing he can cope in trial games with a lot of midfield time would help his cause. If that is the coaches' intentions.
Dev's spot up for grabs round 0, so a small surprise may be on the cards.

The other issue is will we revert back to 3 tall forwards or use Rayner as that 3rd tall.

I think the majority on BF would prefer we stay with Rayner as the 3rd tall. That's going on posts leading up to the GF.
I on the other hand think they may try and find that 3rd tall from one of our new guys.
It will be up to them to show they can handle the role.
However, the coaches would have to make up their mind (3rd tall or not) going into the 2 official preseason games.
You don't want to go into round zero without your intended setup getting a run together.
Something to look forward to in the preseason and see what the coaches settle on come round 0.

Lions were the top clearance side of 2023. In total (CL), center (CCL) and stoppage (SCL) clearances.

View attachment 1893525

we play in games with a lot of clearances. Our clearance differential isn’t great

would be like calling the bulldogs the best marking team

 

[Elixuh]

Our midfield is doing fine in my opinion.
I believe we are still 1 good winger short but reasonably okay in that area now.
A lot will depend on who takes Ashcrofts spot from round 1.
I just think McCluggage gets more time in the middle and the remainder time taken up by the usual guys.

If Rayner gets a lot of time in the midfield in the upcoming match sims, intra club and preseason games i may be convinced.
Showing he can cope in trial games with a lot of midfield time would help his cause. If that is the coaches' intentions.
Dev's spot up for grabs round 0, so a small surprise may be on the cards.

The other issue is will we revert back to 3 tall forwards or use Rayner as that 3rd tall.

I think the majority on BF would prefer we stay with Rayner as the 3rd tall. That's going on posts leading up to the GF.
I on the other hand think they may try and find that 3rd tall from one of our new guys.
It will be up to them to show they can handle the role.
However, the coaches would have to make up their mind (3rd tall or not) going into the 2 official preseason games.
You don't want to go into round zero without your intended setup getting a run together.
Something to look forward to in the preseason and see what the coaches settle on come round 0.

Lions were the top clearance side of 2023. In total (CL), center (CCL) and stoppage (SCL) clearances.

View attachment 1893525

I don’t think it’s about hard stats. Our midfield struggles against certain oppo rotations, especially that powerful burst spread imo. We need to have that rotation in our toolkit to wrestle momentum. He also would force accountability and allow our other guns to get off the chain.

 

[rye]

we play in games with a lot of clearances. Our clearance differential isn’t great

would be like calling the bulldogs the best marking team

we had the best clearance differential in the competition last year

top 5 for reference on a per game basis

Brisbane +6.5
Footscray +4.9
Gold Coast +2.5
Melbourne +2.0
Carlton +1.8

despite this i still want rayner to be in the middle more - he is a point of difference player and one of our most damaging with ball in hand. more time around the ball should hopefully lead to him having a greater opportunity to impact games

 

[Section 5]

I don’t think it’s about hard stats. Our midfield struggles against certain oppo rotations, especially that powerful burst spread imo. We need to have that rotation in our toolkit to wrestle momentum. He also would force accountability and allow our other guns to get off the chain.

I understand that stats are just that.
They tell a story that can have different interpretations.
We did lose the GF but beat every team in the competition bar the Hawks last year.

I have not heard how Rayner has proven he can do this type of role and fit into the present team structure.
There has to be a reason the club has not gone down that route in 6 seasons although 1 lost to an ACL.

What would his full team role be.
Does he take up McCluggage and Bailey time in the midfield or Ashcrofts time when he returns.
Would Neale and Dunkleys time in the middle have to be reduced to accommodate Rayners increased time.
Would he be any better than any of the above-mentioned players that we know can do that TOG in the midfield.
Rayner may be very explosive around the center square and stoppages.
But will he fall off in other arears because of his lack of continual running while doing this extra midfield time.
Could he get from stoppage to stoppage and still have that burst we see when he goes into the center square.

 

[mpal6]

I hope this is the year, but as fit as Cam is looking, perhaps he just does not have the endurance to be a fulltime mid. Recent stats indicate he is very effective when in the midfield, but seems to me is a power athlete. So perhaps a similar role to last year with stints in the middle. I prefer Cam as our third tall, and when required some time in the middle

I mentioned sometime back, that perhaps Lester or Gardiner might train and play forward in some of the match sims for this year. Seems coaches still not settled on the permanent third tall. That said, Cam trained in the backs last year IIRC, so as 'mighty lions' alluded Gardiner wont play forward... However, I cannot see when Doedee is fit, Payne is 100% fit, where Gardiner (even Lester) fits into the back 7.

He looks lot more lean, I am praying he's been building that endurance side this offseason. Even if Cam moves from 3/10 contests to say 5 or 6/10, it'll be a huge impact on our midfield.

He's like our Stringer or DeGoey, but we need Neale and Dunkley to consciously let him have a clean run on footy when he's there in the middle with them as well as Big O to tap it in his direction and so on. This is an adjustment for our first choice midfield but if they let Cam loose to win the footy, he's going to burst through with it more often than not.

 

[mpal6]

Our midfield is doing fine in my opinion.
I believe we are still 1 good winger short but reasonably okay in that area now.
A lot will depend on who takes Ashcrofts spot from round 1.
I just think McCluggage gets more time in the middle and the remainder time taken up by the usual guys.

If Rayner gets a lot of time in the midfield in the upcoming match sims, intra club and preseason games i may be convinced.
Showing he can cope in trial games with a lot of midfield time would help his cause. If that is the coaches' intentions.
Dev's spot up for grabs round 0, so a small surprise may be on the cards.

The other issue is will we revert back to 3 tall forwards or use Rayner as that 3rd tall.

I think the majority on BF would prefer we stay with Rayner as the 3rd tall. That's going on posts leading up to the GF.
I on the other hand think they may try and find that 3rd tall from one of our new guys.
It will be up to them to show they can handle the role.
However, the coaches would have to make up their mind (3rd tall or not) going into the 2 official preseason games.
You don't want to go into round zero without your intended setup getting a run together.
Something to look forward to in the preseason and see what the coaches settle on come round 0.

Lions were the top clearance side of 2023. In total (CL), center (CCL) and stoppage (SCL) clearances.

View attachment 1893525

Yep, I'm hoping for Luke Lloyd or Brandon Ryan to grab this spot. Luke appears to be an accurate set shot for goal and a natural forward. He lacks the mature body so will get rotated with Ryan but I'm hoping one of these two will settle the third tall spot by second half of this season.

 

[Mighty Lions]

I understand that stats are just that.
They tell a story that can have different interpretations.
We did lose the GF but beat every team in the competition bar the Hawks last year.

I have not heard how Rayner has proven he can do this type of role and fit into the present team structure.
There has to be a reason the club has not gone down that route in 6 seasons although 1 lost to an ACL.

What would his full team role be.
Does he take up McCluggage and Bailey time in the midfield or Ashcrofts time when he returns.
Would Neale and Dunkleys time in the middle have to be reduced to accommodate Rayners increased time.
Would he be any better than any of the above-mentioned players that we know can do that TOG in the midfield.
Rayner may be very explosive around the center square and stoppages.
But will he fall off in other arears because of his lack of continual running while doing this extra midfield time.
Could he get from stoppage to stoppage and still have that burst we see when he goes into the center square.

Rayner will play midfield time 100%...take it to the bank. How much time will depend on his body and endurance levels.

In saying that, there will be some trials & surprises had in the pre-season games 100% & (as usual) there will be some melts from the negative nellies that love to complain but also some happy supporters who will be over the top excited. Watch this space.

 

[martinson]

I don't care where Cam plays as long as he's able to play good consistent footy.

It would seem logical that he spend some midfield time because of his talent and physical makeup . De Goey got us with that final burst out of the centre that wins games.

I wish people would stop talking Cam up though until he does it often enough that we could call it reliable. He's had the yoke of expectation around his neck ever since he arrived and it's like groundhog day at the start of every season.

Fingers crossed he stays injury free this year and his fitness is at a level where he can fully utilise his talents.

 

[Nunez]

Rayner will play midfield time 100%...take it to the bank. How much time will depend on his body and endurance levels.

In saying that, there will be some trials & surprises had in the pre-season games 100% & (as usual) there will be some melts from the negative nellies that love to complain but also some happy supporters who will be over the top excited. Watch this space.

So full time midfield then? Tank Rayner is ready baby!!

 

[Section 5]

Rayner will play midfield time 100%...take it to the bank. How much time will depend on his body and endurance levels.

In saying that, there will be some trials & surprises had in the pre-season games 100% & (as usual) there will be some melts from the negative nellies that love to complain but also some happy supporters who will be over the top excited. Watch this space.

Agree. i think i pretty much said that in previous posts.
Time will tell if it is any more than usual though.

I don't think most on here will melt if the moves work or appear to work.
I am looking forward to seeing or hear what changes they make in the upcoming preseason match sims and intraclub games.

Wilmot looks like a readymade wing/midfielder to me and i would like to see that trialed. That's just my opinion though.
He has played 29 good games the majority at half back with a few on the wing. He reminds me so much of Eliot Yeo.
I also think half back is a position we have well covered with fringe players well equipped to play that position.

 

[martinson]

Agree. i think i pretty much said that in previous posts.
Time will tell if it is any more than usual though.

I don't think most on here will melt if the moves work or appear to work.
I am looking forward to seeing or hear what changes they make in the upcoming preseason match sims and intraclub games.

Wilmot looks like a readymade wing/midfielder to me and i would like to see that trialed. That's just my opinion though.
He has played 29 good games the majority at half back with a few on the wing. He reminds me so much of Eliot Yeo.
I also think half back is a position we have well covered with fringe players well equipped to play that position.

Wilmot looks a weapon wherever he's played , can pull out the unpredictable. I expect he'll still be in the back half at the start of the year but if all the backs we have are up and running in the season proper he's the logical one that could bolster other areas. I'm not convinced McKenna is purely a backman either but I'd say it's where he's destined to stay.