USA 2024 Presidential Election. Harris Concedes. God Help America

[Ghost Patrol]

seems to be a lot of new accounts popping up to gloat

We tracked his IP address

 

[bourbons]

I kind of disagree. I don't think the average Trump voter was aware of the false electors he assembled for 2020, for example, and falsely believe that it was not a genuine coup attempt.

When you have so much misinformation. So easily available, it takes time and effort to understand whats going on. People from both sides rely on commentary, and there has never been less integrity.

I dont think there's a way out from this.

More faith than me.

You're right in that the average Trump supporter wouldn't be across the details of what he actually tried to do in 2020, but even if they were they wouldn't care.

 

[Zidane98]

there will be a lot of soul-searching to be done by the dems. with an economy that is in much better order than when trump was last in the white house, how could they be so comprehensively beaten? the timing of biden’s resignation is another? what is happening to america’s moral conscience that a lying, convicted felon and rapist with major cognitive issues can win not only the election but the popular vote? and, sadly, whether a white male would have made a difference and by how much? are a few.

Trump's appeal is to the far right nationalists who turned out in droves for the election through a fear & hate campaign. They turn out in high numbers, egging each other on.

US electoral system has much to answer for. Voting should be compulsory for every single citizen aged 18 and above for starters. I don't see too many of the neutral voters who have to vote voting in favor of someone like Trump.


You also have the farcical situation in some states where a Dem governor is voted in yet in the same state Trump gets more presidential votes.


For all the flaws our electoral role system is superior in every way to the shambles that the US system is. Everyone has to vote and can do it anonymously. For those really set on not having their say always have the option of a donkey vote (even though it technically is an offense).

 

[Bloods86]

More faith than me.

You're right in that the average Trump supporter wouldn't be across the details of what he actually tried to do in 2020, but even if they were they wouldn't care.

I think some would, at least anecdotally I have several conservative family members who would vote Republican in the US, but think Trump is a lunatic, authoritarian, criminal etc.

You'd also maybe have some who didn't vote at all who might care.

Would it be enough, possibly not, given there were plenty of reasons not to vote for Trump and they did anyway.

Lots of economic and historical illiteracy too.

 

[Saint Shags]

The biggest takeaway isn't that Trump smashed it. Looking at the numbers at present he will be roughly where he was in votes in 2020.
Its the fact that the Dems lost so much. They need to take the risk and be the progressive party. But that will be difficult to do.

 

[Bloods86]

The biggest takeaway isn't that Trump smashed it. Looking at the numbers at present he will be roughly where he was in votes in 2020.
Its the fact that the Dems lost so much. They need to take the risk and be the progressive party. But that will be difficult to do.

They do need to change direction. While Republicans offer no good answers either and are worse for the working class, they make more noise about the problems and causing change (though it will be mostly pro-corporate measures like last time).

Bernie Sanders has gone whack:

“It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people would find that the working class has abandoned them"

And yet still, progressives and leftists who failed to vote for Harris or the Dem Senators and Reps, should not escape responsibility. If purity gets in the way of pragmatism, and you end up with a worse result, great job guys.

 

[10571z]

The biggest takeaway isn't that Trump smashed it. Looking at the numbers at present he will be roughly where he was in votes in 2020.
Its the fact that the Dems lost so much. They need to take the risk and be the progressive party. But that will be difficult to do.

I’d say if anything they need to go less progressive.

 

[Bloods86]

I’d say if anything they need to go less progressive.

Lol. Every election they bend over backwards to appeal to the centre, to disaffected Republicans. The Dems are a centre/centre-right party largely beholden to corporate and special interests, and you think they need to go further right. They have a minority of actual lefties in the party.

Maybe conservative media could stop lying their arses off about fringe issues that don't really impact anyone, to distract from their lack of policy to benefit most Americans.

And since conservatives won't change their attack messaging, Dems may as well live up to it a bit in terms of economic, healthcare and IR policy, and appeal to those further left. Doubt they do though.

 

[Saint Shags]

I’d say if anything they need to go less progressive.

If you think the Dems are progressive, I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[Saint]

I’d say if anything they need to go less progressive.

They lost 10+ million votes by being less progressive.

They offered precisely zero economically for the lower and middle class. Were they proposing tax cuts, or social security increases, or increased medical care (greatest cause of bankruptcy in the US)?

Note.

They do have two policies on their website about lower taxes. The first is about child tax credits, which most people won't read or understand.

The second one is a pledge not to raise taxes on the middle class with the stated limit of $400,000. How out of touch do you need to be to say that those earning under $400k count as the middle class (It's 97th percentile!)?

Everything reads as tinkering rather than big sell-able policies. There's little commitment to anything. Very much BAU, in an environment when people are falling further and further behind. Exactly the same as the Australian ALP currently.

 

[Blue1980]

Lol. Every election they bend over backwards to appeal to the centre, to disaffected Republicans. The Dems are a centre/centre-right party largely beholden to corporate and special interests, and you think they need to go further right. They have a minority of actual lefties in the party.

Maybe conservative media could stop lying their arses off about fringe issues that don't really impact anyone, to distract from their lack of policy to benefit most Americans.

And since conservatives won't change their attack messaging, Dems may as well live up to it a bit in terms of economic, healthcare and IR policy, and appeal to those further left. Doubt they do though.

It’s the people who on the right and who support Trump who equate progressive with woke.

That’s now what we mean, we mean actually running on popular economic policies which will benefit average Americans, which includes a lot of things we take for granted.

 

[Bloods86]

It’s the people who on the right and who support Trump who equate progressive with woke.

That’s now what we mean, we mean actually running on popular economic policies which will benefit average Americans, which includes a lot of things we take for granted.

Yep, and when they then label corporate media as leftist, it shows a fair amount of ignorance.

Sure, they may pay lip service to and generally support different minority groups and progressive social issues to appeal to a wider audience, but the CNNs of the world want the pro-corporate economic status quo to remain, like Fox does, like Republicans do, like most Democrats do.

 

[Janus]

“It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people would find that the working class has abandoned them"

The Democrat Party abandoned working class people in 1974 when a Democrat House and Senate passed the Trade Act which transferred the power to raise and lower tariffs to the Executive branch and changed the US Tariff Commission to the US International Trade Commission.

In 1977, when a group of cotton glove makers went to said commission to ask for protection from Chinese imports that had increased by 600% year on year, the liberals on it said 'Nah, that's okay'. Even though the two people on the commission literally said 'You can't treat a socialist country in the same way you would a free market'.

Then when the next year, imports of Chinese garments went up 1000% across the board, Jimmy Carter didn't put a tariff on those imports but instead put a cap on them at a high level because he wanted to negotiate a trade deal with China which resulted in all the manufacturing being shifted from the United States to China that was signed at the end of 1979.

The following happened after that:



The rise of China was bought and paid for by the suppression of US wages through cheap products flooding the US market from 1970 to 1999, and then the Chinese Party artificially suppressing their currency to make their labor cheaper from 2000 to now.

God help America? God helps those who help themselves, and the United States just did.

 

[Spearman]

The economy is worse for middle and lower classes. US house prices are up 50% sine 2019 and median wages are down.

Trump will make it worse, but at least he was identifying the problem. Dems were telling them everything was rosy while everything in their lives was getting worse.

Dems won the top 30% of voters (by income) and lost all the demographics below that.

The media were doing their thing of blaming all problems on immigrants and that's an easy sell. Much easier than that the big corporations are taking all the profits offshore and paying minimal taxes while the middle and lower classes are getting less and less.

Some panel shows are pointing at people just thinking about their kids, and schools, and trans etc. So the culture wars paid off. Trump had a spot on TV about 30,000 times or something that had Harris explaining the trans in prison thing. Apparently that stuck with people. But also they were clueless that it was an existing program from the Trump admin.
So back again to lack of knowledge and disinformation.

 

[Spearman]

The Democrat Party abandoned working class people in 1974 when a Democrat House and Senate passed the Trade Act which transferred the power to raise and lower tariffs to the Executive branch and changed the US Tariff Commission to the US International Trade Commission.

In 1977, when a group of cotton glove makers went to said commission to ask for protection from Chinese imports that had increased by 600% year on year, the liberals on it said 'Nah, that's okay'. Even though the two people on the commission literally said 'You can't treat a socialist country in the same way you would a free market'.

Then when the next year, imports of Chinese garments went up 1000% across the board, Jimmy Carter didn't put a tariff on those imports but instead put a cap on them at a high level because he wanted to negotiate a trade deal with China which resulted in all the manufacturing being shifted from the United States to China that was signed at the end of 1979.

The following happened after that:

View attachment 2160049

The rise of China was bought and paid for by the suppression of US wages through cheap products flooding the US market from 1970 to 1999, and then the Chinese Party artificially suppressing their currency to make their labor cheaper from 2000 to now.

God help America? God helps those who help themselves, and the United States just did.

The 70s China policy from Nixon to Carter was seducing them with economic success of exports and hoping it would lead to more openness and less communist policies. Kissinger effed up his read of Zhou and Mao and it went downhill from there.