USA 2024 Presidential Election. Harris Concedes. God Help America

[Ghost Patrol]

seems to be a lot of new accounts popping up to gloat

We tracked his IP address

 

[bourbons]

I kind of disagree. I don't think the average Trump voter was aware of the false electors he assembled for 2020, for example, and falsely believe that it was not a genuine coup attempt.

When you have so much misinformation. So easily available, it takes time and effort to understand whats going on. People from both sides rely on commentary, and there has never been less integrity.

I dont think there's a way out from this.

More faith than me.

You're right in that the average Trump supporter wouldn't be across the details of what he actually tried to do in 2020, but even if they were they wouldn't care.

 

[Zidane98]

there will be a lot of soul-searching to be done by the dems. with an economy that is in much better order than when trump was last in the white house, how could they be so comprehensively beaten? the timing of biden’s resignation is another? what is happening to america’s moral conscience that a lying, convicted felon and rapist with major cognitive issues can win not only the election but the popular vote? and, sadly, whether a white male would have made a difference and by how much? are a few.

Trump's appeal is to the far right nationalists who turned out in droves for the election through a fear & hate campaign. They turn out in high numbers, egging each other on.

US electoral system has much to answer for. Voting should be compulsory for every single citizen aged 18 and above for starters. I don't see too many of the neutral voters who have to vote voting in favor of someone like Trump.


You also have the farcical situation in some states where a Dem governor is voted in yet in the same state Trump gets more presidential votes.


For all the flaws our electoral role system is superior in every way to the shambles that the US system is. Everyone has to vote and can do it anonymously. For those really set on not having their say always have the option of a donkey vote (even though it technically is an offense).

 

[Bloods86]

More faith than me.

You're right in that the average Trump supporter wouldn't be across the details of what he actually tried to do in 2020, but even if they were they wouldn't care.

I think some would, at least anecdotally I have several conservative family members who would vote Republican in the US, but think Trump is a lunatic, authoritarian, criminal etc.

You'd also maybe have some who didn't vote at all who might care.

Would it be enough, possibly not, given there were plenty of reasons not to vote for Trump and they did anyway.

Lots of economic and historical illiteracy too.

 

[Saint Shags]

The biggest takeaway isn't that Trump smashed it. Looking at the numbers at present he will be roughly where he was in votes in 2020.
Its the fact that the Dems lost so much. They need to take the risk and be the progressive party. But that will be difficult to do.

 

[Bloods86]

The biggest takeaway isn't that Trump smashed it. Looking at the numbers at present he will be roughly where he was in votes in 2020.
Its the fact that the Dems lost so much. They need to take the risk and be the progressive party. But that will be difficult to do.

They do need to change direction. While Republicans offer no good answers either and are worse for the working class, they make more noise about the problems and causing change (though it will be mostly pro-corporate measures like last time).

Bernie Sanders has gone whack:

“It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people would find that the working class has abandoned them"

And yet still, progressives and leftists who failed to vote for Harris or the Dem Senators and Reps, should not escape responsibility. If purity gets in the way of pragmatism, and you end up with a worse result, great job guys.

 

[10571z]

The biggest takeaway isn't that Trump smashed it. Looking at the numbers at present he will be roughly where he was in votes in 2020.
Its the fact that the Dems lost so much. They need to take the risk and be the progressive party. But that will be difficult to do.

I’d say if anything they need to go less progressive.

 

[Bloods86]

I’d say if anything they need to go less progressive.

Lol. Every election they bend over backwards to appeal to the centre, to disaffected Republicans. The Dems are a centre/centre-right party largely beholden to corporate and special interests, and you think they need to go further right. They have a minority of actual lefties in the party.

Maybe conservative media could stop lying their arses off about fringe issues that don't really impact anyone, to distract from their lack of policy to benefit most Americans.

And since conservatives won't change their attack messaging, Dems may as well live up to it a bit in terms of economic, healthcare and IR policy, and appeal to those further left. Doubt they do though.

 

[Saint Shags]

I’d say if anything they need to go less progressive.

If you think the Dems are progressive, I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[Saint]

I’d say if anything they need to go less progressive.

They lost 10+ million votes by being less progressive.

They offered precisely zero economically for the lower and middle class. Were they proposing tax cuts, or social security increases, or increased medical care (greatest cause of bankruptcy in the US)?

Note.

They do have two policies on their website about lower taxes. The first is about child tax credits, which most people won't read or understand.

The second one is a pledge not to raise taxes on the middle class with the stated limit of $400,000. How out of touch do you need to be to say that those earning under $400k count as the middle class (It's 97th percentile!)?

Everything reads as tinkering rather than big sell-able policies. There's little commitment to anything. Very much BAU, in an environment when people are falling further and further behind. Exactly the same as the Australian ALP currently.

 

[Blue1980]

Lol. Every election they bend over backwards to appeal to the centre, to disaffected Republicans. The Dems are a centre/centre-right party largely beholden to corporate and special interests, and you think they need to go further right. They have a minority of actual lefties in the party.

Maybe conservative media could stop lying their arses off about fringe issues that don't really impact anyone, to distract from their lack of policy to benefit most Americans.

And since conservatives won't change their attack messaging, Dems may as well live up to it a bit in terms of economic, healthcare and IR policy, and appeal to those further left. Doubt they do though.

It’s the people who on the right and who support Trump who equate progressive with woke.

That’s now what we mean, we mean actually running on popular economic policies which will benefit average Americans, which includes a lot of things we take for granted.

 

[Bloods86]

It’s the people who on the right and who support Trump who equate progressive with woke.

That’s now what we mean, we mean actually running on popular economic policies which will benefit average Americans, which includes a lot of things we take for granted.

Yep, and when they then label corporate media as leftist, it shows a fair amount of ignorance.

Sure, they may pay lip service to and generally support different minority groups and progressive social issues to appeal to a wider audience, but the CNNs of the world want the pro-corporate economic status quo to remain, like Fox does, like Republicans do, like most Democrats do.

 

[Janus]

“It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people would find that the working class has abandoned them"

The Democrat Party abandoned working class people in 1974 when a Democrat House and Senate passed the Trade Act which transferred the power to raise and lower tariffs to the Executive branch and changed the US Tariff Commission to the US International Trade Commission.

In 1977, when a group of cotton glove makers went to said commission to ask for protection from Chinese imports that had increased by 600% year on year, the liberals on it said 'Nah, that's okay'. Even though the two people on the commission literally said 'You can't treat a socialist country in the same way you would a free market'.

Then when the next year, imports of Chinese garments went up 1000% across the board, Jimmy Carter didn't put a tariff on those imports but instead put a cap on them at a high level because he wanted to negotiate a trade deal with China which resulted in all the manufacturing being shifted from the United States to China that was signed at the end of 1979.

The following happened after that:



The rise of China was bought and paid for by the suppression of US wages through cheap products flooding the US market from 1970 to 1999, and then the Chinese Party artificially suppressing their currency to make their labor cheaper from 2000 to now.

God help America? God helps those who help themselves, and the United States just did.

 

[Spearman]

The economy is worse for middle and lower classes. US house prices are up 50% sine 2019 and median wages are down.

Trump will make it worse, but at least he was identifying the problem. Dems were telling them everything was rosy while everything in their lives was getting worse.

Dems won the top 30% of voters (by income) and lost all the demographics below that.

The media were doing their thing of blaming all problems on immigrants and that's an easy sell. Much easier than that the big corporations are taking all the profits offshore and paying minimal taxes while the middle and lower classes are getting less and less.

Some panel shows are pointing at people just thinking about their kids, and schools, and trans etc. So the culture wars paid off. Trump had a spot on TV about 30,000 times or something that had Harris explaining the trans in prison thing. Apparently that stuck with people. But also they were clueless that it was an existing program from the Trump admin.
So back again to lack of knowledge and disinformation.

 

[Spearman]

The Democrat Party abandoned working class people in 1974 when a Democrat House and Senate passed the Trade Act which transferred the power to raise and lower tariffs to the Executive branch and changed the US Tariff Commission to the US International Trade Commission.

In 1977, when a group of cotton glove makers went to said commission to ask for protection from Chinese imports that had increased by 600% year on year, the liberals on it said 'Nah, that's okay'. Even though the two people on the commission literally said 'You can't treat a socialist country in the same way you would a free market'.

Then when the next year, imports of Chinese garments went up 1000% across the board, Jimmy Carter didn't put a tariff on those imports but instead put a cap on them at a high level because he wanted to negotiate a trade deal with China which resulted in all the manufacturing being shifted from the United States to China that was signed at the end of 1979.

The following happened after that:

View attachment 2160049

The rise of China was bought and paid for by the suppression of US wages through cheap products flooding the US market from 1970 to 1999, and then the Chinese Party artificially suppressing their currency to make their labor cheaper from 2000 to now.

God help America? God helps those who help themselves, and the United States just did.

The 70s China policy from Nixon to Carter was seducing them with economic success of exports and hoping it would lead to more openness and less communist policies. Kissinger effed up his read of Zhou and Mao and it went downhill from there.

 

[Not Important]

As horrible as it is, maybe people just liked what Trump was selling?

i get why the uber-rich go in hard for the snake oil salesman cos they open their pockets, and he pours meg-millions in, and their god is mammon - that’s all that matters. but how the great unwashed can park the fact he’s not only not on their side but loathes them - called them basement dwellers - has no redeeming features, disrespects women, made the u.s - the country they purport to love - a laughing stock worldwide when he was last the occupant of the oval office is beyond my understanding. he even won the popular vote and majority in both houses, geezus!!

 

[Spearman]

I think some would, at least anecdotally I have several conservative family members who would vote Republican in the US, but think Trump is a lunatic, authoritarian, criminal etc.

You'd also maybe have some who didn't vote at all who might care.

Would it be enough, possibly not, given there were plenty of reasons not to vote for Trump and they did anyway.

Lots of economic and historical illiteracy too.

This. They had the chance to put in a GOP Congress, which could stymie most Harris WH proposals, and get rid of the s**tstain embarrassment. They flocked to him instead, and will have to cop it. They forgot he has still not been tried for the classified docs., the evidence needs to be outed before he kills the case. The election interference crime will disappear. I wonder how the right will spin those anti-law and order moves?
And I strongly hope that the media focus on the appointments and actual changes to policies and laws of the admin, not just the stupid shit he will be spewing. Focus on the consequences.

 

[Not Important]

good synopsis is this.

"Seniors voted to gut Social Security.

Men voted for their wives and daughters to die from miscarriages.

Immigrants voted for deportation raids.

Poor people voted for tax cuts for billionaires.

Women voted to have fewer rights than men.

Police voted for a convicted felon.”

the last line speaks volumes."



and this

 

[Bloods86]

The Democrat Party abandoned working class people in 1974 when a Democrat House and Senate passed the Trade Act which transferred the power to raise and lower tariffs to the Executive branch and changed the US Tariff Commission to the US International Trade Commission.

In 1977, when a group of cotton glove makers went to said commission to ask for protection from Chinese imports that had increased by 600% year on year, the liberals on it said 'Nah, that's okay'. Even though the two people on the commission literally said 'You can't treat a socialist country in the same way you would a free market'.

Then when the next year, imports of Chinese garments went up 1000% across the board, Jimmy Carter didn't put a tariff on those imports but instead put a cap on them at a high level because he wanted to negotiate a trade deal with China which resulted in all the manufacturing being shifted from the United States to China that was signed at the end of 1979.

The following happened after that:

View attachment 2160049

The rise of China was bought and paid for by the suppression of US wages through cheap products flooding the US market from 1970 to 1999, and then the Chinese Party artificially suppressing their currency to make their labor cheaper from 2000 to now.

God help America? God helps those who help themselves, and the United States just did.

This was bipartisan, signed into law by a Republican President.

There is nothing to suggest that Trump will serve the interests of the working class better than previous administrations. And certainly evidence that he will be worse. He doesn't even know what a tariff is, certainly don't trust him or his team to apply them selectively where needed.

If his goal is to boost manufacturing, this is already occurring under Biden/Harris.

 

[Not Important]

Trump's appeal is to the far right nationalists who turned out in droves for the election through a fear & hate campaign. They turn out in high numbers, egging each other on.

US electoral system has much to answer for. Voting should be compulsory for every single citizen aged 18 and above for starters. I don't see too many of the neutral voters who have to vote voting in favor of someone like Trump.


You also have the farcical situation in some states where a Dem governor is voted in yet in the same state Trump gets more presidential votes.


For all the flaws our electoral role system is superior in every way to the shambles that the US system is. Everyone has to vote and can do it anonymously. For those really set on not having their say always have the option of a donkey vote (even though it technically is an offense).

it’s a gerrymander. has been for yonks. popular vote for president, and compulsory voting would be my preference.

i have this gnawing feeling the size of the swing has a lot to do with colour and gender.

 

[Saint]

Some panel shows are pointing at people just thinking about their kids, and schools, and trans etc. So the culture wars paid off. Trump had a spot on TV about 30,000 times or something that had Harris explaining the trans in prison thing. Apparently that stuck with people. But also they were clueless that it was an existing program from the Trump admin.
So back again to lack of knowledge and disinformation.

Just like bad policy, you have to counter with good. Unfortunately, if the other team is lying, you have to correct those lies. You can't just assume the people are smart enough to see through it if it is a lie. If the lie is working, it needs to be countered.

 

[Spearman]

Just like bad policy, you have to counter with good. Unfortunately, if the other team is lying, you have to correct those lies. You can't just assume the people are smart enough to see through it if it is a lie. If the lie is working, it needs to be countered.

We all know the rap sheet of Fox, trial testimony and video evidence. How about Sinclair?
from last summer...

TV giant known for rightwing disinformation doubles down on its national news agenda​

The company, which gained notoriety in 2018 for requiring local anchors across the country to read the same segment, has since created a national news show that produces stories distributed to its stations – often at the expense of local news coverage, the experts say.

As local journalism continues to decline, that formula could have an especially big impact on the upcoming presidential election when swing voters may then base their decision on fears over exaggerated problems.

“When you stress a story the way Sinclair does, say on immigration, and you don’t look at the numbers and you don’t reflect on what has been going on, that is different than a news story. That is a political talking point,” said Anne Nelson, journalist and author of Shadow Network: Media, Money, and the Secret Hub of the Radical Right.

When the most viewed cable channel and the biggest owner of local TV stations are doing this shit, then the people who aren't particularly critically analytical of their news consumption are immersed in this sewage day in and day out.
Add a big dollop more on top if they use SM, and their algorithm will ensure even more.
I think the immigration thing is a big factor this time. First, it's been a hammering point from the right-wing for a while now. I am reminded when these movements started springing up in Europe (La Pen?). Parochial Americans in the internet age were ripe for this sort of xenophobia outrage. One my last few trips back I noticed a lot more, mostly south Asians, but they were all either working and contributing, or shopping and also contributing. Joe Dirt types probably react to the skin colors and equate it with the anti-brown immigrant culture war.
And speaking of which, those wars also had a huge effect yesterday. Drown the citizenry with crap they have no actual experience with and it sits in the subconscious.