Ghost Patrol
Incognito Moderatore
- Sep 17, 2019
- 25,077
- 38,943
- AFL Club
- Richmond
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- #7,001
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
More faith than me.I kind of disagree. I don't think the average Trump voter was aware of the false electors he assembled for 2020, for example, and falsely believe that it was not a genuine coup attempt.
When you have so much misinformation. So easily available, it takes time and effort to understand whats going on. People from both sides rely on commentary, and there has never been less integrity.
I dont think there's a way out from this.
there will be a lot of soul-searching to be done by the dems. with an economy that is in much better order than when trump was last in the white house, how could they be so comprehensively beaten? the timing of biden’s resignation is another? what is happening to america’s moral conscience that a lying, convicted felon and rapist with major cognitive issues can win not only the election but the popular vote? and, sadly, whether a white male would have made a difference and by how much? are a few.
I think some would, at least anecdotally I have several conservative family members who would vote Republican in the US, but think Trump is a lunatic, authoritarian, criminal etc.More faith than me.
You're right in that the average Trump supporter wouldn't be across the details of what he actually tried to do in 2020, but even if they were they wouldn't care.
They do need to change direction. While Republicans offer no good answers either and are worse for the working class, they make more noise about the problems and causing change (though it will be mostly pro-corporate measures like last time).The biggest takeaway isn't that Trump smashed it. Looking at the numbers at present he will be roughly where he was in votes in 2020.
Its the fact that the Dems lost so much. They need to take the risk and be the progressive party. But that will be difficult to do.
I’d say if anything they need to go less progressive.The biggest takeaway isn't that Trump smashed it. Looking at the numbers at present he will be roughly where he was in votes in 2020.
Its the fact that the Dems lost so much. They need to take the risk and be the progressive party. But that will be difficult to do.
Lol. Every election they bend over backwards to appeal to the centre, to disaffected Republicans. The Dems are a centre/centre-right party largely beholden to corporate and special interests, and you think they need to go further right. They have a minority of actual lefties in the party.I’d say if anything they need to go less progressive.
I’d say if anything they need to go less progressive.
They lost 10+ million votes by being less progressive.I’d say if anything they need to go less progressive.
Lol. Every election they bend over backwards to appeal to the centre, to disaffected Republicans. The Dems are a centre/centre-right party largely beholden to corporate and special interests, and you think they need to go further right. They have a minority of actual lefties in the party.
Maybe conservative media could stop lying their arses off about fringe issues that don't really impact anyone, to distract from their lack of policy to benefit most Americans.
And since conservatives won't change their attack messaging, Dems may as well live up to it a bit in terms of economic, healthcare and IR policy, and appeal to those further left. Doubt they do though.
Yep, and when they then label corporate media as leftist, it shows a fair amount of ignorance.It’s the people who on the right and who support Trump who equate progressive with woke.
That’s now what we mean, we mean actually running on popular economic policies which will benefit average Americans, which includes a lot of things we take for granted.
The Democrat Party abandoned working class people in 1974 when a Democrat House and Senate passed the Trade Act which transferred the power to raise and lower tariffs to the Executive branch and changed the US Tariff Commission to the US International Trade Commission.“It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people would find that the working class has abandoned them"
Some panel shows are pointing at people just thinking about their kids, and schools, and trans etc. So the culture wars paid off. Trump had a spot on TV about 30,000 times or something that had Harris explaining the trans in prison thing. Apparently that stuck with people. But also they were clueless that it was an existing program from the Trump admin.The economy is worse for middle and lower classes. US house prices are up 50% sine 2019 and median wages are down.
Trump will make it worse, but at least he was identifying the problem. Dems were telling them everything was rosy while everything in their lives was getting worse.
Dems won the top 30% of voters (by income) and lost all the demographics below that.
The media were doing their thing of blaming all problems on immigrants and that's an easy sell. Much easier than that the big corporations are taking all the profits offshore and paying minimal taxes while the middle and lower classes are getting less and less.
The 70s China policy from Nixon to Carter was seducing them with economic success of exports and hoping it would lead to more openness and less communist policies. Kissinger effed up his read of Zhou and Mao and it went downhill from there.The Democrat Party abandoned working class people in 1974 when a Democrat House and Senate passed the Trade Act which transferred the power to raise and lower tariffs to the Executive branch and changed the US Tariff Commission to the US International Trade Commission.
In 1977, when a group of cotton glove makers went to said commission to ask for protection from Chinese imports that had increased by 600% year on year, the liberals on it said 'Nah, that's okay'. Even though the two people on the commission literally said 'You can't treat a socialist country in the same way you would a free market'.
Then when the next year, imports of Chinese garments went up 1000% across the board, Jimmy Carter didn't put a tariff on those imports but instead put a cap on them at a high level because he wanted to negotiate a trade deal with China which resulted in all the manufacturing being shifted from the United States to China that was signed at the end of 1979.
The following happened after that:
View attachment 2160049
The rise of China was bought and paid for by the suppression of US wages through cheap products flooding the US market from 1970 to 1999, and then the Chinese Party artificially suppressing their currency to make their labor cheaper from 2000 to now.
God help America? God helps those who help themselves, and the United States just did.
As horrible as it is, maybe people just liked what Trump was selling?
This. They had the chance to put in a GOP Congress, which could stymie most Harris WH proposals, and get rid of the s**tstain embarrassment. They flocked to him instead, and will have to cop it. They forgot he has still not been tried for the classified docs., the evidence needs to be outed before he kills the case. The election interference crime will disappear. I wonder how the right will spin those anti-law and order moves?I think some would, at least anecdotally I have several conservative family members who would vote Republican in the US, but think Trump is a lunatic, authoritarian, criminal etc.
You'd also maybe have some who didn't vote at all who might care.
Would it be enough, possibly not, given there were plenty of reasons not to vote for Trump and they did anyway.
Lots of economic and historical illiteracy too.
This was bipartisan, signed into law by a Republican President.The Democrat Party abandoned working class people in 1974 when a Democrat House and Senate passed the Trade Act which transferred the power to raise and lower tariffs to the Executive branch and changed the US Tariff Commission to the US International Trade Commission.
In 1977, when a group of cotton glove makers went to said commission to ask for protection from Chinese imports that had increased by 600% year on year, the liberals on it said 'Nah, that's okay'. Even though the two people on the commission literally said 'You can't treat a socialist country in the same way you would a free market'.
Then when the next year, imports of Chinese garments went up 1000% across the board, Jimmy Carter didn't put a tariff on those imports but instead put a cap on them at a high level because he wanted to negotiate a trade deal with China which resulted in all the manufacturing being shifted from the United States to China that was signed at the end of 1979.
The following happened after that:
View attachment 2160049
The rise of China was bought and paid for by the suppression of US wages through cheap products flooding the US market from 1970 to 1999, and then the Chinese Party artificially suppressing their currency to make their labor cheaper from 2000 to now.
God help America? God helps those who help themselves, and the United States just did.
Trump's appeal is to the far right nationalists who turned out in droves for the election through a fear & hate campaign. They turn out in high numbers, egging each other on.
US electoral system has much to answer for. Voting should be compulsory for every single citizen aged 18 and above for starters. I don't see too many of the neutral voters who have to vote voting in favor of someone like Trump.
You also have the farcical situation in some states where a Dem governor is voted in yet in the same state Trump gets more presidential votes.
For all the flaws our electoral role system is superior in every way to the shambles that the US system is. Everyone has to vote and can do it anonymously. For those really set on not having their say always have the option of a donkey vote (even though it technically is an offense).
Just like bad policy, you have to counter with good. Unfortunately, if the other team is lying, you have to correct those lies. You can't just assume the people are smart enough to see through it if it is a lie. If the lie is working, it needs to be countered.Some panel shows are pointing at people just thinking about their kids, and schools, and trans etc. So the culture wars paid off. Trump had a spot on TV about 30,000 times or something that had Harris explaining the trans in prison thing. Apparently that stuck with people. But also they were clueless that it was an existing program from the Trump admin.
So back again to lack of knowledge and disinformation.
We all know the rap sheet of Fox, trial testimony and video evidence. How about Sinclair?Just like bad policy, you have to counter with good. Unfortunately, if the other team is lying, you have to correct those lies. You can't just assume the people are smart enough to see through it if it is a lie. If the lie is working, it needs to be countered.
The company, which gained notoriety in 2018 for requiring local anchors across the country to read the same segment, has since created a national news show that produces stories distributed to its stations – often at the expense of local news coverage, the experts say.
As local journalism continues to decline, that formula could have an especially big impact on the upcoming presidential election when swing voters may then base their decision on fears over exaggerated problems.
“When you stress a story the way Sinclair does, say on immigration, and you don’t look at the numbers and you don’t reflect on what has been going on, that is different than a news story. That is a political talking point,” said Anne Nelson, journalist and author of Shadow Network: Media, Money, and the Secret Hub of the Radical Right.