Autopsy 2024 Rd 17 Blues take a giant step backwards

[Arr0w]

Um ... because losses expose problems and make people debate said problems?

Wins also expose problems, both also create situations for improvement

Do you think the players and coaches are not discussing what went wrong, and how to fix it?

Like every game or result, they'll assess, what worked and what didn't

There's some doom sayers, some going meh, who cares, some discussing flaws and how to fix them. Each person is coming from a different base, depending on current life circumstances, expectations and mood. This is an outlet for them.

People can use this footy forum to discuss any number of theories, they may only want to post after a win or a lose, it's their prerogative, but others can also debate a counter position or opinion

You know this though Arr0w. It's not a hive mind. Let people cope however they need to, and add your own thoughts for people to take on board ... or not.

I think I do add my thoughts, whether some believe others are delusional for thinking we are not a top 4 side or we won't make finals or that we are a contender, I'm always interested in the why

I personally like to know what different people are thinking. I love the diversity of opinion and characters.

So do I, it's a great board, differing robust opinions/debates are healthy.

If people believe we should be making 6 changes from that game, or none, I'm still interested in the why

 

[macky99]

This and then sum!

Too many on here saying, move on, we just had a bad night… RUBBISH.

We were the globetrotters in the first qtr, then we drank some of our own bath water at the break, they swung some changes and our world fell apart and we got exposed and the rest of the comp would be taking notes, I know I would…

TDK got smashed physically and couldn’t cope.
Giants put a small on Cripps and a big on Walsh, fantastic ploy which totally wiped out Walsh, Cripps was so-so.
Ball going forward was directed at Hogan because he was toweling up a smaller less defensive defender (we can’t carry him anymore), literally either side of 3/4 time cost us the momentum and ultimately the game.
Hewitt straight back in.
Charlie needs a Voss chat as well.
Ollie is just not big enough to impact a contest.

We want to win the flag, the ruthless Voss will show his face soon…

Cripps was not so-so he was the one player who played near his best, 33 disposals and played a lone hand during large chunks of the game, problem was he did not have enough support.

 

[blues4flag]

The loss doesn’t hurt us too much in the long run, so I’m fairly philosophical about it. It was a poor performance, certainly.

I feel the thing that it re-exposed was lack of footspeed. Through second and third quarters we were smashed in run and spread, and their little guys with pace broke away from the packs for fun. They just found so many targets all over the field, whereas I’d swear we only had about one or two kicks to a teammate that were marked in those quarters.

Similar to the Swans shellacking where they got pace and space and we could not keep up.

A few issues compounded to result in a complete breakdown through the middle of the game.

The Giants put huge pressure on us through clearance dominance and good ball movement. We were unable to sink that pressure with Weiters and McGovern injured / hampered in d50.

We also couldn't get numbers at the drop of the ball when we did get it in our half, and turn it into a territory battle. GWS rebounded at ease until late in the 3rd quarter.

If our other parts of our game are in order, we're generally able to counter that speed by winning the ball back defensively (we lose less contests in d50 than any team in the comp) or controlling the territory battle (our forward pressure game is elite). With both those areas off, we had no answers.

I wonder if Curnow's supposed ankle is why we didn't throw him back to regain some control behind the footy. That's a lever we've pulled consistently that we didn't see at all yesterday.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Wins also expose problems, both also create situations for improvement

Indeed, but if you're querying the doom and gloom after a loss, you're definitely not going to be happy with people discussing problems after a win.

Like every game or result, they'll assess, what worked and what didn't

Which is what most posters are doing.

People can use this footy forum to discuss any number of theories, they may only want to post after a win or a lose, it's their prerogative, but others can also debate a counter position or opinion

Of course and I want everyone to do that. I just don't think there is one way to feel, or that any opinion is not as valid because the receiver doesn't feel the same way. That's my only point here.

 

[Blue Dimension]

Two blatant areas that allowed them to do what they did last night:

1. Briggs mauled TDK. We struggled to get a centre clearance after quarter time while they constantly waltzed out of the middle and smashed it into their 50 continually. If we play Giants in a final there is zero chance we go in with just TDK. Zero. Zilch. Nada!

2. Their transition between the arcs was light-speed - over and over and over again. Absolutely dismantled our structures and defence.

I’d rather have this happen now and work on it than be blindsided in a finals match. But gee that was frustrating to watch.

 

[Moon]

Last time we played Giants we played 2 Rucks ... TDK and Pitto.
It was when 2 Rucks was a success.
This time only TDK and look how that went. Why didn't they revert back to include Pitto again against the Giants?
Pitto should at least have been on the interchange. We were smashed in the ruck contest and our midfield suffered.

Wondering ... how difficult is it for teams playing Giants on their home turf?
I'm looking for an excuse to just write this one off. GWS were very good in the 2nd and 3rd. We got dominated

 

[95blues]

Ruckman blocking at the centre bounce seems to not being called anymore. TDK has been doing it a lot during his run of good form but it got turned on him in a big way lastnight.

 

[Michael Jezz]

He really should be at minimum a 3 goal a game 15+ possessions player, at a MINIMUM.

He’s fast, he’s strong, has a fantastic leap and tank, yet everytime the ball goes near him someone is on him or nearby. He has to get better at making space for himself or at least running his opponents into the ground. Frustrating, special thing that Charlie is.

Very few players in the history of the game average 3 goals a game. I would bet less than 5 in the last 25 yrs

 

[Rustica]

My first time to ENGIE. Was a fun sort of country game vibe to it. Venue is pretty good.

What was jarring was this:

Crowd: 11,730 at Engie Stadium

Yikes. AFL has a long way to go in Western Sydney. The light shows and music after every goal felt pretty hollow when there were about 1500 GWS fans there only.

Was easily close to 10k Carlton supporters

 

[Arr0w]

Indeed, but if you're querying the doom and gloom after a loss, you're definitely not going to be happy with people discussing problems after a win.

I posed the question, as in why, so I'm trying to elicit a response, rather than shutting debate down

Which is what most posters are doing.

Agreed its healthy, exploring different views

Of course and I want everyone to do that. I just don't think there is one way to feel, or that any opinion is not as valid because the receiver doesn't feel the same way. That's my only point here.

Never been interested in mass think, nor would I be swayed by a majority consensus, I think it's great people see players and results from a different lense

Personally, while we had a putrid, poor level of intent for about an hour of footy, which directly and indirectly impacted our effectiveness, I don't believe it's a habit or trend in our game or this team at the moment

Was it purely intent, poor matchups, selection and or structures, I not sure just yet, so it would be great to get the thoughts of others

 

[Beyond Blue]

Curnow has been shocking this year. He has shown glimpses or brilliance but nowhere near his best. For those saying he is on his way to winning a third Coleman, I say it says more about his competition than it does him.

There are 2 different Curnow's that roll up, first one is one that is willing to roll his sleeves up and work for his goals. We saw this Curnow against Essendon.

The other Curnow is a lazy, lack lustre Mr Hollywood Curnow, which we saw tonight and against Richmond. This version you will see him trying to wrestle his opponent and stroll as if to "chase" his opponent only for that said opponent to waltz away with no pressure.

Extremely frustrating but does have the potential to offer 4-5 minutes of brilliance where he may kick you 4 goals in a blink of an eye.

Shocking is a bit over the top. Yes he was down last night and I thought he was poor against the Pies and Tigers but he’s still the leading goal kicker in the comp and he played a significant role in at least 4 games we have won this season.

Frankly I don’t think he has been any better or worse than last year. Last night wasn’t a great night for him but it was a tough night for our forwards given the ball barely went into our forward 50 for the best part of an hour.

 

[Moon]

The good part of having the twin towers is that when one is down the other fires up.
Last night was Harry's turn.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I posed the question, as in why, so I'm trying to elicit a response, rather than shutting debate down

I see. Maybe the wording got me. If these opinions are being described as 'gloom and doom', it suggests that it's an overreaction. Probably very few of these opinions are gloom and doom, at least for our season prospects.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

I disagree. This has been coming for a while. IMO some of his efforts over past 4-6 weeks have been a disgrace

Even the best deserve criticism for poor efforts and that’s what I’m seeing

Sure he wasn’t good last night but to imply I’m suggesting he isn’t deserving of criticism is a fallacy

Of course he hasn’t been great but his efforts haven’t been a “disgrace”

He’s winning the Coleman. At best he’s kicking bags at worst he’s serving as a reference point for our smalls to crumb from or spread from

 

[Kruezing]

I believe we conspired to ensure the filth drop out of the 8 today … that’s what I believe and I’m sticking with it … onto next week lol

 

[Arr0w]

Sure he wasn’t good last night but to imply I’m suggesting he isn’t deserving of criticism is a fallacy

Of course he hasn’t been great but his efforts haven’t been a “disgrace”

He’s winning the Coleman. At best he’s kicking bags at worst he’s serving as a reference point for our smalls to crumb from or spread from

Still not sure why Charlie, moreso the coaches, aren't changing the look for Charlie's opponents

Buckley is very underrated and he had plenty of help, but unless you change things up, defenders get into a comfortable zone

Start him deep, start him on a wing, get him on his bike, just change it up

 

[ctwenty1]

Cripps was not so-so he was the one player who played near his best, 33 disposals and played a lone hand during large chunks of the game, problem was he did not have enough support.

Our too most important players are cripps and weitering. Not just because of their obvious talent but their leadership. The playing group as whole need to know how to step up when either of those two are off unexpectedly.

Walsh, Cerra and Charlie were disappointing last night. I know they weren’t orphans but they in particular have a significant impact on our performance.

I think we will find Hewitt and Owies back.

We also learnt a lesson on rucking- when we play two and when we play one. Tom is still very young to be taking on gorillas on his own.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Still not sure why Charlie, moreso the coaches, aren't changing the look for Charlie's opponents

Buckley is very underrated and he had plenty of help, but unless you change things up, defenders get into a comfortable zone

Start him deep, start him on a wing, get him on his bike, just change it up

Thought he looked by far his best when they got him out of the 50.

Had some very dangerous possessions and passed after the halfway point of the third.



On Pixel 7a using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

Yeah, I thought I saw a few elbows into Crippa’s kidneys when he was on the ground.

McMullin attacked the kidneys of Cripps when laying flat on the ground while another GWS player lay on top of him.
Hero of the week, real tough guy

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Still not sure why Charlie, moreso the coaches, aren't changing the look for Charlie's opponents

Buckley is very underrated and he had plenty of help, but unless you change things up, defenders get into a comfortable zone

Start him deep, start him on a wing, get him on his bike, just change it up

I was screaming out for Vossy to do something during the game. Change it up, get Walsh or Charlie freed up.

Voss said they tweaked some things but they didn't work. He also said that our run with roles were going okay, but we had to stop them to try to stem the momentum.

I didn't really notice any of these changes though. It looked very same-ish while it was all happening.

 

[ctwenty1]

A few issues compounded to result in a complete breakdown through the middle of the game.

The Giants put huge pressure on us through clearance dominance and good ball movement. We were unable to sink that pressure with Weiters and McGovern injured / hampered in d50.

We also couldn't get numbers at the drop of the ball when we did get it in our half, and turn it into a territory battle. GWS rebounded at ease until late in the 3rd quarter.

If our other parts of our game are in order, we're generally able to counter that speed by winning the ball back defensively (we lose less contests in d50 than any team in the comp) or controlling the territory battle (our forward pressure game is elite). With both those areas off, we had no answers.

I wonder if Curnow's supposed ankle is why we didn't throw him back to regain some control behind the footy. That's a lever we've pulled consistently that we didn't see at all yesterday.

Yep- normally he is down back last two minutes of each quarter. Not last night

 

[Blue and Silver]

I don't want to get into trying to analyse what happened to us structurally, because I am just some dude on the Internet.

But I do think it's better to have these challenges now then in September.

I trust the coaching staff and players to take a thorough review of what went wrong

On Pixel 7a using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Michael Jezz]

Blaming one player, such as Cottrell, Ollie or even Fantasia, etc is flawed

We were spanked at contests between the arcs/all over the ground for about 50-60 minutes

Main concern was we couldn't match their intensity

Yes but we know Voss will engender intensity for finals. All teams have bad games. I define main concerns in the context of winning a premiership against sides that can win it outside, run and carry. They are

1. Walsh is not providing the outside run of last years finals. Has he lost pace? Is he being tagged? Solution: select cunningham or if fit martin, build cerra to free up walsh

2. Curnow needs to be at his best to win a premiership? Is it fitness or mental? I would give him a week off. Needs to get separation on the lead Does this make Martin's fitness and selection imperative?

3. Weitering glues our whole defence. Pray he is fit. We can not win a flag without his full fitness. Gift Marchbank a few games to prepare him as back up or I would experiment 2 rucks for 1 game only, with Dekonig at centre half back. If weiters misses a prelim or GF, kemp can not fill the defensive breach. At least have a plan B

4. Fantasia is not best 22. This selection is exiting an extra contest player (Hewett), outside mid ( Cunners) or 2nd Ruckman. Anyone of those options were better last night.

5. Selection may require the non selection of Owies or Cottrel in the best 22 as Martin, Cunningham or Motlop give us more outside, free up Curnow etc.

 

[Soapy V]

Sure he wasn’t good last night but to imply I’m suggesting he isn’t deserving of criticism is a fallacy

Of course he hasn’t been great but his efforts haven’t been a “disgrace”

He’s winning the Coleman. At best he’s kicking bags at worst he’s serving as a reference point for our smalls to crumb from or spread from

Couldn't disagree more. I could easily highlight 5-6 efforts over last month that should never be tolerated. IMO they are a disgrace

Lack of effort is one thing I will never tolerate from a Carlton jumper

 

[DangerousD]

We had a lot of concerning efforts from players, but Charlie seriously needs a rocket. His efforts just aren't good enough. We get a couple of highlights from him per game, but his consistency of effort just isn't there.

Rarely pressures, spoils or chases, gives up on contests if he’s out of position too.

None of this stuff takes skill, I really hope our leaders hit him between the eyes with this stuff