Autopsy 2024 Rd 17 Blues take a giant step backwards

[Blue_Fusion]

It does show we fight until the end..

Sure, but it doesn't tell you that there was a near 80 point turn around at one stage...

Once off, you can put it behind... but this is the second time now...

 

[skadoosh]

Couldn't disagree more. I could easily highlight 5-6 efforts over last month that should never be tolerated. IMO they are a disgrace

Lack of effort is one thing I will never tolerate from a Carlton jumper

Yup, I'd label it a 'disgrace' in the sense that they do not and should not meet Vossy's standards.

If Charlie doesn't mark the ball and it spills to an opposition player he either doesn't get up off the ground to chase or makes the most feeble attempt at doing so.

I wouldnt say 5-6 times in the last month. But this essentially happens at every single contest where Charlie doesn't straight up mark the ball.

 

[Blue since 72]

I’m starting with a positive, Crippa’s sprint coach has been hella worthwhile.

Weitering missing for a large chunk of the second was a massive negative to our defensive structure.
Fact is given his importance and ability he can’t be completely covered for anyway.

Charlie didn’t do enough off the ball, intent just wasn’t there, but someone mentioned he rolled an ankle in the warmup so it is what it is. Tbh in terms of his chasing it still didn’t look much different to his normal efforts.

Some unfortunate frees in the second in front of their goal didn’t help but this was “just the game”.

Personally I think George’s bigger body would have been handy as would have Owies playing a full game (really weird decision). both poor calls by the mc for mine. Could also debate the merits of Pitt staying in for this one, Briggs smashed TDK particularly in the 3rd when we needed to get the momentum back and off the back of that our mids were towelled up.

Hard to find best apart from Crippa but i’ll go with Newman, Kennedy and some love to Harry for 5 but a lot of players who had been performing just couldn’t get into the game.

 

[Ezayyak]

Nothing got to do with selection, besides playing Oweis as sub. GWS were able to exploit our weakness brilliantly in the second and third quarters, which is when we are off with pressure forward of centre teams can exploit our lack of pace to cut us up on the rebound.

Also, Hogan destroying Kemp and Weitering playing injured meant our last line of defence were at 6s and 7s trying to scramble.

But the main alarm bell is they were able to slam home 14 goals to 3 in 2 quarters. This cannot be repeated if we are going to be serious challengers.

Oh yeah, Charlie is in the worst form of his post injury career.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Yup, I'd label it a 'disgrace' in the sense that they do not and should not meet Vossy's standards.

If Charlie doesn't mark the ball and it spills to an opposition player he either doesn't get up off the ground to chase or makes the most feeble attempt at doing so.

I wouldnt say 5-6 times in the last month. But this essentially happens at every single contest where Charlie doesn't straight up mark the ball.

To me it seems like he's carrying something and doesn't want to over exert himself and risk further injury

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I’m starting with a positive, Crippa’s sprint coach has been hella worthwhile.

Weitering missing for a large chunk of the second was a massive negative to our defensive structure.
Fact is given his importance and ability he can’t be completely covered for anyway.

Charlie didn’t do enough off the ball, intent just wasn’t there, but someone mentioned he rolled an ankle in the warmup so it is what it is. Tbh in terms of his chasing it still didn’t look much different to his normal efforts.

Some unfortunate frees in the second in front of their goal didn’t help but this was “just the game”.

Personally I think George’s bigger body would have been handy as would have Owies playing a full game (really weird decision). both poor calls by the mc for mine. Could also debate the merits of Pitt staying in for this one, Briggs smashed TDK particularly in the 3rd when we needed to get the momentum back and off the back of that our mids were towelled up.

Hard to find best apart from Crippa but i’ll go with Newman, Kennedy and some love to Harry for 5 but a lot of players who had been performing just couldn’t get into the game.

Owies was a victim of Fanta's game v Richmond.

He was the sub against the Dockers and it didn't work that day either.

 

[95blues]

I was screaming out for Vossy to do something during the game. Change it up, get Walsh or Charlie freed up.

Voss said they tweaked some things but they didn't work. He also said that our run with roles were going okay, but we had to stop them to try to stem the momentum.

I didn't really notice any of these changes though. It looked very same-ish while it was all happening.

I think he said "they tried to mix it up but we werent getting near it so it was hard to tell what was working or not".

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Still not sure why Charlie, moreso the coaches, aren't changing the look for Charlie's opponents

Buckley is very underrated and he had plenty of help, but unless you change things up, defenders get into a comfortable zone

Start him deep, start him on a wing, get him on his bike, just change it up

Agreed, he runs a 6m 2k - which is staggering for a FF. No chance the average KPD is matching his aerobic capacity.

 

[95blues]

Agreed, he runs a 6m 2k - which is staggering for a FF. No chance the average KPD is matching his aerobic capacity.

I dont think Charlie is aerobically/mobility wise what he once was.

Hes forever a deep forward now.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Sure he wasn’t good last night but to imply I’m suggesting he isn’t deserving of criticism is a fallacy

Of course he hasn’t been great but his efforts haven’t been a “disgrace”

He’s winning the Coleman. At best he’s kicking bags at worst he’s serving as a reference point for our smalls to crumb from or spread from

I'd love to see the numbers for how many times each of our forwards is the target of our entries. It's one thing to be leading the Coleman (in another low scoring year for full forwards), but if you are getting targetted 25 times per game and only kicking one or two goals, that has a flow on effect.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I think he said "they tried to mix it up but we werent getting near it so it was hard to tell what was working or not".

Yeah, that's more like what he said. I didn't really see what was being mixed up though.

 

[skadoosh]

To me it seems like he's carrying something and doesn't want to over exert himself and risk further injury

It seems the way he's always played as a forward.

Never really focussed on other teams' forwards, but Harry definitely chases and tackles with greater intent than Charlie.

 

[AceAndy]

Yep. I'm worried about what happens when Weiters is hurt though. Gotta have faith that we are on to it and have a very very cunning plan b, c etc. I think maybe Guv had an issue too? They showed him talking with Dr. We need a Weiters understudy all prepped and ready to go if needed.

I dont think we have a cunning plan b , c or d. Voss never seems to do much re changes within a game , i recall Malcolm Blight saying if the opposition kicks 3 goals in a row you just have to make changes onfield. There seems to be a more just hope everything goes OK rather than making significant changes.

 

[AceAndy]

Why do these threads feel like doom and gloom after a loss

No side is undefeated, plenty have lost a string of games or lost to lower quality sides

GWS still has plenty of talent, despite the fact we should have stemmed the tide

If your pressure, structure is slightly off, that type of results aren't unusual

It's never as good, never as bad

Coz losing sucks.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

I'd love to see the numbers for how many times each of our forwards is the target of our entries. It's one thing to be leading the Coleman (in another low scoring year for full forwards), but if you are getting targetted 25 times per game and only kicking one or two goals, that has a flow on effect.

Those stats are available via CD I just don’t know where or how, David King cites them often

However, it may be a contrary viewpoint but I think he is such a good target not just when he kicks goals, but what he does when he can’t mark it

For instance, against Essendon he tapped one on with one hand to Williams(?) who strolled in for an easy finish, or in the final vs Sydney he dived and spiked the ball to Cottrell

I’m of the opinion that him serving as a focal point has served the smalls around him extremely well

 

[bourbons]

Charlie needs a Voss chat as well.

Was hoping that chat might have come at some stage during the game last night. Seems very hesitant move him up the ground and try something else to get him involved when he's being beaten (other than going behind the ball at the end of quarters).

Ollie is just not big enough to impact a contest.

Yeah he'll be good long term, but will struggle in the contest until he gets another 2 or 3 seasons in the gym under his belt. Would have sent him back for a rest rather than Hewett.

 

[JJBagger]

I think he said "they tried to mix it up but we werent getting near it so it was hard to tell what was working or not".

That was the issue, we couldn’t get our hands on the ball. Also no point blaming the forward line when we had 8 inside 50’s in the time the giants kicked 14 goals. This loss is largely on the mids, their effort after quarter time was horrid. Have no doubt this will be fixed, Voss would’ve been livid in the post game review

 

[Blue since 72]

Owies was a victim of Fanta's game v Richmond.

He was the sub against the Dockers and it didn't work that day either.

Either that or Cotts inclusion, think he should have played 2’s first if it was at the expense of Owies.

 

[Juice030103]

Just to boost the mood a bit

Pies lost 3 of their last 5 in 2023

Lions lost by 40 to the suns in round 20 last season


Both still made the grand final, teams have slip ups

 

[JJBagger]

Just to boost the mood a bit

Pies lost 3 of their last 5 in 2023

Lions lost by 40 to the suns in round 20 last season


Both still made the grand final, teams have slip ups

Tigers were down 92-10 at half time against the saints in round 16, 2017.

 

[bourbons]

3. Weitering glues our whole defence. Pray he is fit. We can not win a flag without his full fitness. Gift Marchbank a few games to prepare him as back up or I would experiment 2 rucks for 1 game only, with Dekonig at centre half back. If weiters misses a prelim or GF, kemp can not fill the defensive breach. At least have a plan B

Thats an interesting one. We do desperately need another KPD, hadn't thought of giving TDK a run there (w/ Pitto back in obviously).

4. Fantasia is not best 22. This selection is exiting an extra contest player (Hewett), outside mid ( Cunners) or 2nd Ruckman. Anyone of those options were better last night.

So much this. But I get it, you can't really drop a bloke after he kicks 4 lol. Suspect he will be this week though.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

My first time to ENGIE. Was a fun sort of country game vibe to it. Venue is pretty good.

What was jarring was this:

Crowd: 11,730 at Engie Stadium

Yikes. AFL has a long way to go in Western Sydney. The light shows and music after every goal felt pretty hollow when there were about 1500 GWS fans there only.

That’s an indictment, embarrassing as hell to have such a shit crowd when they’re as competitive as they are year in and year out.

As a club they’ve been so far in front of Gold Coast it’s not funny, imagine when it’s their time to have a go at being shit


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Those stats are available via CD I just don’t know where or how, David King cites them often

However, it may be a contrary viewpoint but I think he is such a good target not just when he kicks goals, but what he does when he can’t mark it

For instance, against Essendon he tapped one on with one hand to Williams(?) who strolled in for an easy finish, or in the final vs Sydney he dived and spiked the ball to Cottrell

I’m of the opinion that him serving as a focal point has served the smalls around him extremely well

I think Harry brings the ball to ground more than Charlie, or at least to more favourable positions. There are so many entries where Charlie just does not compete in the air or on the ground.

 

[gbatman]

Game was won and lost in the middle, we got a belting, if it wasn't for Cripps is would have been a real flogging.

Cerra has not come back well.
Kennedy is going ok but had battled to get up for this game.
Walsh was down on output.
E Hollands didn't have the big onball influence I was expecting.
Hewett did not play.

Our mids were well beaten and that's the big part of this story.

Cincotta tagged Coniglio, did ok but I would not be raving about it. I think it was Cerra who played on Green at times, not sure if we payed him too much attention but he was the top disposal getter for them and usually is.

We also made some roll of the dice selections that blew up on us.

Cottrell is not a good enough footballer to walk straight back into this team and start on the field and that was reinforced. That was ridiculous. I think they were experimenting and it failed. He got smashed by Whitfield. Cottrell IS NOT a good defensive player. It's often been the case over the years that his man gets a lot of it. Cuningham would have been a better option, he defends the half forward flank a lot better. Cottrell was just about worst on ground for us. I'm not a big Cottrell fan, I think we have better. I have never liked his defensive work and I think his footy IQ is second rate.

Owies is one of our more consistent goal kickers, should have started on the field.

Hogan kicked a bag on Kemp. It's Weitering's job to take the number one key forward and beat them. Are we trying to get Kemp dropped? Kemp is not a fullback. CHB or back pocket. Weitering is a fullback and played back pocket.

Losing games where we have a big quarter time lead is becoming too common for us.

 

[Dadda Dave]

Sure, but it doesn't tell you that there was a near 80 point turn around at one stage...

Once off, you can put it behind... but this is the second time now...

I get that ,it could of also blown out to 6 or 7 loss..
I hope Vossy gives the players a rocket and he also takes accountability for a couple of mind boggling selections.