Autopsy 2024 Rd 18 Blues fail to fire for their skipper

[JustOneTime]

I didn’t watch the game as away in nature without any signal.

A blessing it seems.

On return I read the thread & expected to watch a horror show given the oratory coronaries.

I watched the reply tonight & it’s a long way from a terrible performance.

Did we make mistakes? yes

Did we take our chances? no

Did we select the right team? no

Did we play terribly? no

Should we have won? yes

I agree it was a dumb move not playing Hewy or Kennedy & playing 2 rucks.

Let’s hope they’ve learned that lesson!

Hewy & Kennedy in.

Pitto & Ollie out.

Play Cez on the wing - rotating Walsh mid.

Martin in for Willo.

Missing McGovern who covers Kemps weaknesses. Marchbank was OK early & will be better for the run.

It looks like MC are still searching for our most potent/balanced mix.

At least they’ve found what doesn’t work.

The voice of reason. It's always much better watching later than in the moment.

Can we hurt north Melbourne. I really hate them!

 

[Y Goat]

I didn’t watch the game as away in nature without any signal.

A blessing it seems.

On return I read the thread & expected to watch a horror show given the oratory coronaries.

I watched the reply tonight & it’s a long way from a terrible performance.

Did we make mistakes? yes

Did we take our chances? no

Did we select the right team? no

Did we play terribly? no

Should we have won? yes

I agree it was a dumb move not playing Hewy or Kennedy & playing 2 rucks.

Let’s hope they’ve learned that lesson!

Hewy & Kennedy in.

Pitto & Ollie out.

Play Cez on the wing - rotating Walsh mid.

Martin in for Willo.

Missing McGovern who covers Kemps weaknesses. Marchbank was OK early & will be better for the run.

It looks like MC are still searching for our most potent/balanced mix.

At least they’ve found what doesn’t work.

“At least they’ve found what doesn’t work.”


Lol. Well said.

Think a few changes likely, and I’d be going with :

Motlop in
Hewett in
Cunners an option
fantasia an option if/when fit

to replace Zac (inj), Ollie, Cottrell

Gov & Martin - wait a week If we can

1 ruck, TDK against most, but Pitto occasionally against a beast (eg Gawn) thus giving Tom a rest and keeping Pitto in condition if called upon

S Durdin to get a try over next few weeks, so as to be an option in finals

Happy with the Cinc role and keen to see lots of midfield time there. *1 of Hewett/Cinc/Kennedy in centre at all times, defence & blocking etc.

Happy with the Williams shift forward

Like to see Kemp tried up the ground as a more attacking option, suiting his natural attributes & talents

Need to settle team structure and pull it together now, have let 2 tough/tight games slip and don’t want to see the top 2 possy slip

Go blues get cracking in now - hunt and destroy

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Points Against looks horrible on the ladder. Been that way for most of the year, except in the earlier rounds when our defence held us in games. We have been tinkering all year with the right blend of offence and defence and we need to recalibrate again.

Scores from stoppages is a real issue.

Our back six have not been great for the last few weeks either.

And to the eye we have not tackled or trapped ball in forward 50 as effectively.

Essentially we have fallen away defensively in all parts of the ground.

Motlop in for Williams will help forward 50 pressure.

Might be time to add an extra big defender to release Kemp and help Weitering. That allows us to drop boyd who is struggling and bring in an extra mid.

Think hewitt comes in, and we try and move cerra back out to the wing, omitting Hollands or Cottrell. This likely squeeze Pitto out due to rotation demands, but with and extra big say young, we have more options as second ruck.

no point throwing darts at the back six unless you throw darts at the defensive efforts, or lack thereof, of the forward 6 and the midfield group first...

 

[Santo the king]

no point throwing darts at the back six unless you throw darts at the defensive efforts, or lack thereof, of the forward 6 and the midfield group first...

Exactly

 

[Blue Pulse]

This move has been good for Charlie and the team.

He gets involved in link up play and it gets him away from the wrestling matches with KPDs which is terrible viewing.

Coaches take too long to make these moves imo.

This should not require coaching, how old are they? Charlie and Harry should be rotating up the ground anyway especially with TDK sitting forward as well as it separates the back men and creates space. If they feel they are getting bogged down, then get into the play through other methods.

 

[Blue Pulse]

Haven't watched the replay yet, not sure if I will, so going by memory, my thoughts of on the night:

• Not a fan of 2 rucks, but understand it will be needed to nurse TDK through the season so he hits the finals in good form. Unfortunately Pitto was very ordinary, he has to take 3-4 marks around the ground other wise he is unaccountable. In hindsight, Lewis young
  33

  Lewis Young

  Age

  25

  Ht

  202cm

  Wt

  99kg

  Pos.

  Def

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  11.6

  3star

  K

  7.5

  3star

  HB

  4.1

  3star

  M

  4.4

  4star

  T

  1.6

  4star

  MG

  197.9

  3star

  D

  4.0

  1star

  K

  3.0

  1star

  HB

  1.0

  1star

  M

  3.0

  3star

  T

  0.0

  1star

  MG

  26.0

  1star

  D

  14.4

  4star

  K

  8.2

  4star

  HB

  6.2

  4star

  M

  6.4

  5star

  T

  2.0

  4star

  MG

  181.6

  3star

  on Sam Darcey and follow him into the ruck, may have been a better option as unfortunately Marchbank couldn't keep his feet.
• Williams going down hurts our forward line as he is the only one with real pace. Motlop needs to come in for him, not so much for pace but he adds x factor, can produce a goal from nothing.
• The slow ball movement killed us as they set up so well around the drop zone, when in doubt kick to H, Charlie, TDK or Pitto. Unfortunately our kicking was so poor we weren't even getting it close to them.
• Forward pressure was non existent
• Cotterell and Cerra should have come back through the 2's for touch as the team was travelling along nicely and there was no need to panic. Cerra I thought was better but Cotterell is killing us
• Hewiitt our best defensive mid non selection and Kennedy sub, 2 x hardnuts is just mind boggling.
• Boyd could not hit the side of a barn with his kicking, Charlie and Walsh were not much better but weren't alone.
• I would forgive Charlie for his lack of pressure if he kicked straight. H and Owies disappeared with a few others after the 1/2 time
• Another 7 goal blitz in the 2nd qtr, what the hell is going on?
• We looked so flat in warm up compared to the dogs, it was just too noticeable form the side lines.

 

[BluStreak]

Against all odds, Pitto gave us first use of the ball at stoppages but our mids were swamped even before they touched the ball. Several times Pitto even got first clearances. He took marks or spoiled in the defensive 50.

So Please stop saying he is very ordinary or should not be playing. He gets the ball when he wins it to one of our mids. That is his job at the stoppage.

The next thing is for him to add a block or two, which is what the other mids should also be doing.

 

[Sector 7G]

Against all odds, Pitto gave us first use of the ball at stoppages but our mids were swamped even before they touched the ball. Several times Pitto even got first clearances. He took marks or spoiled in the defensive 50.

So Please stop saying he is very ordinary or should not be playing. He gets the ball when he wins it to one of our mids. That is his job at the stoppage.

The next thing is for him to add a block or two, which is what the other mids should also be doing.

We had first hands on the ball. Umpires allowed the Dogs to tackle players before/as they were getting the ball on the inside. Ball spilled to the outside where they were and were then able to take it away.. It is not like their midfield did us for pace, they were just on the outside

 

[Blue Pulse]

Against all odds, Pitto gave us first use of the ball at stoppages but our mids were swamped even before they touched the ball. Several times Pitto even got first clearances. He took marks or spoiled in the defensive 50.

So Please stop saying he is very ordinary or should not be playing. He gets the ball when he wins it to one of our mids. That is his job at the stoppage.

The next thing is for him to add a block or two, which is what the other mids should also be doing.

Zero marks against the Bulldogs. He was good against Richmond, that is his baseline that he should be aiming for. His centre clearance were hack kicks which fell into the arms of defenders because our forwards were napping. At 202cm you must be taking grabs around the ground.

Sam Darcey 5 marks, Tim English 6 marks
TDK 5 marks

 

[Blue Pulse]

We had first hands on the ball. Umpires allowed the Dogs to tackle players before/as they were getting the ball on the inside. Ball spilled to the outside where they were and were then able to take it away.. It is not like their midfield did us for pace, they were just on the outside

The amount of times they came out the defensive side was ridiculous at centre clearances and in marking contests around the ground and we let them do it all night.

 

[gbatman]

I know its easy to find footage to suit an argument, but the footage they showed on, On the couch where we had most of our players set up on the attacking side of a stoppage and when the Dogs got possession were able to walk the ball out with no opposition, Buckley just highlighted that Acres should have been set up on the defensive side, filling the hole the Dogs were able to exit through, if we win the stoppage Acres would still be in a position to get in the chain.

It looked more like just a poor set up, rather than an effort or speed thing.

I've seen this. I don't think we actually ever go with a full defensive/pressure setup at stoppage.

I'd be more than happy to source a new midfield coach.

Adam Simpson was the midfield and forward coach under Clarkson at Hawthorn. They won the 2013 premiership. He won the 2018 premiership at the WCE as senior coach.

If we aren't having a red hot go at him we have rocks in our heads. He would be a massive upgrade on Tim Clarke you would think.

 

[timbertron]

I know its easy to find footage to suit an argument, but the footage they showed on, On the couch where we had most of our players set up on the attacking side of a stoppage and when the Dogs got possession were able to walk the ball out with no opposition, Buckley just highlighted that Acres should have been set up on the defensive side, filling the hole the Dogs were able to exit through, if we win the stoppage Acres would still be in a position to get in the chain.

It looked more like just a poor set up, rather than an effort or speed thing.

Yeah I don't think effort was an issue.

 

[JustOneTime]

Against all odds, Pitto gave us first use of the ball at stoppages but our mids were swamped even before they touched the ball. Several times Pitto even got first clearances. He took marks or spoiled in the defensive 50.

So Please stop saying he is very ordinary or should not be playing. He gets the ball when he wins it to one of our mids. That is his job at the stoppage.

The next thing is for him to add a block or two, which is what the other mids should also be doing.

Give some balance to the equation when evaluating a player:

• Zero marks for the game
• Accredited 2 clearances only
• 43% disposal meaning he quite often gave his possessions to the opposition
• Every match in my memory he gives away an infringement in front of goal. This week it only cost a point as Darcy missed what he should of kicked. It's been goals in other matches.

The good (and there is some good):

• He did some good taps to adv that our mids fumbled losing the adv
• He won the taps when he was in there

Summary
Watching the game back and evaluating him. He didn't provide bullocking or clearance enough. He won the tapouts but most of them are so close to ineffective tapout wins that result in a disputed ball. When he wins, some went to tap out to adv yes. Some went to the opposition. They need a stat for rucks (applied to TDK too) that covers tapouts to disadvantage. What I'm saying is..his tapouts to adv arent strong enough yet to offset the rest of his weaknesses in addition to the fact he is a liability everywhere else except the bench.

It's wrong to debate Pitto vs 2 rucks. It's right to evaluate whether he should be actually playing right now in the firsts. I can only think the MC wanted insurance this week for TDK and it backfired.

IMO Pitto gets a game when he can bullock hard and win the tapouts. That and take a mark or gain good clearance numbers to support Cripps. Needs to steamroller through the midfield to be worth what he costs us. The 2 ruck debate is something else.

 

[BlueTongue]

Khamis had some nice moments, but hardly did a job on Charlie.

I thought his one on one lockdown stuff was pretty good. It was only when Charlie had had enough of wrestling that he started coming up the ground and having more shots on goal.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

I think you need to go check how teams who concede a lot of points go in grand finals.

They don’t make them and if by chance they do, they don’t win.

How else do you rank a teams defence if not against points against?

The last 20 premiers at least have had a top 6 defence, as in top 6 for points against, how many years will you have to go back to find a premier who was 15th?

For a good side, our team defence is a joke

A strong defence is a vital and necessary component in any championship winning team.

This is just one example here from the EPL but Newcastle United in the 90's under Kevin Keegan were a good team, but they would always concede a load of goals as well.

Newcastle won nothing as well btw! We aren't winning any flag without a strong defence imo.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

The voice of reason. It's always much better watching later than in the moment.

Can we hurt north Melbourne. I really hate them!

I don’t see why we won’t.

We have a potent team - hoping we get the midfield balance right.

Either way we should beat them by at least 2 goals per qtr.

If we go on a run - 60+

 

[CCurnow3votes]

I thought his one on one lockdown stuff was pretty good. It was only when Charlie had had enough of wrestling that he started coming up the ground and having more shots on goal.

Charlie needs to get his Jeremy Cameron on.

Just copy his running patterns.

 

[bourbons]

A strong defence is a vital and necessary component in any championship winning team.

This is just one example here from the EPL but Newcastle United in the 90's under Kevin Keegan were a good team, but they would always concede a load of goals as well.

Newcastle won nothing as well btw! We aren't winning any flag without a strong defence imo.

Yeah not sure its gonna happen for us this year (flag wise).

15th in the comp for points against, there hasn't been a premier below 6th for the last quarter century.

 

[JJBagger]

Yeah not sure its gonna happen for us this year (flag wise).

15th in the comp for points against, there hasn't been a premier below 6th for the last quarter century.

So history determines everything that happens in the future? Points against doesn’t determine the quality of your team. St. Kilda were number one for points against last year, and got annihilated in an elimination final. Also, we’ve only conceded 40 points more than Geelong, who are the third favourite for the flag

 

[bourbons]

So history determines everything that happens in the future? Points against doesn’t determine the quality of your team. St. Kilda were number one for points against last year, and got annihilated in an elimination final. Also, we’ve only conceded 40 points more than Geelong, who are the third favourite for the flag

True, history doesn't determine everything. All I'm saying is we'd clearly need to buck a pretty major trend to get it done this year.

Premiers for the last 24 years have been top 6 in points for and against - re: the St Kilda example from last year, they'd be nowhere near that in points for. Also can't see Geelong getting it done this year, and they are 4th fave not 3rd.

The are only 2 teams currently top 6 in both stats, Sydney and Brisbane, sounds about right to me for the GF. Hope I'm wrong of course!

 

[gbatman]

I think we need absolutely everything to go right for us to win the flag this season. That means it's possible but it's going to take a bit.

That means getting all our key players fit and on the park and getting some of the midfield and pressure issues sorted out before finals as well as making the top 4. That also probably includes avoiding playing finals interstate, predominantly avoid the SCG.

It's possible at this stage but the likelihood isn't huge. I don't think we can afford to lose any more winnable games.

 

[JJBagger]

I think we need absolutely everything to go right for us to win the flag this season. That means it's possible but it's going to take a bit.

That means getting all our key players fit and on the park and getting some of the midfield and pressure issues sorted out before finals as well as making the top 4. That also probably includes avoiding playing finals interstate, predominantly avoid the SCG.

It's possible at this stage but the likelihood isn't huge. I don't think we can afford to lose any more winnable games.

That’s the same with every premier. The dirty little secret of winning a flag - you need a hell of a lot of luck to win one

 

[Earls Smother]

We have a strong midfield, solid wings, strong rucks and the best tall forwards in the comp, yet we are 15th for points against and we concede the most points of any team in the comp from stoppage.

So our team which is a stoppage based beast, is the worst stoppage defensive team in the comp.

This is system and not players, last season we were strong defensively, this year we aren’t, it’s not a player issue.

We are, but the stats are still skewed by the draw.

We play 4 of the 5 lowest scoring teams in the run home. 3 of them (Haw, St.K and WC) we haven't played at all, yet some teams have played them twice.

Whilst we are 15th, we are only 140 points from being top 6. The ladder is so tight that these draw anomalies need to be taken into account when making assessments at the three quarter point of the season.

 

[bourbons]

We are, but the stats are still skewed by the draw.

We play 4 of the 5 lowest scoring teams in the run home. 3 of them (Haw, St.K and WC) we haven't played at all, yet some teams have played them twice.

Whilst we are 15th, we are only 140 points from being top 6. The ladder is so tight that these draw anomalies need to be taken into account when making assessments at the three quarter point of the season.

Reasonable point, and yep North this week. After Newy and Fog talking up the defensive aspect this week I'd be pretty disappointed if we let the shinboners kick more than 65 or 70.

 

[DangerousD]

We are, but the stats are still skewed by the draw.

We play 4 of the 5 lowest scoring teams in the run home. 3 of them (Haw, St.K and WC) we haven't played at all, yet some teams have played them twice.

Whilst we are 15th, we are only 140 points from being top 6. The ladder is so tight that these draw anomalies need to be taken into account when making assessments at the three quarter point of the season.

I certainly hope so, every week the picture becomes clearer, two losses in a row against teams outside the 8 and both times conceding over 100 points, was not really expected but the season is a strange one.

Hopefully you are right and i hope we see a step in the right direction this week.