Autopsy 2024 Rd 18 Blues fail to fire for their skipper

[JJBagger]

But we've been the worst stoppage defence team all year, haven't we? If not the worst, pretty sure the footy analysis shows keep stating that we're up there with the worst.

We’re not the worst every single week… when we do it well, we win and generally don’t concede high scores

 

[gbatman]

But we've been the worst stoppage defence team all year, haven't we? If not the worst, pretty sure the footy analysis shows keep stating that we're up there with the worst.

Do we need a new midfield/stoppage coach or is it the players?

Just seems to me, the whole time in the Voss era that we don't have a pressure orientated game plan to switch to like most teams do.

Example. Collingwood the last few seasons would start games with a ball hunting game plan at stoppages, if it was failing they would fall back to a pressure orientated game plan. No space or time, high pressure and tackling.

Brisbane in the prelim final. GWS last week. Our game this season against Sydney. These teams started going head to head against us and we flogged them. The changed their structures around the ball so that they could apply tackling pressure, stop our outlets and force the ball into space.

We don't seem to have a stoppage game plan that switches us from a ball winning mode to a tackling and pressure orientated mode.

I still feel that we are a tactically poor side. We are just a side that has an enormous amount of talent.

I think Voss is a good leader, driver of standards and head coach. I don't think he has the tactical prowess under him.

 

[JustOneTime]

We’re not the worst every single week… when we do it well, we win and generally don’t concede high scores

You debate things based on averages...not 'this one time at bandcamp'.

We are happy we are second but there is something to address with the defence. Nothing wrong stating it after 2 losses.

Continual improvement. Lessening the impact of our biggest weakness. Just cause we beat North this week doesnt mean we have solved the problem. It simply means that we are too strong for them despite a given weakness.

It's not even negativity. We have the best forward pairing in the league. We have a top 3 midfield when they are firing. We have lots too like.

But we dont have to be fanboys about the defence which is shipping very easy goals right now and has happened for 2 seasons when the mids are down on form.

 

[jpfalvo]

We are the second highest scoring team by a distance. We also have the second lowest average losing margin behind Sydney. We aren’t the “15th ranked defense”, we’ve just conceded the 15th least amount of points. Says nothing about our abilities to perform and win games. We could concede 100 points a game, but if we score 140 a game, who cares! Also, our game style unfortunately can leave us vulnerable defensively at times, which is just the nature of it

Might be wrong...

But history tells us, teams conceding 100pts a game dont win flags.

Nor so shootout teams.

Typically, and the trend is your friend here, the better defensive teams, limiting scoring are the flag winners.

Isnt this the business we are in?

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[jpfalvo]

Do we need a new midfield/stoppage coach or is it the players?

Just seems to me, the whole time in the Voss era that we don't have a pressure orientated game plan to switch to like most teams do.

Example. Collingwood the last few seasons would start games with a ball hunting game plan at stoppages, if it was failing they would fall back to a pressure orientated game plan. No space or time, high pressure and tackling.

Brisbane in the prelim final. GWS last week. Our game this season against Sydney. These teams started going head to head against us and we flogged them. The changed their structures around the ball so that they could apply tackling pressure, stop our outlets and force the ball into space.

We don't seem to have a stoppage game plan that switches us from a ball winning mode to a tackling and pressure orientated mode.

I still feel that we are a tactically poor side. We are just a side that has an enormous amount of talent.

I think Voss is a good leader, driver of standards and head coach. I don't think he has the tactical prowess under him.

Voss the Motivator.
Not the tactician/strategist.

We rely on talent, not system.
This was a known known deficiency.

What did we do at the end of 2023 to improve this area? Nothing, unless Jordan Russell is that guy?

Id be having a look at Adam Simpson to help out for 2025.

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[gbatman]

Voss the Motivator.
Not the tactician/strategist.

We rely on talent, not system.
This was a known known deficiency.

What did we do at the end of 2023 to improve this area? Nothing, unless Jordan Russell is that guy?

Id be having a look at Adam Simpson to help out for 2025.

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Definitely. Our assistant coaching group hardly excites me. Mostly failed coaches let go by failing clubs. I'd be really surprised if we haven't sounded him out.

I would not mind someone fresh out of the game either. If someone like Scott Pendlebury were to retire then he would be ideal.

 

[DangerousD]

We’d conceded less than 75 points in the 5 weeks before the giants game. We’ve only conceded 40 more points than Geelong who are apparently the second favourite for the flag now.

You mention keeping a team to around 75 points, 5 games in a row as some kind of achievement to dispel our defensive woes.

if we averaged 75 against for the whole of last season, that would have us ranked 5th defensively, it’s close to the minimum standard.

I’m not sure about you but I don’t rate the Cats and think they will get found out.

We aren’t going to get to being one of the top 6 defensive teams in the next 6 games, but we need to sort our crap out and tweak our set ups, so we stop allowing teams to score so easily against us.

If we can’t rectify this, we are wasting our time.

 

[DangerousD]

Like i said; our incredible midfield and forwards covered up their weaknesses. The players going def con5 during those games always hides the issues that are there. It's when we cant maintain that brutal level in games 6/7/8 that the defenders have to carry their own weight.

You been paying attention to Cripps carrying us on his shoulders late in games.

Focusing on one or two games to reinforce a belief is quite selective, we have 17 rounds of evidence to go off.

While I’m sure one or two better defenders might make a difference, our defence is under serious pressure every week due to a lack of pressure up the ground.

We concede big inside 50 numbers and often they are fast repeat entries, it’s very hard for even good defenders to absorb this.

Even against GWS, the ball was transitioning from our forward line and from the centre with no opposition.

 

[DangerousD]

Do we need a new midfield/stoppage coach or is it the players?

We have a strong midfield, solid wings, strong rucks and the best tall forwards in the comp, yet we are 15th for points against and we concede the most points of any team in the comp from stoppage.

So our team which is a stoppage based beast, is the worst stoppage defensive team in the comp.

This is system and not players, last season we were strong defensively, this year we aren’t, it’s not a player issue.

 

[Stamos]

We weren't switched on.

While team selection was obviously a big issue, and we may have won if we had gotten it right, it's just very hard to win when you're not mentally in the game.

It feels like the team just switched off with 20 seconds to go in the first quarter against the Giants, when Weitering inexplicably decided to chip laterally into the centre to Ollie Hollands (Ollie Hollands FFS!) instead of going long down the line. Even if he kicked it on the full instead we go into quarter time an extra goal up. We know what happened in the next 2 quarters.

Our run of good form over the last couple of months was built on doing the basic stuff really well (which was also the basis of the Filth's flag last year). That has completely deserted us over the last 2 weeks.
So many basic mistakes.

Could be due to heavy training loads? Although that would explain being physically off more than mentally off.
Could be due to experimenting with team selection 2 weeks earlier than we should have thought about it. Would have zero issue experimenting against North if we were 8 points clear of 3rd.

Could be just getting ahead of ourselves as we have been want to do over the last however many years of no success.

 

[Stamos]

This is system and not players, last season we were strong defensively, this year we aren’t, it’s not a player issue.

It's both.

 

[JJBagger]

You mention keeping a team to around 75 points, 5 games in a row as some kind of achievement to dispel our defensive woes.

if we averaged 75 against for the whole of last season, that would have us ranked 5th defensively, it’s close to the minimum standard.

I’m not sure about you but I don’t rate the Cats and think they will get found out.

We aren’t going to get to being one of the top 6 defensive teams in the next 6 games, but we need to sort our crap out and tweak our set ups, so we stop allowing teams to score so easily against us.

If we can’t rectify this, we are wasting our time.

Were the 4 teams that would be above us scoring as much as we are? If not, then that’s a completely wasted argument

 

[JJBagger]

You debate things based on averages...not 'this one time at bandcamp'.

We are happy we are second but there is something to address with the defence. Nothing wrong stating it after 2 losses.

Continual improvement. Lessening the impact of our biggest weakness. Just cause we beat North this week doesnt mean we have solved the problem. It simply means that we are too strong for them despite a given weakness.

It's not even negativity. We have the best forward pairing in the league. We have a top 3 midfield when they are firing. We have lots too like.

But we dont have to be fanboys about the defence which is shipping very easy goals right now and has happened for 2 seasons when the mids are down on form.

No, you debate things on current trends. This “trend” is only 2 games old, as opposed to the previous trend of winning and conceded low scores, with was the 5 games before that. Averages can be deceiving. If you conceded 120 points a week for the first 12 weeks, then conceded 50 for the last 11, the average is going to be higher and give a false idea of how you’re going

 

[kreuze_missile]

Do we need a new midfield/stoppage coach or is it the players?

We need to pick a better balance of inside & outside mids.

Walsh & Cerra have no interest in operating on the inside.

Cripps ends up going solo unless Hewett gets picked to give him a chop out.

All comes back to team selection and picking the right players.

The match committee have completely butchered the last fortnight.

 

[Blue Pulse]

I would like to line our selectors up and knock their heads together.

What a farce.

Cottrell playing. Why?

Lack pace forward of the ball but won't pick Cunningham or Motlop.

Picking pittonet an absolute gift to the dogs.

In Cripps 200th we field a team and tactics like that. Imbecilic doesn't come close.

Absolute overconfidence/ arrogance and again - playing favourites at selection table cost us 4 points.

Yep, as soon as Williams went down I said to my son, we've lost our only player with pace in the forward half.

 

[Stamos]

Carlton has a ‘golden opportunity’ to win a flag. History says this glaring flaw will destroy them

Carlton has a ‘golden opportunity’ to win a flag. History says this glaring flaw will destroy them

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

We need to pick a better balance of inside & outside mids.

Walsh & Cerra have no interest in operating on the inside.

Cripps ends up going solo unless Hewett gets picked to give him a chop out.

All comes back to team selection and picking the right players.

The match committee have completely butchered the last fortnight.

This is not an out but, none of us on here would have any idea of the niggles these players are carrying.
The MC are closer to the fire, maybe they are being less transparent denying opposition ammunition to exploit us.

 

[goreds]

Heard plenty about Jamarra this morning, career best 20 disposals and your goals, who was standing him?

Asking for a friend.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Heard plenty about Jamarra this morning, career best 20 disposals and your goals, who was standing him?

Asking for a friend.

He got on the move a bit higher up the ground and took Weitering to areas which played more to his strengths (congestion).

Also got great support from both Weightman & West who often got a body on Weitering to help him get separation at times.

Maybe some good food for thought for both Charlie & our support forwards…..

 

[Stamos]

He got on the move a bit higher up the ground and took Weitering to areas which played more to his strengths (congestion).

Also got great support from both Weightman & West who often got a body on Weitering to help him get separation at times.

Maybe some good for thought for both Charlie & our support forwards…..

Yeah, his 4 goals were:
Pack mark where Weightman got the block on Weitering
Newman clothesline
Handball receive after a collapsed marking pack
Crumbed a boundary throw-in

So while 3 were notionally on Weiters, 2 of those were very much about the team stoppage work.

 

[Blue Pulse]

Not sure Hewett would have made 1 iota of difference TBH. He is no superstar, nor does he bring speed, which is why we got cut up on the outside. Solid player yes, but hardly a game changer. We lacked overall intent and application.

Hewett is our best defensive mid, he is no superstar, but he consistently does his job and was doing it beautifully right up until he got made sub last week.
They controlled the stoppages and consistently came out the back of the stoppages where George usually sets up. Kennedy and Hewett aren't fast but will create a contest to feed our outside mids.

We lacked overall intent and application. Yes, yes we did, but not from Hewett and Kennedy who bring that every week because they know they are not shoo-in's every week if they do not perform

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Yeah, his 4 goals were:
Pack mark where Weightman got the block on Weitering
Newman clothesline
Handball receive after a collapsed marking pack
Crumbed a boundary throw-in

So while 3 were notionally on Weiters, 2 of those were very much about the team stoppage work.

Obvious thing was he got on the move where as more often than not Charlie wants to wrestle or worse he & Harry end up flying for the same ball.

Charlie looked much better late in the game when he got further up the ground, just needs to do the team thing as required and nail the regulation set shots.

 

[BlueTongue]

We need to pick a better balance of inside & outside mids.

Walsh & Cerra have no interest in operating on the inside.

Cripps ends up going solo unless Hewett gets picked to give him a chop out.

All comes back to team selection and picking the right players.

The match committee have completely butchered the last fortnight.

TBH I think bringing Cerra back in has not been a positive thing. I understand that we need to get gametime into him and run into some form before finals, but guys like Hewitt, who barely put a foot wrong, are sitting out game time. I don’t think that helps us or sends the right message. I’d be dropping (my mate) Cotters, moving E Hollands to HF and brining George back in, so we can rotate those guys more. Durdin in for Williams also

 

[Accidental genius]

Obvious thing was he got on the move where as more often than not Charlie wants to wrestle or worse he & Harry end up flying for the same ball.

Charlie looked much better late in the game when he got further up the ground, just needs to do the team thing as required and nail the regulation set shots.

This move has been good for Charlie and the team.

He gets involved in link up play and it gets him away from the wrestling matches with KPDs which is terrible viewing.

Coaches take too long to make these moves imo.

 

[Stamos]

TBH I think bringing Cerra back in has not been a positive thing.

Yeah, in hindsight Cez and Cottrell should have come back though the 2s.