2024 Rolling ALL-Australian Team

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WalshistheGOAT said:
Look I'm as big a fan of Sicily as anyone but I wouldn't have him near the AA team this year. Have there been any other defenders named in peoples teams who have had 4-5 genuinely poor games? Unlikely.
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Out of curiosity, which 4-5 games do you think Sicily was genuinely poor in?

I'll give you Essendon and Geelong but what others?

(I'd reckon there'd be plenty of AA selections over the years to have 2 sub par games, especially if their best is at a particularly high level).

(FWIW, I agree that he is probably only a squad inclusion at this stage but would deserve to be picked if he keeps up the level he has been playing at for the last 6 weeks)
 
eth-dog said:
I'd advise you to stop getting upset about it.

It's not misleading. It's fact based. He had a poor to average start to the year. I'm a fan of his but that counts against him.

He can get there. I said he isn't close to where he needs to be right now. I didn't say he's no chance.

As for the reason I use totals in these sorts of stats is because they show the proper size of the gap. You look at the average score launches per game and the difference between 3rd and 9th on your list is 0.4 per game, hardly anything.

But keep getting offended over the fact I have Sicily the 4th or 5th best medium defender this year.
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Well, if you think Sicily is the 4th or 5th best medium defender this year then you're basically saying he is in the squad of 40 where they always name about a dozen defenders. A far cry from your initial claim that he is "nowhere near where he needs to be for AA and wouldn't be in the squad"

And no, I'm not "upset" by anything you post here. God knows how you extracted that from my post. I just corrected your misleading stats where you compared defenders who have played 11 or 12 games with others who have played 14 games. It is misleading. Hence my use of 'averages' which is generally the more accepted way of statistically ranking players for their disposal counts, tackles, intercepts, pressure acts, score involvements, etc.

Just because I took the time to reply to you with a fairly lengthy post, it doesn't mean I was triggered and having meltdown. I just like posting my opinions and having discussion about this stuff. :thumbsu:
 
Jeremias said:
Not if you twist and omit certain statistics, and then spin around 4 times before reading those that remain.
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Rubbish

Sicily is a good example of a standout, dominant footballer who doesn't need stats to back up his claims for selection.

You only need to watch him play.
 

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Back One Out said:
Well, if you think Sicily is the 4th or 5th best medium defender this year then you're basically saying he is in the squad of 40 where they always name about a dozen defenders. A far cry from your initial claim that he is "nowhere near where he needs to be for AA and wouldn't be in the squad"

And no, I'm not "upset" by anything you post here. God knows how you extracted that from my post. I just corrected your misleading stats where you compared defenders who have played 11 or 12 games with others who have played 14 games. It is misleading. Hence my use of 'averages' which is generally the more accepted way of statistically ranking players for their disposal counts, tackles, intercepts, pressure acts, score involvements, etc.

Just because I took the time to reply to you with a fairly lengthy post, it doesn't mean I was triggered and having meltdown. I just like posting my opinions and having discussion about this stuff. :thumbsu:
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You're not upset? Dude you went on a multi paragraph rant about how good he is, and said "pull your head out of your ass about it". Funny either way.

As far as the squad goes, I'd have the following ahead of him:

Key defenders: Weitering, May, Andrews, Pearce, McGovern
Medium defenders: Ryan, Blakey, Houston, Vlaustin, Wilkie (forgot about him) but the last two are debatable, I'll give that.
Small defenders: Whitfield, Sinclair, Holmes, McGrath

Given they only pick 12 for the squad I'd say right now he's not in there. And yes, that can change and if his form continues to spike he'll pass Vlaustin, Wilkie, McGovern and McGrath in all likelihood. But right now he'd be picked in the third string defence IMO. Which is nowhere near where he needs to be and not in the squad.
 




Champion Data's mid-season All Australian team read out by Hoyne on SEN radio


Dan Houston….…. Sam Collins…….. Nick Blakey
Max Holmes….. Jeremy McGovern… Bailey Dale
Errol Gulden…..…. Nick Daicos……….. Josh Kelly
Chad Warner…. Aaron Naughton…. Harry Sheezel
Tyson Stengle… Jake Waterman.… Izak Rankine

Max Gawn….. Isaac Heeney…. Marcus Bontempelli

Jack Sinclair… Matt Rowell… Caleb Serong… Zach Merrett… Patrick Cripps


Next defender in... James Sicily
Next forward in.... Charlie Curnow
Next midfielder in.. Ed Richards
Next ruckman in... Tom De Koning


Pretty much nothing between Naughton, Waterman and Curnow


Hoyne said that Christian Petracca was easily in the best 18, but they've left him out because he won't play again this year.
 
Jeremias said:
I do watch him play. Right now I don't believe he'd be in the team.

That may change if he has a great back end of the season, but as things currently stand I reckon there are a few ahead of him.
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Yeah, I get there's a lot of media hype surrounding the so-called "locks" (Andrews, Blakey, Pearce, Weitering,)
The groundswell of sheep opinions & groupthink is usually pretty good indicator

I just think Sicily is clearly one of the gun defenders in the AFL who has played brilliantly over the past couple of months and warrants being included in the AA discussion.

Seems highly reductive to leave him out of the discussion because he played a couple of ordinary games back in March/April and you prefer 3 or 4 others.
 
Back One Out said:
Yeah, I get there's a lot of media hype surrounding the so-called "locks" (Andrews, Blakey, Pearce, Weitering,)
The groundswell of sheep opinions & groupthink is usually pretty good indicator
Click to expand...

I don't see Andrews, Pearce, Weitering as the comparison. Blakey yes.

Back One Out said:
I just think Sicily is clearly one of the gun defenders in the AFL who has played brilliantly over the past couple of months and warrants being included in the AA discussion
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It's not a criticism of Sicily or of his quality. He is a brilliant footballer. I just think there are a few ahead of him at the moment based on what they have done this season.
 
WalshistheGOAT said:
Look I'm as big a fan of Sicily as anyone but I wouldn't have him near the AA team this year. Have there been any other defenders named in peoples teams who have had 4-5 genuinely poor games? Unlikely.
Click to expand...

Just further to my earlier question about which games he was poor in?...even one of the 2 games I have identified as him being poor this season (vs. Geelong)...

Sicily had the 4th highest player rating on the ground (i.e. both teams). He also had 11 intercepts! He also had the most intercept marks on the ground and the equal most contested marks. He also had 8 spoils (2nd most on ground and easily #1 at Hawthorn). He also had 500+ metres gained (3rd most on ground and easily #1 for metres gained per possession). All but 2 of his possessions were kicks and yet he still went at 88% efficiency.

The reason I rated it as poor is he lost 2 1 on 1's to Ollie Henry (admittedly due to dubious free kicks) and was caught holding the ball another time (because we had lost all structure ahead of the ball and he had nowhere to go). He also 'only' had 16 possessions for a guy averaging 26 as a CHB last year. In other words, this was his second worst game of the year and is only really considered 'poor' as Sicily is held to an extremely high standard, especially by Hawthorn supporters. If many other guys playing key defence had 11 intercepts, 5 intercept marks, 8 spoils and 550 metres gained, it would likely be considered a good game.
 
Back One Out said:




Champion Data's mid-season All Australian team read out by Hoyne on SEN radio


Dan Houston….…. Sam Collins…….. Nick Blakey
Max Holmes….. Jeremy McGovern… Bailey Dale
Errol Gulden…..…. Nick Daicos……….. Josh Kelly
Chad Warner…. Aaron Naughton…. Harry Sheezel
Tyson Stengle… Jake Waterman.… Izak Rankine

Max Gawn….. Isaac Heeney…. Marcus Bontempelli

Jack Sinclair… Matt Rowell… Caleb Serong… Zach Merrett… Patrick Cripps


Next defender in... James Sicily
Next forward in.... Charlie Curnow
Next midfielder in.. Ed Richards
Next ruckman in... Tom De Koning


Pretty much nothing between Naughton, Waterman and Curnow


Hoyne said that Christian Petracca was easily in the best 18, but they've left him out because he won't play again this year.
Click to expand...

pretty terrible team.
 
To be fair you need to keep a close eye on the Sicily, Stewart, Greene etc... types because they are capable of going on a run that can take them from not considered to in the conversation.

Personally though if I was serious in pushing a case for a hawks defender right now I'd love to see Scrimshaw start getting some recognition, even if it's just a name drop here and there. He has quietly put together a breakout year. Unlikely to be this year but the type of footy he is playing you can see a potential AA in their.
 

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LukeParkerno1 said:
He is borderline, but he can't miss too many more you'd assume. Missed 4 and was poor (or at least average if you want to go with that) against us so that's 5. I'd have him on the bench though as his best has been phenomenal though.
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100% agree. Cant miss any more games. 5-6 makes it too many. Sam Taylor situation last year all over again
 
gandaal said:
You mean the game where we were thrashing you despite missing half our best 22, but then our key defender went down and our entire structure collapsed?
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Most entertaining deflection.

lol. Like a lot of teams you seemed to be well on top …. But then you weren’t… seems according to you the loss of a stopper defender led to a 50+ point loss.
 
Grand Uncle Horace said:
Most entertaining deflection.

lol. Like a lot of teams you seemed to be well on top …. But then you weren’t… seems according to you the loss of a stopper defender led to a 50+ point loss.
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Yeah it was a total coincidence that the game completely changed the minute the best defender in the AFL got subbed out.

Season 3 GIF by Parks and Recreation
 
gandaal said:
Yeah it was a total coincidence that the game completely changed the minute the best defender in the AFL got subbed out.

Season 3 GIF by Parks and Recreation
Click to expand...

No doubt he is a very good stopper. This is important in a defence where few are interested in defending.

As for Walsh, he really needs remedial kicking school. All the Sydney mids have to have mastered kicking, even Rowy.

Walsh would be a borderline selection with us.
 
Grand Uncle Horace said:
No doubt he is a very good stopper. This is important in a defence where few are interested in defending.

As for Walsh, he really needs remedial kicking school. All the Sydney mids have to have mastered kicking, even Rowy.

Walsh would be a borderline selection with us.
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Yeah sure. See you at the MCG. We'll see how you go up against a good team away from your odd shaped home ground.
 
baggersrflaggers said:
100% agree. Cant miss any more games. 5-6 makes it too many. Sam Taylor situation last year all over again
Click to expand...

Yep I mean right now he’s in my side but I have an asterix next to it pending games played.
 
Juddernaut08 said:
pretty terrible team.
Click to expand...
Interesting take that the team produced by the most developed stats team is allegedly terrible. However, the thread is full of random posters mostly cherry picking stats to qualify a player from the team they support or disqualify a player that might bump out their team's player.

I don't watch enough to have any informed idea, but I also doubt the ability of passionate supporters to assess the relativity of anybody.
 

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