List Mgmt. 2024 Trade & List Management Thread - Part II

[archereleven]

What is our system?

Do we have one?

Our system should be pressure based until we have enough games into our youth. No matter the game style, if pressure is consistently up, you are well and truly in the game.

If Clarko can't demand and produce team wide defensive standards next season, then his days at NM are numbered. He will see out his 5 years, and that will be that.

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[pupstar]

The only thing keeping me holding on is opportunity to access Finals seats and hopefully a GF, plus disposable income

Otherwise I’d have chucked it in Covid

Hang in there Gas you will be needing them seat soon enough. My dad made me a member in the late 70s I will still be one the day i karc it.

 

[perplexed]

Exactly. They win enough loose contested ball, have excellent drive off half back, cut teams up in transition amd have the capacity to mop up loose balls in the forward half. We tried to implement the transition game earlier in the season, didn't have the skills to execute and got reamed on the rebound. We need to get fitter through the middle and develop a more functional and pressure applying forward line

A big difference is we tried to do it with handball, the Hawks kick it.

 

[remfan101]

Just noting that so far every star-studded big-bodied high-draft-pick superstar midfield has been flogged by more balanced, hardworking team units.

No more top 10 private school superstar downhill skiers after this year plssss (appreciate the private school thing is borderline unavoidable but we should try)

 

[Shinboner1]

Yep fingers crossed Goater, Hardeman, Bergman , our first pick this year can get games. That removes four waddlers from our side.

3 players who'd get blown over in a strong breeze? Hate to see it

 

[R00StaR]

A big difference is we tried to do it with handball, the Hawks kick it.

We tried taking it through middle more, Hawks switch and use pace to lead into space and create overlap. If options are there, they'll come back in through the middle. We just dont have guys getting that same separation.

We talk about their smalls, like Geelong but it seems its really about endurance and speed or at least burst to get that separation to create options when they push up the ground. Little dudes just tend to be quicker and more agile. They obviously cause havoc around goal as well but we're talking more about transition here.

 

[archereleven]

We tried taking it through middle more, Hawks switch and use pace to lead into space and create overlap. If options are there, they'll come back in through the middle. We just dont have guys getting that same separation.

We talk about their smalls, like Geelong but it seems its really about endurance and speed or at least burst to get that separation to create options when they push up the ground. Little dudes just tend to be quicker and more agile. They obviously cause havoc around goal as well but we're talking more about transition here.

It's more work rate than anything...

The most over blown misconception on this board is the need for fast runners lol
Footy iq, disposal skills, and work rate trump everything.

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[buttox]

You don’t really believe this? You do know that the media reports what clubs tell them is likely, not the other way around?

All the media reported Jacob Edwards was going pick 1 from a long way out.
A 18 year old deemed the previous year not to be in the top 80ish of the draft.
We are either talking to every media person which is crap to begin with or we just took who they told us too.
Msd picks should never be last year's rejects. It should always be a more mature guy playing state league footy and playing well enough that if they were in our reserves we would be playing them.
If we had taken chlosey or mannagh last year or age profile would not be so shot. Teakle is not a great of the game but he improved us this year more than Edwards ever did and he was on our list multiple years.
The idea is to build a competitive list. Not too take 100s of 18 year olds who stand a very small chance of making it.
Has one of these reject 18 year old ever worked for any club? I'm sure they have but the hit rate must be like 5%
The way I look at it msd is great for giving a bloke a 6 month contract and cycling through the best players from state leagues and seeing if they cut the mustard. You get an answer quickly and can move on if they fail. You don't take guys who need multiple years development to see if they might be afl standard.
You take the guys who are ready to go in a position of need. It's pick 80 in the draft.

 

[R00StaR]

It's more work rate than anything...

The most over blown misconception on this board is the need for fast runners lol
Footy iq, disposal skills, and work rate trump everything.

On SM-G991B using BigFooty.com mobile app

I dont think so. Doesn't matter how hard you work, without the speed or at least burst its much harder to get that separation. We've just seen both Geelong and the Hawks blow their oppo apart with speed. Yes of course work rate matters, thats a given no team will be any good without. At AFL standard thats expected.

Its not like they both beat just any old teams either, Port and Dogs were both seen as form sides leading in and certainly not slow.

 

[Moti]

It's more work rate than anything...

The most over blown misconception on this board is the need for fast runners lol
Footy iq, disposal skills, and work rate trump everything.

On SM-G991B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Obviously I disagree. But the problem with stating a requirement doesn't mean that it is the only requirement. As we have seen with Stephenson and Stephens, speed with out hardness limits you. Skills without athletic ability limits you. Footy IQ without strength can limit you.

Seeing the Hawks live yesterday, they outworked their opponents into space. They had speed to break open the field and agility to work in tight spaces. Then they used high footy IQ to pick the right targets then execute.

We have some high IQ footballers that lack the athleticism, which limits them. And yes, Sheez is one of these. Like Cunners before him, add more speed and you have an infinitely better player.

Daicos v Sheezel, the only real difference is the speed of Daicos and that makes him the more dangerous player.

 

[BlueandWhiteinmyBlood]

I was super impressed by Dear last night. I think it was around the time of his rising star nom I heard Sam Mitchell speak in regards to drafting Dear. Paraphrasing but it was something along the lines of that drafting Dear and how quickly he had come on has changed Mitchell’s philosophy re drafting players. Instead of now leaning towards the most talented and skillful and who looks best on paper re all the fitness testing he is going to lean more closely to players who may not look the best on paper but have an attitude that resembles being super competitive and hates to lose. He feels those traits you just can’t learn and develop whilst he feels he can coach and train the other stuff in to a player. He didn’t think Dear could make it on talent but his attitude and determination to his training and game day has proven him wrong. I honestly think we can take a bit of that into who we let walk through the doors of Arden St here on in, because having a 19 year old twig do what he did last night was unbelievable. Nothing stopping Maley doing the same thing.

 

[archereleven]

I dont think so. Doesn't matter how hard you work, without the speed or at least burst its much harder to get that separation. We've just seen both Geelong and the Hawks blow their oppo apart with speed. Yes of course work rate matters, thats a given no team will be any good without. At AFL standard thats expected.

Its not like they both beat just any old teams either, Port and Dogs were both seen as form sides leading in and certainly not slow.

Yes, it does matter how hard you work, especially without ball in hand. Pressure is what dictates the speed of the game, footy iq dictates whether your opponent gets goal side, cheats fwd, blocks to release, etc, and skills dictate possession.

Harry isn't quick at all, but he has all 3 of the above in spades. We are so slow compared to these other teams, yet when our pressure was elite, we had Collingwood by the balls to the tune of 54 points and were right in the contest of the other games where defensive application was top shelf.

Clarko needs to enforce team defence and consistency. If he doesn't, he will be gone after his contract is up.

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[kool kangas]

Do we have one?

Our system should be pressure based until we have enough games into our youth. No matter the game style, if pressure is consistently up, you are well and truly in the game.

If Clarko can't demand and produce team wide defensive standards next season, then his days at NM are numbered. He will see out his 5 years, and that will be that.

On SM-G991B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Shhhh we want to keep it a secret so no one not even us can work it out....

 

[archereleven]

Obviously I disagree. But the problem with stating a requirement doesn't mean that it is the only requirement. As we have seen with Stephenson and Stephens, speed with out hardness limits you. Skills without athletic ability limits you. Footy IQ without strength can limit you.

Seeing the Hawks live yesterday, they outworked their opponents into space. They had speed to break open the field and agility to work in tight spaces. Then they used high footy IQ to pick the right targets then execute.

We have some high IQ footballers that lack the athleticism, which limits them. And yes, Sheez is one of these. Like Cunners before him, add more speed and you have an infinitely better player.

Daicos v Sheezel, the only real difference is the speed of Daicos and that makes him the more dangerous player.

Disagree all you like, mate, but defensive pressure allows everything else you just typed, not speed. It's a furphy.

Daicos and Sheezel are different players. One is not more dangerous than the other imo... Put Daicos in our midfield and see how he goes when he has to get his own ball consistently.


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[pupstar]

It's more work rate than anything...

The most over blown misconception on this board is the need for fast runners lol
Footy iq, disposal skills, and work rate trump everything.

On SM-G991B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Thats a great post Everybody gets sucked into pace but without everything you just said pace is useless.

 

[DrZaius]

We should be making comparisons with the Hawks as much as with Sydney, GWS or Brisbane for the good that will do us. Apart from a couple of years where they were better than us but towards the bottom of the ladder, there is no comparison. We are worlds apart.

So who do we compare ourselves with then? If the answer is nobody then what are we even in this ****ing league for?

I don't want to watch Richmond and West Coast shoot past us in 2 years time while we still hear the same old "well we can't compare our rebuild to theirs for x,y,z reason"

 

[archereleven]

So who do we compare ourselves with then? If the answer is nobody then what are we even in this ****ing league for?

I don't want to watch Richmond and West Coast shoot past us in 2 years time while we still hear the same old "well we can't compare our rebuild to theirs for x,y,z reason"

Their senior players alone almost guarantee they will shoot past us at some point... We will only see our potential once Harry et al reach 100+ games

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[JGreezy]

We had quarters and halves where we looked great. Pressure off the charts, spreading well, good ball movement.

They're capable of playing that way. The ability is there.

The issue this year was mental. A complete lack of leadership. A losing mentality. No mental toughness or resilience.

Situations would occur and the goal avalanche against us for the next 10-15 minutes straight would be so predictable.

Even the last two games without Sheezel, it just felt like that was enough of an excuse to melt like butter, so we did.

 

[shimaburnsgrieg]

Experience has a lot to do with the way the Hawks open up space and slice through teams.


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So does skill, training, coaching, mindset, game plan and playing regular games at the G. In fact experience - in terms of games player/age - has very little to do with it.

 

[shinboner magic]

Put Sicily , scrimshaw , Amon ,Hardwick into our defence and you’ll see the difference they would make
Youth can only do so much when there isn’t a senior core performing

 

[Merlin007]

I was super impressed by Dear last night. I think it was around the time of his rising star nom I heard Sam Mitchell speak in regards to drafting Dear. Paraphrasing but it was something along the lines of that drafting Dear and how quickly he had come on has changed Mitchell’s philosophy re drafting players. Instead of now leaning towards the most talented and skillful and who looks best on paper re all the fitness testing he is going to lean more closely to players who may not look the best on paper but have an attitude that resembles being super competitive and hates to lose. He feels those traits you just can’t learn and develop whilst he feels he can coach and train the other stuff in to a player. He didn’t think Dear could make it on talent but his attitude and determination to his training and game day has proven him wrong. I honestly think we can take a bit of that into who we let walk through the doors of Arden St here on in, because having a 19 year old twig do what he did last night was unbelievable. Nothing stopping Maley doing the same thing.

Kinnear Beatson at swans says much the same thing - he looks for competitiveness because he assumes anyone in the draft pool has talent (to some degree)

 

[RossHenshaw]

Do we have one?

Our system should be pressure based until we have enough games into our youth. No matter the game style, if pressure is consistently up, you are well and truly in the game.

If Clarko can't demand and produce team wide defensive standards next season, then his days at NM are numbered. He will see out his 5 years, and that will be that.

On SM-G991B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Shhh shhh please no no ?!…
You will offend the “ I Clarko “
people here with those comments?!

 

[BlueandWhiteinmyBlood]

Kinnear Beatson at swans says much the same thing - he looks for competitiveness because he assumes anyone in the draft pool has talent (to some degree)

100% - it has to be a non negotiable for us, it’s the fabric of our bloody footy club - the players representing it should now have it in their dna.

 

[Zondor]

the one that's 30 years more advanced than your shithole

It seems to me that you’re a little upset there Radical. Time to mellow and Chase that Dragon. :stern look

 

[Moti]

So does skill, training, coaching, mindset, game plan and playing regular games at the G. In fact experience - in terms of games player/age - has very little to do with it.

That was my point


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