List Mgmt. 2024 Trade & List Management Thread

[krakouers]

Yep, I think you're right, and I'm saying maybe we should keep our mind open to the likelihood he gets traded, even though the process could be pretty novel and the outcome isn't going to be fantastic.

He's in the AFL's "Retirements, Delistings and Trades" section, but they haven't actually labelled him as "delisted".

Lists can be revised before the MSD? I’d expect it missed the last one and need to wait until then?

 

[Makeshift Park]

Unfortunately, acceptable for us now is TT off the list. I can't see that changing.

I just bought my first house. I think it looks nice.

Lets say the inspector report is wrong, its charming looks were deceiving me, and termites have eaten away at the foundations, the whole thing is a liability, and I've just lost a shitload of cash.

I'd still want as much money back on it as possible, even though the price is diminished.

Same for TT. If he can prove he's capable of maintaining the standards expected of him, and if all the posters out there are right that 17 clubs out there will all want his services, and it stands to reason he wants to play for a contending team (ie not a team in a position to use the PSD threat), I think we could still get something reasonable in return for him.

 

[Lomas]

Lists can be revised before the MSD? I’d expect it missed the last one and need to wait until then?

And it won't give us an extra pick anyway. He's gone, and I firmly believe we won't get anything nor do we want it.

 

[My Left Foote]

Lists can be revised before the MSD? I’d expect it missed the last one and need to wait until then?

It’s a unique situation the AFL love a loop hole with their rules. Let’s say for argument’s sake, the AFL go to the other clubs and say North want to delist Tarryn so they can have a pick at the MSD which means if Tarryn completes his behavioural obligations he can nominate for draft / pre-season draft. Clubs are always looking out for their best interests if they didn’t have to trade for him you can bet they’d be up for it.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Lists can be revised before the MSD? I’d expect it missed the last one and need to wait until then?

Brayshaw just retired. That's a free list spot. I just don't think Melbourne can use it in between the SSP and the MSD.

 

[Lomas]

I just bought my first house. I think it looks nice.

Lets say the inspector report is wrong, its charming looks were deceiving me, and termites have eaten away at the foundations, the whole thing is a liability, and I've just lost a shitload of cash.

I'd still want as much money back on it as possible, even though the price is diminished.

Same for TT. If he can prove he's capable of maintaining the standards expected of him, and if all the posters out there are right that 17 clubs out there will all want his services, and it stands to reason he wants to play for a contending team (ie not a team in a position to use the PSD threat), I think we could still get something reasonable in return for him.

I once owned a car that I paid a fair bit for, cost me a fortune in attempted repairs and in the end I let it go for nothing because I was done. Didn't want to compromise myself by squeezing anything out of it. Good luck to the next person who owned it, but it was time to walk away and have a clear conscience.
Now, TT is a human being and not a material possession. We've done our best, and I hope we try to help him if there is any ongoing contact, but he is not an asset to find value in now.

 

[krakouers]

Brayshaw just retired. That's a free list spot. I just don't think Melbourne can use it in between the SSP and the MSD.

It’s a unique situation the AFL love a loop hole with their rules. Let’s say for argument’s sake, the AFL go to the other clubs and say North want to delist Tarryn so they can have a pick at the MSD which means if Tarryn completes his behavioural obligations he can nominate for draft / pre-season draft. Clubs are always looking out for their best interests if they didn’t have to trade for him you can bet they’d be up for it.

And it won't give us an extra pick anyway. He's gone, and I firmly believe we won't get anything nor do we want it.

Would imagine he stays our player until (let’s say May) as being on our books, we could delist him before the MSD or we can wait until the end of the year when he’s out of contract anyway, earliest just would be for freeing up a spot on the MSD (if we wanted to go that way)

 

[Lomas]

Would imagine he stays our player until (let’s say May) as being on our books, we could delist him before the MSD or we can wait until the end of the year when he’s out of contract anyway, earliest just would be for freeing up a spot on the MSD (if we wanted to go that way)

I don't believe you get list spots for delistings past a certain date.

 

[krakouers]

I once owned a car that I paid a fair bit for, cost me a fortune in attempted repairs and in the end I let it go for nothing because I was done. Didn't want to compromise myself by squeezing anything out of it. Good luck to the next person who owned it, but it was time to walk away and have a clear conscience.
Now, TT is a human being and not a material possession. We've done our best, and I hope we try to help him if there is any ongoing contact, but he is not an asset to find value in now.

Some interesting metaphors in this

I just bought my first house. I think it looks nice.

Lets say the inspector report is wrong, its charming looks were deceiving me, and termites have eaten away at the foundations, the whole thing is a liability, and I've just lost a shitload of cash.

I'd still want as much money back on it as possible, even though the price is diminished.

Same for TT. If he can prove he's capable of maintaining the standards expected of him, and if all the posters out there are right that 17 clubs out there will all want his services, and it stands to reason he wants to play for a contending team (ie not a team in a position to use the PSD threat), I think we could still get something reasonable in return for him.

The thing is, all teams have that building report with all the faults, we hope 17 clubs are interested but would expect that number is only one or two, for the right price they would get him

 

[Makeshift Park]

I once owned a car that I paid a fair bit for, cost me a fortune in attempted repairs and in the end I let it go for nothing because I was done. Didn't want to compromise myself by squeezing anything out of it. Good luck to the next person who owned it, but it was time to walk away and have a clear conscience.
Now, TT is a human being and not a material possession. We've done our best, and I hope we try to help him if there is any ongoing contact, but he is not an asset to find value in now.

Interesting take. I've posted a bit in the past about how the most important thing for me is that TT finds a way to learn a bit about himself through this process and finds a desire to better himself too. But I still like to think that if I was in Todd, Jenn or Sonja's shoes, I'd be able to do everything possible to facilitate that process while also treating the very expensive contract he is on as something we'd like a decent return on.

 

[krakouers]

I don't believe you get list spots for delistings past a certain date.

Yeah don’t know what the rule is exactly, there would be something there we could argue but that’s the only way he could leave the list before the end of the year you would expect

Edit: further to that Lomas he wouldn’t be eligible to be selected next year for the MSD:

A Delisted Player
Please note: A Player delisted by a Club cannot be reselected in the NAB AFL Mid-Season Rookie Draft by the same Club in the period immediately following their delisting unless they nominated for the most recent Draft.

A Retired Player and/or a Player who has delisted himself and has not been on an AFL List for one year or more. For example, a player who retired in 2021 is not able to be selected in the 2022 NAB AFL Mid-Season Rookie Draft.

2022 NAB AFL Mid-Season Rookie Draft rules and eligibility

 

[Lomas]

Yeah don’t know what the rule is exactly, there would be something there we could argue but that’s the only way he could leave the list before the end of the year you would expect

I'd imagine it is there for contracted players to protect them from being dumped in time for shiny new toys at mid season draft. Injury retirement, or just retirement, gives them some agency.

 

[krakouers]

I'd imagine it is there for contracted players to protect them from being dumped in time for shiny new toys at mid season draft. Injury retirement, or just retirement, gives them some agency.

TBF though, not sure a player has been delisted this early on?

 

[Lomas]

TBF though, not sure a player has been delisted this early on?

Because the agreements run from certain dates and no player would agree without framing it as 'retirement'. He probably isn't technically 'delisted' in the sense we usually think of it.

 

[Makeshift Park]

TBF though, not sure a player has been delisted this early on?

How early do you want? McAsey was delisted in the second week of January.

McAsey steps away from AFL

The 21-year-old will be placed on Adelaide's inactive list for the upcoming season

www.afc.com.au

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Would you be comfortable with a straight swap, Taylor for our first (let's say in range of 2-5) ?

Wouldn’t even hesitate. I’d expect though, it would take this years and next years first in order to get him.

Who are the lockdown smalls that we could target if we didn’t produce our own?

Blake Hardwick Hawks have shifted him forward this year. Who knows why?

Ben Paton looks to be well down the pecking order at St.Kilda but is a handy lock down type.

Noah Answerth depth only at the Lions.

Sean Lemmens is an unrestricted free agent for GC he has shown some form as a lockdown half back but more suited to being a distributor.

Harry Perryman from GWS has shown plenty as a tagger, as more than enough tools to be a lockdown back pocket too. Free agent this year too.

Probably a few others out there too who would be gettable.

 

[krakouers]

Lomas

https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2023/03/01/b34247f1-8c79-46ae-b564-586716a46bfc/Amended-AFL-Rules-effective-28-February-2023.pdf

 

[krakouers]

How early do you want? McAsey was delisted in the second week of January.

McAsey steps away from AFL

The 21-year-old will be placed on Adelaide's inactive list for the upcoming season

www.afc.com.au

More sounds like retirement

 

[krakouers]

Because the agreements run from certain dates and no player would agree without framing it as 'retirement'. He probably isn't technically 'delisted' in the sense we usually think of it.

Figure a delisting is a club imposed thing, retirement is where the player has had enough and comes to the club
Bennell or McCarthy come to mind for shenanigans early enough but stayed on the list for the year
All good, it’s certainly an interesting thought process

 

[Makeshift Park]

More sounds like retirement

Yeah fair enough.

I guess I thought of retirement as a subcategory of delisting, which probably isn't technically correct.

It would be interesting if the General Counsel objected to us delisting him now and why.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Thomas hasn’t been able to keep his nose clean for more than 3 months at a time over the past 18 months. I’m betting he’ll **** up again within the next 6 months.

 

[zoomba23]

I'd punt the whole list management department if they were passing on guys like Taylor just because they're more likely to say no than yes. It's a loser mentality. We wouldn't have Logue if we thought like that. He's not as good as Taylor but we were the worst team of the seven that chased him and got his signature.

There's an obligatory CZ-shaped asterisk with Logue though.

Of course there's nothing to be lost from trying apart from a bit of warchest pride. But people on this forum equate trying with chances of success. We aren't an attractive option and a lot on here refuse to acknowledge that

 

[Lomas]

Thomas hasn’t been able to keep his nose clean for more than 3 months at a time over the past 18 months. I’m betting he’ll * up again within the next 6 months.

I hope not, and I’m not assuming you do either. But ultimately your feeling is why we have taken the steps we have and won’t be looking for any trade ‘win’.

 

[The Dingrel]

Some interesting metaphors in this


The thing is, all teams have that building report with all the faults, we hope 17 clubs are interested but would expect that number is only one or two, for the right price they would get him

I once inspected a house in Sydney, was a half finished monstrosity with harbor views that my bank employer at the time had re-possessed and selling....very cheap. Went in and inspected and couldn't figure out what was wrong with it, until I decided to walk down the staircase and noticed 1/ my head was very close to hitting the second story (I'm less than 6ft tall) and 2/ that it was sloping. No idea who the builder was but would have been about a $3m build at the time, clearly ZERO due dilligence was done on selecting the builder.

And that's my point here. The way footy and the whole of society is going, including the whole Hawthorn botched investigation, is going to increasingly drive clubs to dig deeper and deeper into players backgrounds, and look for safe options in favor of squeaky clean private school boys. I really think its going to be harder and harder for kids from lets say challenging backgrounds to get onto an afl list as a path to a better life.

 

[Lomas]

I once inspected a house in Sydney, was a half finished monstrosity with harbor views that my bank employer at the time had re-possessed and selling....very cheap. Went in and inspected and couldn't figure out what was wrong with it, until I decided to walk down the staircase and noticed 1/ my head was very close to hitting the second story (I'm less than 6ft tall) and 2/ that it was sloping. No idea who the builder was but would have been about a $3m build at the time, clearly ZERO due dilligence was done on selecting the builder.

And that's my point here. The way footy and the whole of society is going, including the whole Hawthorn botched investigation, is going to increasingly drive clubs to dig deeper and deeper into players backgrounds, and look for safe options in favor of squeaky clean private school boys. I really think its going to be harder and harder for kids from lets say challenging backgrounds to get onto an afl list as a path to a better life.

We have been culprits of it with our draft selections of ‘good characters’ who happen to be private school captains. In TT’s case, however, we have run the course in the relationship and shouldn’t be looking for anything back.