List Mgmt. 2024 Trade & List Management Thread

[Del191229]

The irony of giving up a top two pick for a key defender....we just gave up a key defender for a top three pick....

The idea is we'd get a good key defender though.

 

[Mr north man]

Jack McCrae and Caleb Daniel look to be on their way out at the dogs, we could do allot worse…

Are they both 6ft5inch mobile strong know how to read the play and defence

 

[lockheed]

We lose the majority of 50/50 contests - we don’t want it enough.

In the Pagan days, he would either drop the players who show insufficient intent, or have them box each other.

Every week, if need be.

 

[Ball Dont Lie]

I have watched 5 games live this weekend being in Adelaide. Our most glaring issue is leadership. Every other team has at least 4-5 guys on field giving directions, being vocal, setting up the structure. 4-5 guys who you know are dependable. Have been there. Have set standards. The good teams (Cats, Port, Dees, lions) had like 8-10. The kids in these systems thrive. Our kids are out there with zero leadership. Larkey and Bull are busy trying to get a kick. They are not focused on a system. Jy and LDU are fighting form and a tag respectively. Sleevo, Stephens, Tucker and Fisher just aren’t leaders either via actions or smarts. Corr and Lmac lol. We are 23 headless chickens running around. They might be talented but in game they get lost very quickly to the better systems.

 

[shinboner magic]

I have watched 5 games live this weekend being in Adelaide. Our most glaring issue is leadership. Every other team has at least 4-5 guys on field giving directions, being vocal, setting up the structure. 4-5 guys who you know are dependable. Have been there. Have set standards. The good teams (Cats, Port, Dees, lions) had like 8-10. The kids in these systems thrive. Our kids are out there with zero leadership. Larkey and Bull are busy trying to get a kick. They are not focused on a system. Jy and LDU are fighting form and a tag respectively. Sleevo, Stephens, Tucker and Fisher just aren’t leaders either via actions or smarts. Corr and Lmac lol. We are 23 headless chickens running around. They might be talented but in game they get lost very quickly to the better systems.

Missing ziebs big time in this facet of the game.
Was pretty cooked at times in the last couple of years but he was like a coach out there.

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

Missing ziebs big time in this facet of the game.
Was pretty cooked at times in the last couple of years but he was like a coach out there.

He will make a great coach in the coming years.

 

[Masked Avenger]

I have watched 5 games live this weekend being in Adelaide. Our most glaring issue is leadership. Every other team has at least 4-5 guys on field giving directions, being vocal, setting up the structure. 4-5 guys who you know are dependable. Have been there. Have set standards. The good teams (Cats, Port, Dees, lions) had like 8-10. The kids in these systems thrive. Our kids are out there with zero leadership. Larkey and Bull are busy trying to get a kick. They are not focused on a system. Jy and LDU are fighting form and a tag respectively. Sleevo, Stephens, Tucker and Fisher just aren’t leaders either via actions or smarts. Corr and Lmac lol. We are 23 headless chickens running around. They might be talented but in game they get lost very quickly to the better systems.

Spot on.

There's another aspect - your leaders also need to impact on the field through their talent/skill.

It's one of the main things that demoralises oppositions when your leaders are your better players and are controlling games.

It's one of my key gripes with the Club. Since Carey and other than Harvey, how many of our captains could really perform at that top level?

No wonder we're all over Wardlaw and Sheezel. Early days but I sense that McKercher's in that category too.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

You would have watched a bit of Will Phillips as a junior?

On the footage I've seen, he looked pretty manic as a kid.

I appreciate his physical attributes haven't translated at the highest level, but do you think he is as manic in games now as he was as a kid?

Watched heaps of his juniors and I thought he was going to have the same (if not better) trajectory than his former teammate Matt Rowell.

Personally I think it’s all in his head, a combination of low confidence and being over coached in his early stages at the club. He seems so flat footed around stoppages and indecisive as to whether to go hard at the contest or not. He wants to win the footy but wants to stick to structures which goes away from his natural ball hunting mindset.

The confidence thing comes from his fitness I think. You don’t just lose ball winning ability overnight.

 

[R00StaR]

View attachment 1952426

This would be stupid, Logue has been fine, Chom looks the goods and Will Dawson very promising. K. Dawson has been solid then we have Nyuon who needs work but shows promise. Then of course Corr, who will get better. As i said i was surprised he was brought back in so quick, he needs a solid block of games behind him before hes AFL ready.
Smillie is exactly what our list needs, a big bodied mid who has forward craft. Besides, Tassie is coming who knows what players we might lose.
Edit: I forgot Pink, h'll get better as his confidence grows.

 

[Merlin007]

Watched heaps of his juniors and I thought he was going to have the same (if not better) trajectory than his former teammate Matt Rowell.

Personally I think it’s all in his head, a combination of low confidence and being over coached in his early stages at the club. He seems so flat footed around stoppages and indecisive as to whether to go hard at the contest or not. He wants to win the footy but wants to stick to structures which goes away from his natural ball hunting mindset.

The confidence thing comes from his fitness I think. You don’t just lose ball winning ability overnight.

This was definitely the case in the last VFL game against Carlton - his job seemed to be to hold the circle around the contest.

 

[R00StaR]

Ultimately he has unwittingly thrown up the Duursma vs McKay question?
Who here would rather have McKay on the books for 1 million plus a year for the next six?

There’s a lot of toys going out of the cot after playing a bunch of top four sides.

Is that even a question after seeing Choms second half?
On McKay, he made sure we were well compensated, he did right by us and set himself up. Win/Win. If you're going to do it he did the best possible way.

 

[R00StaR]

You would have watched a bit of Will Phillips as a junior?

On the footage I've seen, he looked pretty manic as a kid.

I appreciate his physical attributes haven't translated at the highest level, but do you think he is as manic in games now as he was as a kid?

I wonder how much Glandular fever has effected him, the effects and linger quite a while.

 

[Flawed Genius]

Bring me Mac Andrew

Future defence

Andrew - WDawson - Archer
Sheezel - Comben - Goater

 

[Passmore]

Bring me Mac Andrew

Future defence

Andrew - WDawson - Archer
Sheezel - Comben - Goater

Griffin Logue does not like this one bit. Riley Hardeman is a bit miffed as well.

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[Flawed Genius]

Griffin Logue does not like this one bit. Riley Hardeman is a bit miffed as well.

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Ones gotta retire at some point and the other should probably replace Arch fair enough.

 

[Passmore]

Ones gotta retire at some point and the other should probably replace Arch fair enough.

Poor Griff only just about to turn 26....

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[Flawed Genius]

Poor Griff only just about to turn 26....

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Nah f*** him, over the hill, Father Time comes for us all etc

 

[Mcarcherey]

I’ve read it, it’s a fantastic article.

But…hand on heart do you actually believe that LDU, Stephenson, Stephens, Tucker, Fisher, McDonald, Corr, Zurhaar ect are doing absolutely everything in their power to win every 50-50, to do everything possible to win?

If I had the time I could show you hundreds of “efforts” that are just not up to it.

Regardless of whether they are being reactive (like Ricks article suggested) the blokes above are not doing everything in their power to compete The intensity, intent and the physicality just isn’t there.

You can be losing and still show all of those things. The problem for us is that for a long long time those things haven’t been up to scratch. it shouldn’t up to Wardlaw, Sheezel and Comben to set the standards when it comes to intensity and repeat efforts.

Feel free to “educate” me though how all our players are giving 100% effort…

No offense, but I read these kinds of comments and I think "footy nuffie". No analytics, just vague terms like "effort" and "intensity" that can't be measured.

Unless players are insanely talented, to get noticed among the millions of kids to be drafted you have to be a competitive beast, and that's since the age of 12 to qualify to be in the right teams filled with other guns your age and you have to be the best of that. So before they're drafted they've endured at least 5 years of competing at their highest "intensity".



On Pixel 6 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[big_e]

No more AFL fringe players please. Bring in kids, overagers, reserves players from the King Island league, anyone but burnt out AFL players who we give 5 years based on "potential" and former draft position.

If any guns are dumb enough to take the money and join us. Great. If there's a Hugh Greenwood or Liam Shiels who have glowing reputations for the culture and standards they bring to their club sure, we'll need more like that. But no more Fishers, Tuckers, Stephenses, Stephensons, Corrs etc that'll cruise on big money until we delist them in the 2040s.

Listen to Charlie Comben's postgame. He cares. Sheezel cares. Wardlaw cares. McKercher cares. Josh Goater ( ) cares. Big X cares. There is a strong delineation between this group of drafted players in a similar age bracket and the mercenary role players we've brought in to put around them. I don't care what your 2k is, if you hold width or play key defence. If you don't actually want to help this club succeed through shedding blood, sweat and tears please kindly stay away.

I'm not usually one to take a victory lap but I said something very similar in August last year in a discussion about one of the people you mention. And I got slaughtered for it.

Good to see it finally sinking in.

 

[William Caresser]

In the Pagan days, he would either drop the players who show insufficient intent, or have them box each other.

Every week, if need be.

Spot on. Unfortunately guys like Stephenson, Tucker and Stephens were all below average for contested possession before they got to the club. They've just continued to do what they've always done. Problem is we can't afford to have senior players who can't win contested ball on such a young list. Yes we need outside run but we also need competitors.

Structures and systems don't mean a thing when you get belted each week in contested ball.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

No offense, but I read these kinds of comments and I think "footy nuffie". No analytics, just vague terms like "effort" and "intensity" that can't be measured.

Unless players are insanely talented, to get noticed among the millions of kids to be drafted you have to be a competitive beast, and that's since the age of 12 to qualify to be in the right teams filled with other guns your age and you have to be the best of that. So before they're drafted they've endured at least 5 years of competing at their highest "intensity".



On Pixel 6 using BigFooty.com mobile app

None taken.

The “vague” things that I’ve mentioned are intangibles but realistically you can measure them if you have the time to deep dive into; contested possessions, pressure acts, tackling, 1%er’s, repeat sprint intensity, and avg speed in defence. Other than LDU, all of the players I mentioned are below avg or poor at all of the above, which suggests their intent, desire, effort, physicality ect isn’t at an acceptable level, and the eye test supports all of what I’m saying. I’m sure plenty would agree with me too.

That last paragraph is just plain garbage. Going back 15 years ago I was on a TAC cup list, so I have plenty of exposure at that level.

There are plenty of kids that make it onto NAB league level lists and then AFL lists without having competitive mindsets. Some kids are naturally skilled and get drafted because they can find and kick a footy, some kids get drafted because they are freak athletes, some kids get drafted because they might have one or two traits (like height) that might project into becoming an AFL player. More outside players for example Polec, Stephens & Stephenson stood out at junior level because of freakish athletic traits like running capacity, but get found out at AFL level because they lack many of the other things I mentioned.

Have a listen to Dan Gorringe about his playing days…drafted because he was a good athlete with stacks of upside, he got by on his talent alone and even he admits he never had the fire to get the absolute best out of himself. There are countless examples of players like that, that get drafted every single year.

 

[tazaa]

Go out and target Caminiti from the Saints.
Hes behind King, Membrey, Owens, Sharman, Phillipou.
He’d immediately provide us with another marking option and would come cheap.

 

[Harris 10]

Go out and target Caminiti from the Saints.
Hes behind King, Membrey, Owens, Sharman, Phillipou.
He’d immediately provide us with another marking option and would come cheap.

If we can’t get an established AFL forward then I’d prefer we just go to the draft and continue to develop Maley and Sellars.

 

[tazaa]

If we can’t get an established AFL forward then I’d prefer we just go to the draft and continue to develop Maley and Sellars.

Considering we went with CCJ at centre half forward Id take anyone who can take a mark at the minute

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

I have one from slightly left of field, but find out the contract offers for Liam Baker

3

Liam Baker

Age

26

Ht

173cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.7

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

7.9

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

2.6

4star

MG

222.2

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

7.9

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

191.9

3star

D

14.4

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

8.2

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

1.8

4star

MG

224.2

4star

, add 25% and offer him the captaincy.

At least until our leaders that show consist leadership get out of teenage-hood, we need to bring in leadership.

Run with the following leadership group:

Baker (c)
Sheezel (vc)
Larkey
Logue
Scott
Xerri