List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[Joffaboy]

That's like saying an indigenous person was discriminated against because a white won the lottery.
Its dumb.

You are being stupid.

FMD another one that is clueless.

I will type slowly for you to understand, if the indigenous and the non indigenous had the exact same playing field for the lottery fine, but the AFL draft is not supposed to be a game of chance like the lottery.

Players are discriminated against because of where they live.
In the exact case that discrimination directly affected an indigenous kid and did not affect 4 non indigenous kids.

If you can't understand simple facts, which most of your posts seems to suggest, perhaps don't comment on something that will make you look foolish. With people like you it is better to remain silent and let people think you are foolish, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

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[SaintsSeptember]

FMD another one that is clueless.

I will type slowly for you to understand, if the indigenous and the non indigenous had the exact same playing field for the lottery fine, but the AFL draft is not supposed to be a game of chance like the lottery.

Players are discriminated against because of where they live.
In the exact case that discrimination directly affected an indigenous kid and did not affect 4 non indigenous kids.

If you can't understand simple facts, which most of your posts seems to suggest, perhaps don't comment on something that will make you look foolish. With people like you it is better to remain silent and let people think you are foolish, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

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You don't need to type slowly you are an idiot.

Its not descrimination.
You are the only one who thinks it is.
Because you are stupid.

Jesus , kids in Alice springs are being discriminated against because they can't go surfing.
Its not that i don't understand what you are saying, its that what you are saying is moronic.

 

[austinnn]

He had injuries and gets this year excused but if he's not able to perform he should be under immense pressure. So should the entire board. They haven't been able to stick to a path in 13 years and we seem to be starting to wander off on tangents again.

After next year he will have had the same tenure as Rattan and at that point if he's not on track he should be moved on. We can't afford another rebuild and I don't think we need one.

I was one who wanted Lyon back and think he's still getting stuff right but he's not someone that should be left with zero checks and balances. His game style was absolutely putrid for most of the year and in an entertainment industry that's problematic.

He's got a much better list than anything Richo ever had and it's better than what Ratts had available but hasn't been able to move us forward.

He had injuries and gets this year excused but if he's not able to perform he should be under immense pressure. So should the entire board. They haven't been able to stick to a path in 13 years and we seem to be starting to wander off on tangents again.

After next year he will have had the same tenure as Rattan and at that point if he's not on track he should be moved on. We can't afford another rebuild and I don't think we need one.

I was one who wanted Lyon back and think he's still getting stuff right but he's not someone that should be left with zero checks and balances. His game style was absolutely putrid for most of the year and in an entertainment industry that's problematic.

He's got a much better list than anything Richo ever had and it's better than what Ratts had available but hasn't been able to move us forward.

I think he is moving us forward. I'm surprised you don't think he is. I'm not sure what you and other dissatisfied Saints fans were expecting in year 2 - barring some unicorn-strewn golden path to the top 4.

I think we should move him on if he's not on track, but he should be persevered with if he's on track and just behind schedule.

Crucially, the only ones that know if he's on track are the board and president, we fans certainly do not, and it really isn't for us to say.

What we want is clear, if RTB and Co have plotted their course to deliver that and determined that there will be blood, sweat and tears shed, then we have to either be ready for that or find a different coach.

I don't buy this concept that his methods don't translate to today's game or the modern player. Things haven't changed that much. They are smart operators. I think they've made mistakes and I back them to correct them, but I reckon once the season starts, they are mostly set and the bigger corrections will have to wait for the off season - or perhaps the "Rack Off!" season, for the old Neighbours fans from the eighties out there. In other words, I'm guessing it won't just be playing staff that will be churned.

Well anyway, I doubt we will look this bad next year but as you say, pressure will come if we will. I just hope that pressure is based on something more solid than frustration that we're not Sydney, Hawthorn, or Carlton.

 

[Joffaboy]

tbf Joff, that's not the way it came across

How did it come across? I have mentioned this NGA inequity from the moment we got Collard last October.
I never once said all indigenous kids should stay home.
I made the point that the unfair rules for the rugby state AFL booster clubs NGA's had the unintended consequence of non indigenous kids getting discrimatory treatment over an indigenous kid.

I used Collard because he came to St.Kilda. There may be other NGA's from southern states that had to move and were discriminated against as well.

It is a bad look for the AFL to discriminate against an indigenous kid in favour of four non indigenous kids.
NOBODY should get these advantages. The AFL love to look good especially when it comes to first nation people. Well in this case they have dropped the ball.

It is not about favouring indigenous kids, it's about favouring NOBODY.

Anyway because of the support at the club, it looks as though he will extend.

Like NAZ, who wanted to go home but extended, it would say that our culture and support is very good at the club. Auntie Katrina is certainly valued.
Liam Henry was talking about the culture at the club being a safe space for him, that is great to hear.


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[SaintsSeptember]

How did it come across? I have mentioned this NGA inequity from the moment we got Collard last October.
I never once said all indigenous kids should stay home.
I made the point that the unfair rules for the rugby state AFL booster clubs NGA's had the unintended consequence of non indigenous kids getting discrimatory treatment over an indigenous kid.

I used Collard because he came to St.Kilda. There may be other NGA's from southern states that had to move and were discriminated against as well.

It is a bad look for the AFL to discriminate against an indigenous kid in favour of four non indigenous kids.
NOBODY should get these advantages. The AFL love to look good especially when it comes to first nation people. Well in this case they have dropped the ball.

It is not about favouring indigenous kids, it's about favouring NOBODY.

Anyway because of the support at the club, it looks as though he will extend.

Like NAZ, who wanted to go home but extended, it would say that our culture and support is very good at the club. Auntie Katrina is certainly valued.
Liam Henry was talking about the culture at the club being a safe space for him, that is great to hear.


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There are a lot of non-indigenous kids who are in exactly the same boat as Collard. Like the vast majority.

I hate the whole academy crap, but what you are saying about discrimination is just off the shelf.

 

[sammm]

Do I need to? Maybe you want Bailey Smith to be the new Sam Fisher.

Yes, I forgot Bailey Smith

 

[sammm]

been burnt too many times on the promise of an outcome

right now we have a known high performer in battle in a very hard position to fill (our record of drafting and trading CHB has been absolutely appalling for two decades).

meanwhile we are going to say we will get two elite mids. again our drafting of mids hasnt been great. you point to Pou and Wilson but both are very green its not known if they will turn into elite mids. there's potential and promise and they're tracking in the right direction but they're miles off being elite yet.

That's because us supporters have known for more than 10 years that we need mids, mids and more mids, and instead most years we got HBF, etc

 

[sammm]

A write up for todays pods

That seems a silly reason to go. Because you like the assistant coach?

 

[Captain Paddy]

That seems a silly reason to go. Because you like the assistant coach?

drinking buddies

 

[BrutThough]

As much as l hate to distract from this enthralling day's discussion, l find interesting we're being linked to Lobb (insert vomit emoji).
I'd have to assume he'd come as a salary dump but the dogs dont have much to deal with, only 2nd & 3rd round picks.
If Batts goes it could tie us over for a bit and boost our draft position for really not much money.

He's an upgrade on Campbell. We have the salary cap room to afford the contract and using that space for someone who could support Max and Marshall is a decent use of it.

 

[austinnn]

Bloody Ratts. Bet he'd love taking Battle off us, just to **** with us. He's angry because he got fired.

He was shithouse and loose as a goose and deserved the sack, not our fault.

 

[stavro#4]

Geez Lobb…not exactly Ryder..

There is nothing in the tall forward stocks with both king and caminiti injured.

Membrey looks like he will be moved on.

 

[Sunshine Sainter]

Where did I say any of your straw man argument?
I said that an indigenous kid was discriminated against because the Suns and the other rugby state clubs have advantages.
ALL PLAYERS, from academies should have the same advantages, be on the same playing field. If you can't understand in this case Collard was discriminated against because of where he lived, you should not even enter the conversation.

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Patronising to the extreme. Lets disadvantage the disadvantaged, by restricting where they can be drafted. Rather than the alternative of providing great support at their new club, wherever they are drafted.

Hawthorn has shown the way, in showing they know what is best for First Nations people and we all can see how that has turned out.

I would suggest that like everyone on here, I have every right to comment and enter the conversation. As a non-Aboriginal, with many years of experience in both Aboriginal education and sports administration, including over a decade advising various football codes on just this topic, I may just know more about this than you.

Or is it just those who call you out, or disagree with you that you think should not enter the conversation?

 

[Saintbloke]

Bloody Ratts. Bet he'd love taking Battle off us, just to **** with us. He's angry because he got fired.

He was shithouse and loose as a goose and deserved the sack, not our fault.

Not saying he was a great coach, but got us into the finals, so on a par with Lyon who got us into the finals and now has us down the bottom end of the ladder.

 

[Remboy]

There is nothing in the tall forward stocks with both king and caminiti injured.

Membrey looks like he will be moved on.

Not to mention Caminiti (and Keeler for that matter) being tried in defence.

 

[gringo2011]

Fair enough. A high pick for him would have been stupid. A second rounder was ok, especially when we got it back. So sort of like a DFA.

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Except that GWS deal was nothing to do with the Henry deal. Still lucky that GWS wanted Leake so badly. We also used up all our later picks for this season last year. Pretty sure we only have our first and second round picks left.

I think that's why they want to trade out Membrey, Paton, Hayes, Howard etc and let Battle walk. None of the apart from Battle will get much back but they could possibly use them to sell to teams with FS or academy players for points. Or use them in trades for some of the spuds mentioned.

 

[gringo2011]

Agree
13 years shyte needs to be fixed in 2 or Lyon goes??
We are finally facing up to where this list is at - carrying too many plodders …all this trash that “list isn’t too bad” the list is miles off top 4
We are finally playing , developing and building our next core talent group
Hitting the draft
And we are off on a tangent?????
Crazy batshyte talk
Of course you have checks n balances on Lyon but he gets his tenure to do his job
IF we have a poor list, no midfield, can’t score ..he goes and Bassatt too
I suspect we’ll have a very strong core of talent and a team drilled in a game style that stacks up - if Sunday was a teaser I’m in !

You would have been one of the plonkers justifying trading out high picks to top up when we hadn't drafted a core. We have been drafting and should continue drafting. We shouldn't be selling off young best 22 players to go harder into the draft and make ourselves less competitive.

We are finally getting to a point where we could literally have the best of both worlds and potentially challenge while Wilkie, Sincs and Marshall types are still on the list.

Instead we are looking at hacking right back and hoping that in 5 to 8 years we can have more weapons than North and Gold Coast type lists. Even Brisbane keeps getting gifts from the AFL that should make them even better in a few years.

Waiting for some goldilocks list will buy them time but they promised to stay competitive while building the youth. If Lyon has brought in his people and remodelled the list how he wants it he should be able to do what he promised. Should be playing finals next year.

 

[Sully111]

New game plan brought in Sunday

Honestly mate, we've looked like a dogs breakfast for large parts of games this year. If you want to believe that's 100% on the players, and coaches shouldn't be held accountable, knock yourself out.

 

[gringo2011]

I think he is moving us forward. I'm surprised you don't think he is. I'm not sure what you and other dissatisfied Saints fans were expecting in year 2 - barring some unicorn-strewn golden path to the top 4.

I think we should move him on if he's not on track, but he should be persevered with if he's on track and just behind schedule.

Crucially, the only ones that know if he's on track are the board and president, we fans certainly do not, and it really isn't for us to say.

What we want is clear, if RTB and Co have plotted their course to deliver that and determined that there will be blood, sweat and tears shed, then we have to either be ready for that or find a different coach.

I don't buy this concept that his methods don't translate to today's game or the modern player. Things haven't changed that much. They are smart operators. I think they've made mistakes and I back them to correct them, but I reckon once the season starts, they are mostly set and the bigger corrections will have to wait for the off season - or perhaps the "Rack Off!" season, for the old Neighbours fans from the eighties out there. In other words, I'm guessing it won't just be playing staff that will be churned.

Well anyway, I doubt we will look this bad next year but as you say, pressure will come if we will. I just hope that pressure is based on something more solid than frustration that we're not Sydney, Hawthorn, or Carlton.

Players went backwards, game plan looked worse while the list looks better on paper. I've given him this year as an injury write off but he gets held to account just like any coach. The club and coach was suggesting that they were having last year exploring and were bringing in youth while staying competitive.

Toce has given him a much better pool of kids to bring through and he's been given everything a coach could need as far as footy department spend.. If he gets this wrong he blows us up for years. I'm not suggesting he gets sacked regardless of form I'm suggesting he should be held to the exact standards as any other coach.

If we slow build we will hit sides like North and Gold Coast as they are powerhouses. We really need to play finals now while building up the youth through the draft. Once Steele, Wilkie, Marshall, Butler, Howard, Sinclair, Hill, Wood etc all step out in a few years we are going to have to hope that the kids we have now become stars and add a new tier of elite talent to replace what we lose.

If it goes badly we will be trying to do a ground up build as Tasmania takes the bulk of the draft for 3 or 4 years. It would be the best way to spend another 10 years at the bottom of the ladder.

 

[gringo2011]

There is nothing in the tall forward stocks with both king and caminiti injured.

Membrey looks like he will be moved on.

Lobb is appealing to the Saints because he's probably free if we take over his contract which is huge and still got years left. We don't have much left to trade so need to find free hits.

 

[Klaatu]

How do we know who recruited who when you have maybe 5 recruiter Gringo keeps spruiking Toce' how would you know he picked them and selected them.

 

[Klaatu]

Honestly mate, we've looked like a dogs breakfast for large parts of games this year. If you want to believe that's 100% on the players, and coaches shouldn't be held accountable, knock yourself out.

The game plan going into the forward is dictated by movement from the forwards, hard to get a responce and good ball movement from statues.
Daniel Hoyne explained this on SEN & said we are 3rd for ball movement in the comp.

 

[beside the seaside]

Except that GWS deal was nothing to do with the Henry deal. Still lucky that GWS wanted Leake so badly. We also used up all our later picks for this season last year. Pretty sure we only have our first and second round picks left.

I think that's why they want to trade out Membrey, Paton, Hayes, Howard etc and let Battle walk. None of the apart from Battle will get much back but they could possibly use them to sell to teams with FS or academy players for points. Or use them in trades for some of the spuds mentioned.

It was a great move by SOS wasn't it. Giants and Suns have so many picks that they don't value them. Hopefully we can do something similar again.

Love him or hate him, the thing about SOS is he tries different strategies to improve. In our position as a club I think that's what we need.

 

[Holy Hunter Clark]

FMD another one that is clueless.

I will type slowly for you to understand, if the indigenous and the non indigenous had the exact same playing field for the lottery fine, but the AFL draft is not supposed to be a game of chance like the lottery.

Players are discriminated against because of where they live.
In the exact case that discrimination directly affected an indigenous kid and did not affect 4 non indigenous kids.

If you can't understand simple facts, which most of your posts seems to suggest, perhaps don't comment on something that will make you look foolish. With people like you it is better to remain silent and let people think you are foolish, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Typed too quickly, I don't understand. Please send help

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[Anythings_sipposible]

Except that GWS deal was nothing to do with the Henry deal. Still lucky that GWS wanted Leake so badly. We also used up all our later picks for this season last year. Pretty sure we only have our first and second round picks left.

I think that's why they want to trade out Membrey, Paton, Hayes, Howard etc and let Battle walk. None of the apart from Battle will get much back but they could possibly use them to sell to teams with FS or academy players for points. Or use them in trades for some of the spuds mentioned.

I agree that it's not exactly fair tying the Henry trade to the GWS trade, but at the end of the day we did get that second trade done and the end result is the same: we gained Henry and still have a second rounder and the player we would have picked with our first last year.

Also, we actually have more picks than we would have had had we not traded last year, or at least we have better picks as we have 1 First, 1 Second, 2 Thirds, and 0 Fourths.

I think currently we have Pick 5 (ours), Pick 25 (Adelaide), Pick 47 (tied to Melbourne for Billings), and Pick 55 (tied to Carlton in the Dow trade).

To that I'd say if we're getting rid of the fringe players you mentioned, it is more list trimming/trying to refresh than out of desperation.