List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[Train12]

If we manage to get pick 8 it will be amazing out of the situation we were in. If we

him 700k it's hardly unders.

He's done very well for himself.

the saltiest of the saltiest, Purple, thinks it will he band one.

geez, some glass houses over this one haha
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This guy!!
North Melbourne have been given handouts over the years…Christ almighty
He is actually cooked in the head.

 

[SaintJunior]

Always makes me laugh when I read players gave their best or played their hearts out.

It is their job that they get paid a lot of money for, giving their best should be an expectation not a badge of honour .

No issue with Battle going it is a business , but he is now an opposition player so hope he plays like a busted ass.

 

[True Believer]

WTF are you on? Issue an apology. When you issue one to me for having to read your shit posts. It’s not about band one, it’s losing a player they wanted to keep who will take less to play elsewhere. They held out until the last days after playing hard ball with him. Also got him off side telling him that they were interested in potentially let him walk for band one. They obviously changed their mind after that, said they wouldn’t go up before offering more money and years. Clumsy shit.

I'll apologise for my posts when you apologise to the entire forum for constantly whining like a bitch and making up shit.

Who said he left for less money? Some media talking heads - obviously in the room for the negotiations were they!! When will you wise up that it's 90% media fill, and 9% deliberate "leaks" by player managers to get the narrative that they want out to the public........

 

[Joffaboy]

Reality is no one really knows. Length and dollars are taken into account but there’s no matrix or guidelines that we know of.

Josh has zero obligation to us to maximize our compo, played his heart out for 7 years getting ****ed about for the first 4-5 positionally and from many accounts was dangled at the start of the year.

I’m not gonna tell people not to pot him cause who gives a shit what a bunch of blokes behind keyboards think but I wish him all the best and have nothing but respect for the decision he’s made. We’ll do the exact same thing when we go for Ldu or whoever next year.

You know I think he has been looking elsewhere for a while. He was pretty unhappy prior to his last contract. Was given some assurances and he could live with it.
Feel that when he and management found out this admin was open to a trade, it added to the previous I'll feelings.
I am not really blaming either party, Saints forced into looking to trade capital as we are locked out on northern NGA's and other FS. They need to try to get new elite players in.
On the other side Battle gets unsettled twice about the club in a couple of years and gets a good offer from his boyhood club, again on the rise.
Really it's only football, it won't change any supporters lives.

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[Minga]

This was a good game of football, back in Covid days, I watched the highlights because I remember it was probably Battles best performance to that date.

2 things I noticed watching this.

1 - at least half of these players are no longer on the team.

2- number one may as well include Dan Butler because the guy playing in this game is surely a different bloke. What has happened that he no longer influences games like that?

Eh, only watched the highlights but I remember the game and Battle was fine! Good in parts! Still not loosing sleep over him leaving though.

And this is possibly the best game Butler ever played, it’s definitely his best game from 2020 and that was the year he was arguably AA.

I miss Paddy Ryder (

 

[Joffaboy]

View attachment 2096299

Got the dial.up going early in Bumf*** WA?

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[pebblesofsand]

depends on the length of the deal, because the new FA rules say compo os only based off money earned over 5 years max. so of Battle has a 6year deal and it's front loaded for, then it should work in our favour

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I'm not sure that is the case.

It seems like they will add extra points to the overall contract "score" based on the length of of the contract up to a maximum of 5 years with no additional points for contracts longer than that.

So its like the age bonus points in reverse which is 12 points for 25 years and cuts out completely at 30.

So compo score is calculated on average salary for the entire length of contract + 2 points a year for each year under 30 + ?? extra points for length of contract up to 5 yrs with extra points after 5 years.

No wonder people get confused.

From the AFL article

"There won't be any contribution of points for one or two-year deals, there will be a small contribution for three, up to a maximum capped contribution for five-year deals and nothing beyond that.

"It'll only take into consideration the five years. It'll cap out at the fifth year of that contract, that'll be the maximum contribution."

 

[D2D3]

the saltiest of the saltiest, Purple, thinks it will he band one.

geez, some glass houses over this one haha
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Just admit you don’t watch football Purple you clown

 

[BrutThough]

the saltiest of the saltiest, Purple, thinks it will he band one.

geez, some glass houses over this one haha
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But I'm sure North deserved the handout compo pick they got last year

 

[The_Steadier]

Hawks are good at steal from us. Cam McKenzie, battles, our requirements zone for decades. Fcuk they

We stole from them to get battle in the first place.

The hawks were so desperate to land their big fish o'meara from gold coast (who were adamant they want 2 first rounders for him)... that during negotiations- the hawks gave us 2 free 2nd round draft pick to move from pick 8 to pick 10 or something.

(The hawks did that so they could have a nuclear option of picking omeara in the national draft (luke ball to pies style) if a trade couldn't be done.

We made out like bandits- and picked ben long and josh battle with our virtually free 2nd rounders.

Hawks got their big fish- who flopped spectacularly.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We stole from them to get battle in the first place.

The hawks were so desperate to land their big fish o'meara from gold coast (who were adamant they want 2 first rounders for him)... that during negotiations- the hawks gave us 2 free 2nd round draft pick to move from pick 8 to pick 10 or something.

(The hawks did that so they could have a nuclear option of picking omeara in the national draft (luke ball to pies style) if a trade couldn't be done.

We made out like bandits- and picked ben long and josh battle with our virtually free 2nd rounders.

Hawks got their big fish- who flopped spectacularly.

They were very clever in that draft.
They screwed us over so cleverly that we thought we screwed them.
They knew that the 2017 draft was full of useless Hunter Clark/Nick Coffield types, and that it was actually costing them nothing to give up their future first.
If we'd just kept it , we'd have probably got Jy Simpkin ( because we were crying out for mids ).
We would have missed Long and Battle, oh well.

 

[Yawkey way]

We stole from them to get battle in the first place.

The hawks were so desperate to land their big fish o'meara from gold coast (who were adamant they want 2 first rounders for him)... that during negotiations- the hawks gave us 2 free 2nd round draft pick to move from pick 8 to pick 10 or something.

(The hawks did that so they could have a nuclear option of picking omeara in the national draft (luke ball to pies style) if a trade couldn't be done.

We made out like bandits- and picked ben long and josh battle with our virtually free 2nd rounders.

Hawks got their big fish- who flopped spectacularly.

The butterfly effect you’re on the alternate timeline where we’ve been taking advantage of the poor hawks.

 

[The Punter]

They were very clever in that draft.
They screwed us over so cleverly that we thought we screwed them.
They knew that the 2017 draft was full of useless Hunter Clark/Nick Coffield types, and that it was actually costing them nothing to give up their future first.
If we'd just kept it , we'd have probably got Jy Simpkin ( because we were crying out for mids ).
We would have missed Long and Battle, oh well.

Oh no, we could have had Jy Simpkin instead of Hunter Clark? This is Bowie over MJ all over again...

 

[Nutsngum]

the saltiest of the saltiest, Purple, thinks it will he band one.

geez, some glass houses over this one haha
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If Battle had requested a trade he would have been worth a first round pick without any doubt. Probaly wouldnt have been as high as pick 8 but a player of his age/ability/durability is not moving clubs for a second rounder.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Disappointing to lose Josh, but players will come and go. Remember, we lost Plugger to Sydney and yet the club survived. Not only did we survive, but we went on to play in a grand final a few years later.

I’m more pissed off at the lack of transparency surrounding compensation picks. Like everything the AFL does, this is just another example of an organisation that lacks any integrity. clubs should be entitled to know what compensation they are likely to get when losing players to free agency. My gut feeling is that AFL will over-correct last year’s decision to award Norf pick 3 for that spud Ben McKay and hand us a band 2 compensation pick, even though it is obvious that Josh Battle is a far superior player.

I hope I’m wrong and we get the band 1 compensation which I believe we deserve, and I also hope Josh has done the right thing by the club and forced Hawthrorn to dig deeper and push their contract offer high enough to trigger the band 1 compensation.

I can see the lack of transparency- wouldn’t want any more manipulation. Not that they so

Front ending doesn't help the compo. It is based on the average yearly over the length of the contract.

As for us supposedly panicking and offering more at the last moment, people need to remember its an auction.

No one in their right mind offers $1.0M as the first bid at an auction on a house the agents have said is worth around $700K.

We bid, we then found out what the market was prepared to pay, we then put in our final bid. Pretty normal process.

Based on the figures being talked about it will be Band 1 compo.

But it would help us a little bit if his total package was, say, $5.1m over 6 years (850k Ave), but the first 5 years is $4.5m and the final year $600k. I am assuming of course that the 5 year length ‘cap’ that they count (thatcher than 6) also applies to the Ave money and not the Ace money for the full life of the contract. If not, then front ending wouldn’t make a lick of difference.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Spot on. Think about applying for any job, pay is usually the last thing finalised and rarely is the first number the final number. I don't understand why anyone thinks Saints making a final offer is somehow a slur on the Saints? It is BAU.

Agree. Our Horks mate yesterday didn’t get that aspect.

 

[SaintyMcSaintface]

They were very clever in that draft.
They screwed us over so cleverly that we thought we screwed them.
They knew that the 2017 draft was full of useless Hunter Clark/Nick Coffield types, and that it was actually costing them nothing to give up their future first.
If we'd just kept it , we'd have probably got Jy Simpkin ( because we were crying out for mids ).
We would have missed Long and Battle, oh well.

That is an insane take considering O'Meara has done nothing, Coffield and Clark have both showed a lot outside of injuries, Long could have been Bolton and Battle has been excellent for us

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Some logic in this. The rules seem very rubbery and I think AFL will make band 1 happen in part because Saints deserve a break.

I can understand that the criteria are not transparent. Open to easy manipulation between two clubs - notwithstanding that I’m sure they’d already have some kind of ballpark indication from the AFL).

 

[pebblesofsand]

I can see the lack of transparency- wouldn’t want any more manipulation. Not that they so

But it would help us a little bit if his total package was, say, $5.1m over 6 years (850k Ave), but the first 5 years is $4.5m and the final year $600k. I am assuming of course that the 5 year length ‘cap’ that they count (thatcher than 6) also applies to the Ave money and not the Ace money for the full life of the contract. If not, then front ending wouldn’t make a lick of difference.

See my post above - I don't believe the AFL consider front ending.

Its guaranteed average over the entire contract plus extra points based on age between 25 and 30 and length of contract between 3 to 5 years.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

If Battle had requested a trade he would have been worth a first round pick without any doubt. Probaly wouldnt have been as high as pick 8 but a player of his age/ability/durability is not moving clubs for a second rounder.

And in draft parlance, clubs seem to put a fair bit of weight on the final year growth. Battle was certainly on his way up. He was v good in 2023 as well I thought, but just didn’t get any recognition because iTs SAintKilDA

 

[Tommy Wigs]

See my post above - I don't believe the AFL consider front ending.

Its guaranteed average over the entire contract plus extra points based on age between 25 and 30 and length of contract between 3 to 5 years.

Well, I hope you’re wrong. But appreciate that you’ve given some guidance.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I predict we will get a player in the draft , 1st or 2nd round , as compensation.
We'll all agree that the player we draft has way more future potential than Battle, but in his first year will have similar impact on the team's performance to Lance Collard 2024.
Sometime during his second year he will suffer a freak injury and move to the long term injury list.
He'll play the year after, but very ordinary....its because he's off an injury and had an interrupted pre-season.
The year after that he will have a full pre-season and still play very ordinary , delist at the end of the year.
We will all argue about whether it was poor drafting or rotten dumb luck.

 

[Joffaboy]

They were very clever in that draft.
They screwed us over so cleverly that we thought we screwed them.
They knew that the 2017 draft was full of useless Hunter Clark/Nick Coffield types, and that it was actually costing them nothing to give up their future first.
If we'd just kept it , we'd have probably got Jy Simpkin ( because we were crying out for mids ).
We would have missed Long and Battle, oh well.

How is that stolen when they gave us the picks?

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[gubby88]

I'm not sure that is the case.

It seems like they will add extra points to the overall contract "score" based on the length of of the contract up to a maximum of 5 years with no additional points for contracts longer than that.

So its like the age bonus points in reverse which is 12 points for 25 years and cuts out completely at 30.

So compo score is calculated on average salary for the entire length of contract + 2 points a year for each year under 30 + ?? extra points for length of contract up to 5 yrs with extra points after 5 years.

No wonder people get confused.

From the AFL article

"There won't be any contribution of points for one or two-year deals, there will be a small contribution for three, up to a maximum capped contribution for five-year deals and nothing beyond that.

"It'll only take into consideration the five years. It'll cap out at the fifth year of that contract, that'll be the maximum contribution."

its a full KFC secret herbs and spices isnt it....

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Oh no, we could have had Jy Simpkin instead of Hunter Clark? This is Bowie over MJ all over again...

98 games vs 152 for starters.