List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[Verdun66]

A couple of days ago I got a bit triggered about the prospect that IF Battle leaves we would only get a pick in the 20’s somewhere as compensation.

On a Twitter exchange with St Neil he advised to see how it plays out. I have reflected on that and think that ‘what will be will be’. Might be pick 7 or 8 is an ok player, but Pick 25 is a generational talent. Who knows really?

We definitely need game changing mids. That is our weak spot. How do you get them? Like most things, you have to give up something. Unfortunately valuable.

Have decided to remain calm. Getting worked up about this stuff over the years is fairly fruitless. I like the way we are going, so am keen just to see how it plays out. Being optimistic is better than all the pessimistic talk in here.

 

[Mowman]

It was a private conversation that Mowman referenced- I just gave clarity

Nope , was told by a few and what we spoke about there was a few in the group

 

[Mowman]

Just as I have been chair at a club before, this is not a general indication of a push, as in plan =/=push. Granted we didn't have the whole free agency stuff but it was more "yeah soz mate more money over there" sort of off seasons but you know...

If you know player A is 'thinking about it" and you've allocated B-G, yo would be utterly remiss to go "yeah no need to do anything about that until later" and then potentially watch them go "thanks but no thanks". That's shit business. You make plans and you have discussions that "here's where we sit, happy to chat about things, just you know just as you can't wait forever neither can we" and plan potential things.

When you're talking much much larger money frankly, there's just more i's to dot and t's to cross in the when, what and how. So a push to me would be "hey Batts, we previously had 800k, we now decided on 550 as you're wishy washy and lost directors 3-5, kindly tell us if you wish to take it or GTFO please."

You know, frank discussion of terms and where one stands.

What does this even mean ? Wtf

 

[karnaby]

"The key to the formula is a ranking system, in which every player in the AFL aged 25 or older is placed in order, based on the size of their (guaranteed) contract.

The highest-paid players are ranked at 100 points, the lowest at 0. The AFL then allocates up to 12 additional points for a player’s age.

At 25 (as of October 31), a player receives the maximum of 12 points, a 26-year-old earns another 10 points, 27-year-olds gain another 8, 28 brings 6 and so forth, with a 30-year-old worth just 2 extra points.

Players older than 30 earn no points. Under this system, thus, the maximum a player can receive is 112 points.

AFL sources say that the age of a player is important, because two fewer points might see a free agent slide 10 or so placings in the rankings, when they are paid the same money."

Thanks pebbles. That clears some parts of this up.

Have you, or anyone else, been able to find any info to clarify how the lenght of a contract might weigh into these calculations? Fwiw, comparing it to the above, I imagine that it might look like a 5+ year contract = X points, 4yr = X - Y, 3yr = X -2Y etc.

If we could understand how this (is supposed to) work and if we could roughly work out where Battle might sit on the player pay continuum [earlier in the thread you gave a figure for the top 5% of 900k - I think based on this years payments] it could go some way to building confidence about getting band 1 while we all wait for a ****ing eternity to actually find out.

 

[StFly]

What does this even mean ? Wtf

General statement that not all plans are malicious in nature in football administration.

 

[Klaatu]

Whether you’re a 1 day supporter or member or a 50 year supporter member I’ve learnt not to get attached to players it’s the club & colours I respect & barrack for.

Players come & go supporters are for life.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Diehard Saint]

But the club did shop him around
It was decided before the season started that Battle would be used to get into the high end of the draft by SOS and Gubby

And you know that for certain….how?
He was, of course, the most likely, being an UFA, but if Josh had said I’m most definitely staying, I love the club, well then there was nothing they could have done. Unless you think they’d lowball him, which by all accounts they have not done.

And, welcome back!

 

[gringo2011]

We didn’t decide anything. We would explore every option. There was plenty of variables you aren’t considering.

Because you are a stupid moron.

You are getting nasty Flaps. No need to get bitchy.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

OK, so our offer would have dragged Essendon's lower. Now I understand. Thank you for the explanation.

So we were doing the opposite of doing Essendon a favour. Even more pleasing.

Not only did Essendon pay 5 times what we verbally offered, but that’s 10 times too much.

 

[phantom13]

General statement that not all plans are malicious in nature in football administration.

I haven’t suggested it’s malicious either but the intent was clearly there to push him out and get a pick in.

Clearly Josh feels aggrieved by it and I can understand that but it’s pushing him out, plain and simple.

 

[Diehard Saint]

How on earth do you know that?
It’s been said time and again that he and family are mad Hawks supporters and he loves Sam Mitchell. I’m pretty sure the club did not approach Hawthorn about him.

Once approached, they probably did see the benefits of him leaving but STILL appear to have offered him a very good contract.

Interested to know why you “lolled” this post gringo2011.
Which part amused you? You think the club did approach the Hawks?
Genuine question.

 

[gringo2011]

If that's the case then that's an absolute embarrassment for the club.

We should have offered overs so if he left it would trigger band one.

It will all come out in the wash I guess but if he triggers band two it's a howler. Reality is keeping him would have been the best option but that ship seems to have sailed.

Then he might have wanted to stay and ruin their plan.

 

[BrutThough]

And you know that for certain….how?
He was, of course, the most likely, being an UFA, but if Josh had said I’m most definitely staying, I love the club, well then there was nothing they could have done. Unless you think they’d lowball him, which by all accounts they have not done.

And, welcome back!

He doesnt. Just like anyone claiming to know in depth details about list management.

 

[The_Steadier]

Gallagher left at the end of 2022.
There's a clueless obsession about him on here.

Before he left- he re-signed battle in Aug 2022 to the contract which ends this year.
(When he was cemented as a clear best 22 player)

Battle won: Defender re-signs, question mark on veterans

Josh Battle extends his stay at Moorabbin for another two years, club turns to unsigned stars

www.afl.com.au

2023 (ie the first year of joshs current contract which gags signed) is the year that is used to determine whether josh is in the top 25% of our player payments or not.

Before he left in 2022- gags was in charge of setting our 2023 contract structure (ie who on paper is in our top 25% paid players).

Here we are in 2024- and at the start of this year, josh is given unrestricted free agent status.

Why?
Because of the contract gags signed him to in Aug 22 and how gags set our contracts up for 2023 before he left in december 2022.

would you like to revist your statement?

 

[Mowman]

Whether you’re a 1 day supporter or member or a 50 year supporter member I’ve learnt not to get attached to players it’s the club & colours I respect & barrack for.

Players come & go supporters are for life.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

48 years and i have learnt you don't lose very good players for SFA if your a well run footy club

 

[Mowman]

He doesnt. Just like anyone claiming to know in depth details about list management.

You still going with Battle can't play back and Sharman won't make it, LOL

 

[Tommy Wigs]

They have maintained it’s band 1 since I spoke about it in June.

Just like when I said to you in December that Battle & Howard would be the next two looked at for picks.

Both from the same source.

It all looks pretty accurate. There wouldn’t have been many posters on big footy thinking Battle gets band 1 compo in December.

Well, I appreciate it mate. It’d be bat shite boring without some speculation and helps me cope rather than thinking where did pick 4 and 5 go and why do we now have pick 7 and pick 30.

 

[Diehard Saint]

48 years and i have learnt you don't lose very good players for SFA if your a well run footy club

Well hopefully our panicking is all in vain and we’ll pick up a sweet top 10 pick for him.

 

[gringo2011]

spot on, that's before you look at the massive list management hole its going to create.

its terrible list management

It creates a hole in a few years with that 22 to 27 age bracket our thinnest due to Gags and Lethlean doing their upside down list build. 4 years and guys like Sinclair, Marshall, Steele types will be long gone. Battle would have been that senior leader.

 

[gringo2011]

Just as I have been chair at a club before, this is not a general indication of a push, as in plan =/=push. Granted we didn't have the whole free agency stuff but it was more "yeah soz mate more money over there" sort of off seasons but you know...

If you know player A is 'thinking about it" and you've allocated B-G, yo would be utterly remiss to go "yeah no need to do anything about that until later" and then potentially watch them go "thanks but no thanks". That's shit business. You make plans and you have discussions that "here's where we sit, happy to chat about things, just you know just as you can't wait forever neither can we" and plan potential things.

When you're talking much much larger money frankly, there's just more i's to dot and t's to cross in the when, what and how. So a push to me would be "hey Batts, we previously had 800k, we now decided on 550 as you're wishy washy and lost directors 3-5, kindly tell us if you wish to take it or GTFO please."

You know, frank discussion of terms and where one stands.

Call it dangling an asset or whatever you want to call it and it’s a similar concept

 

[LongParker]

You still going with Battle can't play back and Sharman won't make it, LOL

Wait till Sharman plays on Battle next year and Kicks 5 goals on him lol

 

[Verdun66]

At least this year the trade threads are dominated by a compensation pick. In the past mythical trades have been the hot topic.

Kelly, Boyd, De Goey, Whitfield and many other targets slipping into the dim and distant past. Virtually none came to pass. And we ended up getting players no one talked about.

Who were some of the other ‘trade talk’ targets we wasted all that time on?

 

[gringo2011]

We will get band 1 for Battle

Peatling, Shiel & Tomlinson should be in StKilda colours next yr

Tomlinson is insurance for losing Battle & allow others to continue to develop… plus he wants out as he and Steven May absolutely despise each other

Peace out

Can see me one lend me a pen? I need to go stick a ball point up my urethra to find something more painful than following this club through trade period. I think I’m a masochist.

 

[gringo2011]

Whether you’re a 1 day supporter or member or a 50 year supporter member I’ve learnt not to get attached to players it’s the club & colours I respect & barrack for.

Players come & go supporters are for life.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Without success the players are all we have. Saints fans. Get more attached because good players have been so hard to stockpile

 

[gringo2011]

Interested to know why you “lolled” this post gringo2011.
Which part amused you? You think the club did approach the Hawks?
Genuine question.

Not a factor from what I’ve heard.