List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[Premium]

So can Zac Jones. So did Ben Long. And of course, so can the modern messiah Max King.

If we're going anywhere, we need to minimise our numbers of inconsistent players and maximise the dependable guns. We've been a "unbeatable at our best" team for too long now.

People are doubting the ability of Max King , it must be remembered the guy just turned 24.
Being a bean pole at 2.02m the guy really is only now ready to show what he has got.

The last 2 years have been wasted due to injury - last year late start to the year due to shoulder reconstruction , then he did it again.
This year showed glimpses /got reported / form far from great and injury again ended his year - ok injuries happen and his body language does not look good , but this guy has been in development and people don't care if we traded him out is mind blowing.

In his first couple years he showed he was one of the best contested marks in the AFL - 4th in 2021 and 3rd in 2022 , so we know the talents there and has shown it in a few games.

He could well be a bust but he currently has 2 yrs left on his contract , if he doesn't perform in the next 2yrs his next contract will be no world beater - so he is going to have every reason to turn it on.

We need a key forward and he is now at the age to show his best and with Sharman , Henry , Higgins , Owens we could go from battling to score goals to making it look like a picnic.

He could be our Trump card or he could be a bust , but these next 2 yrs on his contract will tell his future and the clubs.

 

[Premium]

Could definitely get onboard an In:JL Out:Members assuming it's a 2nd rounder only.

He will be a first round draft pick , fully expect the Crows will have him signed up already

 

[Premium]

Would be stoked to get JL to the club for a second round pick. Would let Membrey walk to North in that case and have Hammer train as a defender all pre season.

B: Wilkie, Howard, Webster
HB: Nas, Caminiti, Sinclair
C: Hill, Steele, Wood
HF: Higgins, Lukosius, Owens
F: Butler, King, Sharman

Foll: Marshall, Phillipou, Windhager
Int: Wilson, Clark, Stocker, Dow, Garcia (sub)

Would be an exciting round 1, 2025 lineup.

Fully expect to see Henry in the line up and any of Hastie , Schoenmaker or McLennan could easily be in the line after there first full preseason.

 

[CursingFijian]

And just who would you hire who would ensure it doesn’t keep dragging out forever. Who would move us forward fast?

Which proven coach is available?

I’d suggest none.

And any unproven coach would be a more risky proposition than the incumbent.

There’s a feeling that there may eventually be a transition to Enright, and if that were to happen I suspect it will happen in an orderly fashion.

No need to burn the place down yet.

Darren Burgess would be a great addition for a squad that strategises around its running prowess.

 

[TheJackal]

Hypothetically would you trade 7 + 8 for 3 picks between 11 and 15

Personally no, I wouldn't entertain that. It's devastating enough to slide from 5 to 7, we still have a chance at one of the top 6 or so at 7.

I'd trade 8 & 2025 1st for the 3 picks.
I'd also trade 8 & 2025 1st for 5 & one of those between 11 & 15.
Or 7, 8 & 2025 1st for 1 & 5.

Few options, but the main theme is that I'd only want to move 7 up to a better pick.

 

[Significant]

Personally no, I wouldn't entertain that. It's devastating enough to slide from 5 to 7, we still have a chance at one of the top 6 or so at 7.

I'd trade 8 & 2025 1st for the 3 picks.
I'd also trade 8 & 2025 1st for 5 & one of those between 11 & 15.
Or 7, 8 & 2025 1st for 1 & 5.

Few options, but the main theme is that I'd only want to move 7 up to a better pick.

Couldn't agree more

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Fully expect to see Henry in the line up and any of Hastie , Schoenmaker or McLennan could easily be in the line after there first full preseason.

Always gotta miss someone. Henry definitely in

 

[ThomasR]

Personally no, I wouldn't entertain that. It's devastating enough to slide from 5 to 7, we still have a chance at one of the top 6 or so at 7.

I'd trade 8 & 2025 1st for the 3 picks.
I'd also trade 8 & 2025 1st for 5 & one of those between 11 & 15.
Or 7, 8 & 2025 1st for 1 & 5.

Few options, but the main theme is that I'd only want to move 7 up to a better pick.

If the picks between 11 & 15 are actually Freo's current 9+10 and GC's 13 (Bolton/Rioli trades, adjusted for Battle compo and Ashcroft bid) I think it has plenty of merit, but I'd want to wait and see who is still on the board first. At that point it would effectively be 8+9 for 11+12+15, with Essendon holding pick 10.

Richmond likely take a mid and KPP with those picks. If Essendon are into Shanahan (or we are convinced they'd match an early Kako bid), we might effectively slide back just one spot on our midfielder draft board, and gain pick 15 in return - and that is assuming Richmond take the player at the top of our wishlist.

For Travaglia/Lindsay types it works out nicely, and we'd likely still end up with one of the so-called top 7 mids. Seems like good business in that case, but admittedly one with a lot of ifs. We can always say no if our top-rated guys are still there at 7&8, or there are other possible variations on the deal.

It's all well and good to offer Mac Andrew $12 million but we'll probably need next year's first rounder (and plenty more) if we want to bring him across. I don't think it's worth trading it to slide up a speculative draft order, especially in a draft that seems more even than super.

 

[snails13]

Personally no, I wouldn't entertain that. It's devastating enough to slide from 5 to 7, we still have a chance at one of the top 6 or so at 7.

I'd trade 8 & 2025 1st for the 3 picks.
I'd also trade 8 & 2025 1st for 5 & one of those between 11 & 15.
Or 7, 8 & 2025 1st for 1 & 5.

Few options, but the main theme is that I'd only want to move 7 up to a better pick.

Richmond will get sufficient early round picks with all there upcoming trades to chase pick 2 from North

 

[Yawkey way]

It sucks but there is never going to be full equality regardless. You just need to get the system with the least loop holes possible. If we take Peckett, Lennox and Cole and they become stars and meanwhile Windhager and Owens become premiership players we will have got our free hits. Riewoldt could have three star sons and we will have made it impossible for us to get access.

Pick 1 is rarely the best player in any draft. In 2007 Dangerfield went at 10. He's probably the best in the first round of his draft followed by Rioli at 12, Rance at 18, Cotchin at 2 and maybe Mastens at 3, then Harry Taylor at 17.

Taylor Walker at 75 was probably close to the top 5 players in that draft and Kruiser was pick 1.

It’s absolutely pointless and with academy’s it’s out of control. People talk about the romance yet conveniently forget that we have live trading as well as a trade week. Do you think Brisbane are trading up for Ashcroft if they had to, hell no. Did Collingwood move heaven and earth to get Ed Richards , Hawthorn had josh Kennedy and said yeah nah see you kid, it’s a sham.

Get rid of it, there’s no need for it and if any club or player really felt that strongly there is already a way to make it happen. If you dream of the Riewoldt boys being stars for us at some point down the track or some cosmic justice evening things out you’ll be waiting a long time. If you want a fair chance to win on merit then axe this rubbish asap, axe it when Tassie concessions come in that’s enough advance warning. If it’s deemed that the afl needs academy’s then let the afl run them, that seems simple enough.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Why do you say that?

Stkilda

 

[g_TRAIN]

There's all sorts of skills that can be developed and improved upon, the desire to win, to compete isn't one of them.

Look at Hugo, Mitch, Wilson, Windy, Steele and Jones. Then look at Collard, polar opposites.

Some people are born with innate competitiveness agreed.

I don't agree it can't be improved though. Higgins has improved in this area, his tackling, pressure and work rate is now more than acceptable where as previously it was sub par.

Milne went from very poor to acceptable in that area as well.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Hypothetically would you trade 7 + 8 for 3 picks between 11 and 15

No


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[Coconut_twirl]

Hypothetically would you trade 7 + 8 for 3 picks between 11 and 15

I doubt Richmond would actually do it.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Hey we got a bargain once when we got top 8 pick Billy Longer for a pick in the 20s. Surely worth doing again.

We got Jack Steele for a pick in the 20’s once too.

Bargain?


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[SteeleSaints]

Hypothetically would you trade 7 + 8 for 3 picks between 11 and 15

Absolutely...

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Some people are born with innate competitiveness agreed.

I don't agree it can't be improved though. Higgins has improved in this area, his tackling, pressure and work rate is now more than acceptable where as previously it was sub par.

Milne went from very poor to acceptable in that area as well.

Tom Lynch ( the little one ) was pretty poor until he was traded and the penny dropped.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We got Jack Steele for a pick in the 20’s once too.

Bargain?


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We knew why Jack Steele was a pick in the 20's.
Why are the Suns getting rid of Lukocious?
They were comparing him to Jack Watts on the radio this morning.
Baylee Fristch ( the player chosen with the pick the Crows gave ) is still playing. Watts isn't.

 

[The Punter]

Darcy, UH and Croft have hardly done anything yet. They keep drafting well and refreshing the list. They won a premiership and cut back hard and went again. Played off in another GF and refreshed hard again. Probably jump us again with a third rebuild before we've finished one.

Collingwood also lost good players and rather than complain they found lots of players from other clubs being under utilised and state league talent. They have all had handy bonuses but that's not why they are good. They both get most things right with drafting and list management.

The way the Saints fans whine about how hard it all is while the club has been doing **** all to improve our own lot is embarrassing. We deliberately starved the footy department out and keep incompetent staff as long as no-one complained.

Look, amongst friends, we have made mistakes. A lot of that can only be identified once the mistake is obvious. 2016-2017 looked promising, so we handed Richo an extension. Trac is high maintenance. Easy in hindsight, especially when the prevailing wisdom in the mid to late 2010s was back your guy in (ask Hardwick and Buckley).

None of that is relevant to the structural inequities that make the mountain steeper than it should be. We get Elwood Peckett and he turns out great this year: wonderful. Doesn't change the issue which the league should fix. We give succour to those who want to keep us in what they see as our rightful place if we nod our heads when we say "the system is broken" and they come back with "Clark and Coffield before Naughton".

Part of the reason Collingwood succeed is they do not accept being put in a corner. It's the great Eddie legacy at that place. And it's a decision. It's the added benefit of backing our leadership in when they call out the brokenness of the system.

Having said that, get the players in, coach 'em up, and ensure the players know they're the ones for whom the responsibility lies for success.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

I reckon th Suns are the ones. As mentioned above, have to lose extra players, have loads of picks, a few players seemingly wanting out. Can't see how they give pick 6 for Rioli, overs I'd have thought. Alex Davies cheaply and better/more picks, thanks.

 

[stavro#4]

I reckon we could split pick 8.

For example, If you have a look at potential trade targets.

Macrae Serong Soldo Peatling

Our potential draft hand would be:

7,8,25,44,82

Membrey Paton Hayes Probably still to exit.

That would be 9 list spots - potentially Hotton Heath aswell.

We may need a few more picks.

 

[SteeleSaints]

I reckon we could split pick 8.

For example, If you have a look at potential trade targets.

Macrae Serong Soldo Peatling

Our potential draft hand would be:

7,8,25,44,82

Membrey Paton Hayes Probably still to exit.

That would be 9 list spots - potentially Hotton Heath aswell.

We may need a few more picks.

Hopefully we can get something useable in return for the losses of Membrey, Hayes and Paton. If I was the Port list manager I would be looking at Hayes as a potential CHB.

I gather if we get Soldo, Heath becomes excess which is a shame. He is a slow burn but his competitiveness in games is something you cant bottle.

I wrote him off early in the year he wasnt improving, but as soon as he was exposed to the main ruck role he came ahead in leaps and bounds. Hopefully we can give him another year to see if he really does blossom with the No 1 VFL gig.

Hotton hasn't set the world on fire, but his first year was destroyed by injury again is worth another year, just to see what he can produce.

Another tall defender came up in the media this morning Wade Derkson GWS 198cms. He was drafted as a forward/ruckman but has been holding down a key defensive role in the Giants VFL and doing well. He is originally a Darwin lad who was setting the WAFL alight before being drafted. Is looking for opportunities apparently.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Hopefully we can get something useable in return for the losses of Membrey, Hayes and Paton. If I was the Port list manager I would be looking at Hayes as a potential CHB.

I gather if we get Soldo, Heath becomes excess which is a shame. He is a slow burn but his competitiveness in games is something you cant bottle.

I wrote him off early in the year he wasnt improving, but as soon as he was exposed to the main ruck role he came ahead in leaps and bounds. Hopefully we can give him another year to see if he really does blossom with the No 1 VFL gig.

Hotton hasn't set the world on fire, but his first year was destroyed by injury again is worth another year, just to see what he can produce.

Another tall defender came up in the media this morning Wade Derkson GWS 198cms. He was drafted as a forward/ruckman but has been holding down a key defensive role in the Giants VFL and doing well. He is originally a Darwin lad who was setting the WAFL alight before being drafted. Is looking for opportunities apparently.

3 Ruckmen on the list isn't excessive.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

If the picks between 11 & 15 are actually Freo's current 9+10 and GC's 13 (Bolton/Rioli trades, adjusted for Battle compo and Ashcroft bid) I think it has plenty of merit, but I'd want to wait and see who is still on the board first. At that point it would effectively be 8+9 for 11+12+15, with Essendon holding pick 10.

Richmond likely take a mid and KPP with those picks. If Essendon are into Shanahan (or we are convinced they'd match an early Kako bid), we might effectively slide back just one spot on our midfielder draft board, and gain pick 15 in return - and that is assuming Richmond take the player at the top of our wishlist.

For Travaglia/Lindsay types it works out nicely, and we'd likely still end up with one of the so-called top 7 mids. Seems like good business in that case, but admittedly one with a lot of ifs. We can always say no if our top-rated guys are still there at 7&8, or there are other possible variations on the deal.

It's all well and good to offer Mac Andrew $12 million but we'll probably need next year's first rounder (and plenty more) if we want to bring him across. I don't think it's worth trading it to slide up a speculative draft order, especially in a draft that seems more even than super.

Agree. Now that Reid, Langford and Armstrong are really pressing their claims, it’s become a bit more of a top 8/9 now. Hopefully more chance we get two guys that fit requirements.

 

[stavro#4]

Agree. Now that Reid, Langford and Armstrong are really pressing their claims, it’s become a bit more of a top 8/9 now. Hopefully more chance we get two guys that fit requirements.

Travaglia surely is included