List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[MrFoster]

Paying dividends is going after a Merrett, LDU, Houston or Petracca, not someone who can barely crack his own side's midfield

Then you need to sacrifice 2 first round picks and risk the future, which is what we don’t want to do… It’s a balance act… If we can get someone like a Kennedy in for a 3rd round pick (#50 odd) to provide immediate help to Steele whilst still draft 2 top young mids for the future.. then why not? Always need to consider the cost and benefit..

I would actually say adding one of Merrett or Petracca is not going to make a huge difference, you need a strong support cast which we don’t have yet.. Merrett or Petracca just replaces Crouch.. then what?

Good side have 4-5 high level mids.. (please don’t count any of Philipou, Windhager or Clark, Jones, Dow as high level)

 

[The_Steadier]

Paying dividends is going after a Merrett, LDU, Houston or Petracca, not someone who can barely crack his own side's midfield

Why do you presume it's an either/or?

I don't think anyone is suggesting we not try and land a merrett/ldu/petracca because we are instead trying to land a minnow like matt kennedy.
lol.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

Plenty of hindsight applied here.

Totally agree that matt kennedy is not and never will be at their level- i didn't say he was.

But mitchell was offloaded by the swans because he was iffy- despite his ability to get 40 touches etc a game, horse didnt rate him and happily sent him packing.

Pretty much the same as what happened (in reverse) with josh kennedy from hawks to swans- he was considered iffy/surplus and traded- then kicked on to be a big success for the swans.

As for neale- again, despite bnfs etc, he wasnt rated highly enough (by rtb) to stop him from leaving while contracted.

The point is- there are plenty of examples of where mids aren't rated high enough to keep by their club (like kennedy is)- and then they go on to hit new heights elsewhere

Mitchell was not offloaded. He was a star. He put off contract talks. Swans wanted to keep him but had to deal with a salary cap that was bursting. Kennedy is no where near the same league, has been dumped and is a weird bible thumper.

 

[Fehring]

The claim was that there are no examples of 'iffy' mids being traded in and having success.

I've listed josh kennedy to swans, tom mitchell to hawks, acres to carlton, neale etc as examples of mids who were cut loose/surplus/undervalued and went on to be a success.
I'm sure there's plenty of other examples too.

I didn't say anything about it being a foolproof method of success (as your strawman implies)- just saying that it can and does happen.

...you could also list one Jack Steele in that category. He was young, but not seen by many as a potential AA mid (I think the skipper of GWS at the time was an exception).

 

[akaifu]

Sandringham needs mids too. It just means that your depth is better. If Clark is performing poorly he's at Sandy. Jones and Dow are break glass. Kids can develop in the VFL and be put back up when their performance warrants it.

We can't stay in perpetual rebuild mode. At some point we ned to pay some dividends.

Hopefully the good thing to come out of an even draft is that some good players miss out and Sandy can finally have some decent prospects fall into their lap!

Although would probably hit them in the nuts and be picked up by a competent VFL side

 

[phantom13]

Wild stuff that Mat ****ing Kennedy has gotten this much passion out of a supporter base to be perfectly frank.

Take him, dont take, who gives a shit.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

This nails it for me. Final game of the year, Phillipou had zero CBAs, Garcia was sub and Jones got pushed out to a wing. This is despite Windy & Henry being injured, Ross & Crouch already on the outer. We went with Steele / Clark / Dow / Stocker.

As a rule we'll run 4 primary mid rotations, with Steele playing a large % TOG. If we're going to use Windy/Stocker in a run-with role, having Steele/Macrae/Kennedy as the others leaves an extremely limited amount of opportunities available to be shared between Pou Clark Dow Garcia Jones Wilson Henry Owens Sinclair etc. Not to mention the draftees. Even Macrae I am a bit hesitant about, but Kennedy would definitely be one too many and doesn't improve the side enough to justify it (as opposed to Merrett etc).

There are plenty of other areas where we lack depth or quality (ruck, small fwd, key defender) and should be focusing, instead of adding another mid who isn't going to move the needle very far. List spots are scarce, the only way I could see us pursuing Kennedy is if someone else gets traded out, but the only guys with currency are the kids I'd rather keep developing. Pass

We definitely don’t need both, but the same reason I don’t get the point of some minor uplift from Macrae for a couple years. If we don’t have enough experience from Steele, Jones, Dow, Clark, even Windy in his 4th and Pou likely to be well advanced for his age. I get that we have a crap midfield, but keep the pick, keep the bag of cash and front load, use Dalrymple and nail the god damn pick.

 

[saintkildaman]

Wild stuff that Mat ****ing Kennedy has gotten this much passion out of a supporter base to be perfectly frank.

Take him, dont take, who gives a shit.

Agreed, let’s move on. Dylan Shiel anyone?

 

[St Neil]

Macrae will cost pick 24 - midweek tackle

Sorry. Surplus to Bulldogs needs and is on a significant contract.

Pick 43 at best.

 

[Pencil case]

Sorry. Surplus to Bulldogs needs and is on a significant contract.

Pick 43 at best.

Don’t shoot the messenger. I think it’s too much too. Will probably end up something like Macrae and 32 for 24 & 43

 

[CursingFijian]

We've struggled for 4 years with injury to the midfield.

Not just midfield injuries, but our prime movers Steele and Crouch have both been hampered at different times through that stretch.

And then a big chunk of our second tier mids Ross, Zones, McKenzie, Billings were all missing big chunks due to injury.

In Round 1, 2023 we had Clark, Byrnes, Phillipou and Bytel as starting 22 midfielders and were rolling Gresham and Sinclair through the middle, and none were really at the level. Ross Lyon was running an under powered setup on paper, it's a miracle we won clearances, let alone games.

In Round 1 this year we had Seb Ross, Windhager, Byrnes, Phillipou, Wilson, a one legged Crouch and were rolling Stocker and Henry through the middle (Sinclair was injured). Nothing really changed.

In 2025 we need all our older players (Steele, Macrae, Hill, Webster, Wood, Sinclair, Jones, Marshall, Wilkie, Dougal and Butler) to get through pre-season unscathed and be fit and firing come Round Zero.

We need all our 23 - 25 year olds (Higgins, Clark, Dow, Stocker, King, Sharman, Byrnes, and Henry) to at least become consistent performers and start hitting the KPI benchmarks for their position week in and week out. But we also need at least 4-5 of this group to elevate themselves to become durable, consistent above average B-Graders. King and Sharman hopefully and 2 or more of the rest of that bunch.

We've got an exceptional bunch of 19-21 year olds at the moment spearheaded by Phillipou, Naz, Windy, and Mitchito and including Wilson, Caminiti, Hastie, Garcia, Collard and Keeler. Soon to be joined by two more highly rated youngsters. This last group is the one that will eventually push us deep into September once they can hit the benchmarks that Ross Lyon sets for their positions.

Keeping players healthy and fit, and developing and fast tracking as many of our younger brigade as possible becomes the key focus for us after this draft, and I would consider channeling as much of the new soft cap as possible into both of those areas.

By the way, Phillipou turns 20 in December this year. This years rising star, Ollie Dempsey turns 22 ten days later. Phillipou's potential and career tracking is through the roof when you stand back and consider it.

 

[Saints43]

Sandringham needs mids too. It just means that your depth is better. If Clark is performing poorly he's at Sandy. Jones and Dow are break glass. Kids can develop in the VFL and be put back up when their performance warrants it.

We can't stay in perpetual rebuild mode. At some point we ned to pay some dividends.

I agree. It'd be the first time I could ever remember more than one AFL level midfielder playing in the reserves for us.
Usually can't field four to begin with.

 

[Jay Beast]

Macrae will cost pick 24 - midweek tackle

Yeah, nah

 

[Remboy]

Don’t shoot the messenger. I think it’s too much too. Will probably end up something like Macrae and 32 for 24 & 43

A suggestion on the main board was for 43 and a future third. Someone also said the Bulldogs would pay some of his salary for 24. I can’t see us doing that though.

 

[Pencil case]

A suggestion on the main board was for 43 and a future third. Someone also said the Bulldogs would pay some of his salary for 24. I can’t see us doing that though.

I believe if 43 and third were offered Dogs would retain him as it’d not be worth. Both clubs have tons of cap space so I’m not sure if paying salary comes into the equation. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[Remboy]

I believe if 43 and third were offered Dogs would retain him as it’d not be worth. Both clubs have tons of cap space so I’m not sure if paying salary comes into the equation. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Given that he’s nominated us and we want him I’ve got no doubt a deal will be done. No doubt we’ll end up somewhere in between. Can’t see us giving up pick 24 for him though.

 

[austinnn]

Always pinned Stringer as more of an Epstein Island sort of fella


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Bit too highbrow for Stringer, he'd be more your internet and nightclub lurker with a sideline in fake IDs I reckon

 

[St Kilda Death]

Plenty of hindsight applied here.

Totally agree that matt kennedy is not and never will be at their level- i didn't say he was.

But mitchell was offloaded by the swans because he was iffy- despite his ability to get 40 touches etc a game, horse didnt rate him and happily sent him packing.

Pretty much the same as what happened (in reverse) with josh kennedy from hawks to swans- he was considered iffy/surplus and traded- then kicked on to be a big success for the swans.

As for neale- again, despite bnfs etc, he wasnt rated highly enough (by rtb) to stop him from leaving while contracted.

The point is- there are plenty of examples of where mids aren't rated high enough to keep by their club (like kennedy is)- and then they go on to hit new heights elsewhere

Lol nah.

“horse didnt rate him and happily sent him packing.”

Did RTB not rate battle and send him packing? I don’t think so, if a player wants to go for money or CBAs or both, they go.

“As for neale- again, despite bnfs etc, he wasnt rated highly enough (by rtb) to stop him from leaving while contracted.”

That’s just crazy talk.
Did we not rate Plugger highly enough?

 

[True Believer]

I'm not going to buy into the issue of whether we should get Kennedy or not, because, believe it or not (despite the pages and pages of waffle) no-one has said he is coming to the Saints.

But I will ask one question, based on the assumption that Crouch is kaput - If Jack Steele

9

Jack Steele

Age

28

Ht

187cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

8.7

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

6.8

5star

CL

3.6

5star

D

21.3

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

16.8

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

11.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

6.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

was to suffer a significant injury, who would be our most senior mid?

 

[SaintersUnite]

Macrae for 43 will be done very early in the Trade Period.


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[SteeleSaints]

We haven't heard much about where our next CHB is coming from in recent times? You'd imagine it will be Tomlinson and someone else, Serong has been mentioned but hopefully we are looking at others. Stavro suggested mid season we were into an Adelaide tall defender but apart from Collingwoods interest in the Irishman, we haven't heard zip from the Crows.

 

[bird_man]

I'm not going to buy into the issue of whether we should get Kennedy or not, because, believe it or not (despite the pages and pages of waffle) no-one has said he is coming to the Saints.

But I will ask one question, based on the assumption that Crouch is kaput - If Jack Steele was to suffer a significant injury, who would be our most senior mid?

Jack Macrae

 

[tomjoad]

Bit too highbrow for Stringer, he'd be more your internet and nightclub lurker with a sideline in fake IDs I reckon

And don't forget the sleazy sly Rohypnol...

 

[CaptainRisky]

My personal issue with Kennedy (and id note i would have had zero issue with him OR Macrae) is that we just dont need that much depth of average mids, chemistry and balance and that would make so much of our core midfield group imports.

If you do the whole midfield right now

Windy, Jones (I), Crouch (I), Hill (I), Wood (I), Nas, Steele (I), Clark, Dow (I), Wilson, Henry (I), Pou, Garcia, Hotton, Ross

7/15 are imports, most playing ones. Thats gonna become 8/15 with Macrae and then 9/16 (or 8/15 if Crouch goes).

I dont have ANY issue with imports who are really performing, youd be mad to knock back an LDU or whatever but i just dont think you wanna be using so many imports for grunt/rotation roles.

It's not really how many imports you have , it's about the quality of the import and that's where we struggle to attract quality imports.
In any case your list needs a little tweek as Ross is gone , Hotton shouldn't even be in the conversation , wood and Hill are not mids and I'm not even sure nas and Wilson are mids so I'm my opinion we need another proven mid to help while our younger mids develop

 

[snails13]

I believe if 43 and third were offered Dogs would retain him as it’d not be worth. Both clubs have tons of cap space so I’m not sure if paying salary comes into the equation. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

So you guys expect ,Macrae &32 for 24 &43,yet your AA player couldn't get a finals game ahead of Harmes