List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[hangdog]

Don’t mind the Soldo pick up. Port picked up a VFL ruck from Footscray that turned out ok

WHY NOT US

He might end up like Hickey at the Swans where he suddenly decided to football good

 

[Nutsngum]

Forgot about extra rookies and the Sandy selection.

Rookie Players - AFL.com.au

Australian Football League. All the latest AFL news, video, results and information

www.afl.com.au

So we can have 6 rookies + 3 Cat B rookies.

Current Rookies:
1. Hayes
2. Hall
3. Heath
4. Caminiti
5. (Vacant)
6. (Vacant)

Current Cat B:
1. McLennan
2. O'Connell
3. (Vacant)

Primary List probable vacancies:
1. Crouch (5)
2. Ross (6)
3. Battle (26)
4. Membrey (28)
5. Alison (30)
6. Van Es (31)
7. Paton (33)
8. Bonner (36)
9. Campbell (38)
10. Hotton (39)

Other vacant numbers
37
46

I believe that whilst you can have more rookies, you're still limited to a max list size. So if we take an extra rookie you lose a spot from the main list.

On top of that there is still a maximum of 3 years allowed on the list (but I think this might be changing in the future) so I believe Heath is now on the main list.

Its incredibly confusing working out exactly who is a rookie and who isnt though as their status is never really updated when they re-sign.

 

[pebblesofsand]

It doesn't matter if he wasn't worthy of being in our top 25% 2 years ago- gags was asleep at the wheel not shuffling money around with front and backloading of battle and others to make it look like he was in our top 25% paid in 2023.

I can't think of a single other club who has EVER let a clearly best 22 player (as battle was in 2022) become an unrestricted free agent at age 25.
Anyone even half decent is ALWAYS a restricted FA (because their list managers aren't as daft as our old one and shuffle money around)

Here's the proof he was clearly best 22 when he re-signed in 2022 btw:

Battle won: Defender re-signs, question mark on veterans

Josh Battle extends his stay at Moorabbin for another two years, club turns to unsigned stars

www.afl.com.au

No other clubs have shot themselves in the foot this way before.

We have no-one but gags and ourselves to thank for the list mgt disaster that it is if we dont get band 1.

Whether Battle was starting 22 is completely irrelevant.

The question is simply did he deserve to be paid more than he was worth at the time?

Paying overs simply for the chance to possibly match a future offer for a player who may or may not actually want to stay with the club is not good list management.

Our defence is built around structures and playing someone like Tomlinson, Marchbank Caminiti instead of Battle will not have a profound effect on our defence.

And don't worry - we'll still have his compo Pick 8 to get a quality mid, save $900K per year that we can spend on Macrae for 3 years and be a much better team because of it.

 

[hangdog]

Hope Pencil Case was watching Mid week tackle.
Macrae very likely at Pick 43,says Ralphy

I miss Basket Case

 

[hangdog]

No mention of us. Carlton offering a F1 for GCs p12.

What a terrible deal for GC

 

[Spider Eater]

Enough semantics
Is it... Ivan, Evarn or McVarn Soldo?

 

[Coconut_twirl]

I still wouldn't mind getting Peatling

Future third special.

 

[SteeleSaints]

In the short term I highly doubt we will be better off without Battle in the team. Even with pick #8 as compensation that player will take time to be a consistent contributor. Then we have to find a player capable of holding down CHB.

I wonder if pushing Marshall forward falls in with the club planning to develop Caminiti at CHB. Even so we still need another backup tall defender to complete our list. Cordy s not up to it and would be delisted if he wasnt contracted for another year.

If I was managing the list I would find a way to move Cordy across to Sandringhams list and pay him out the remainder owing, just to free another list spot. We are going no where with players like him clogging list spots.

 

[BrutThough]

I'm starting to wonder if I'm not talking to gags here?

I'm no rocket surgeon- but even I know that if I've got a guy on 400k a year for 2023 and 2024... and i need it to look like he's in the top 25% of players in 2023...

Sure I try and cram say 5-600k into 2023 and the rest in 2024.

But if that still doesn't get him into the top 25% of earners in 2023...

I ring up the lowest paid guy who IS in the top 25% in 2023- and ask him to do me (and the club he wants to be successful) a favour- and agree to get paid a bit less in 2023- and we'll pay him back the missing $ in 2024.
Just like magic, suddenly battle looks like he is in the top 25% in 2023 (on his 800k 2year deal)

This kind of basic list management is why no other clubs in 12 years have had a clear best 22 25year old qualify as an unrestricted free agent.

I'm guessing it's not that easy to structure a contract and manipulate everyone else's money so that maybe 580-600k is in our top 25% while still hitting the salary cap floor.

And if it was that easy, I'm sure you would then want the current team to also take some responsibility for not fixing it given the pay rises handed out during their tenure would have pushed Battle's contract further down the pay order.

 

[akaifu]

Ivan Soldo is THE highest averaging hitouts to advantage % ruckman in the competition in 2024. Marshall is 17th

Ivan Soldo

13

Ivan Soldo

Age

28

Ht

204cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.0

2star

K

3.9

2star

HB

4.1

3star

CL

2.4

4star

HO

24.2

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

3.1

1star

HB

4.1

3star

CL

2.4

4star

HO

23.0

5star

D

6.4

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.4

3star

CL

1.6

4star

HO

21.4

5star

is the 10th-highest rated ruckman for pressure rating in 2024. Marshall is 13th

At stoppage, our midfield will improve massively with Soldo. They will get first use, and they won't be chasing tail all game. It will allow the likes of Dow and Clark, who are clearance-winning beasts at their best, to get on the front foot and play at their best

With Marshall playing more forward, it takes pressure off King and forces opposition defences to go more 1v1 rather than double-teaming King

Ross tried to play TC and Marshall in the same team, but that meant our forward pressure was one of the worst on record that night. Soldo is a massive upgrade on TC in that metric

Counterargument is that Row is a significantly better clearance ruckman than Soldo with 5.7 to 3.8. Is this really an issue though? If Soldo is consistently tapping it down the throats of his mids, why would he need to win clearances? Correct me if I'm wrong, but there isn't a single ruckman in the comp that rates elite for both hitouts to advantage and clearances, and Max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

32

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

is the only one who is above average in both

 

[OxSaint]

Soldo is best available and has shown ability as a tap ruckman that could compliment Marshall.

Targeting someone like Nick Bryan would give us a younger player with some potential but he is still an average tap ruckman and more around the ground which does not help our struggling midfield.

McRae and Soldo are cheap money all types that seem like no brainers to me.

 

[The Jack]

There will be no sub next year. Will be 5 on the bench. Clubs will play 2 rucks. Soldo is a smart decision and won’t cost what is being touted.

 

[akaifu]

In the short term I highly doubt we will be better off without Battle in the team. Even with pick #8 as compensation that player will take time to be a consistent contributor. Then we have to find a player capable of holding down CHB.

I wonder if pushing Marshall forward falls in with the club planning to develop Caminiti at CHB. Even so we still need another backup tall defender to complete our list. Cordy s not up to it and would be delisted if he wasnt contracted for another year.

If I was managing the list I would find a way to move Cordy across to Sandringhams list and pay him out the remainder owing, just to free another list spot. We are going no where with players like him clogging list spots.

Cordy's versatility and experience is keeping him on the list imo

Can play back, ruck, fwd and isn't on too much cash so is fine as a last resort depth option for either of those positions

When I watch VFL he's always pointing and directing from full back so seems to be doing ok for the developing backs

 

[Premium]

I don’t mind the second ruck as a forward I just don’t want to over-invest in talls. If it’s Max and Row as the key forwards with one of Caminiti or Sharman I can live with that (though ideally there’s only two) but if we’re playing three talls and two rucks that’s a great way to go nowhere.

Just feel the Soldo talk is just a upgrade on Campbell, plays when Marshall is out.

 

[CursingFijian]

Row Row Roh your boat, off to go Pearling, instead we catch a Macray

You should give up your day job.

 

[Premium]

Cordy's versatility and experience is keeping him on the list imo

Can play back, ruck, fwd and isn't on too much cash so is fine as a last resort depth option for either of those positions

When I watch VFL he's always pointing and directing from full back so seems to be doing ok for the developing backs

Cordy is still 27 so he got a lot left in him , he is no match winner but he can fill a void in the backline when needed

 

[geelong sajnt]

Only issue with Soldo is that although he seems to be a very very good tap ruckman in terms of hitouts to advantage, does he win enough hitouts? (54 was against Jackson; 19 vs Pies was with 50% cbas alongside Sweet)

Probably not a big issue but will be interesting to see how much improvement there is in the mids purely from an improved rate of hitout to advantage rather than quantity of hitouts

Can't wait to see how this move benefits Row and King going forward, think there is serious upside in that forward partnership topped off with Sharman. Hopefully we can maintain our forward pressure
View attachment 2120422

The other stat to pair with this is what he concedes (HTA) to the opposition ruckman. Always found that was Marshall's negative

 

[Dard Ball Get]

You should give up your day job.

I’m working on it

 

[ScrappyDo]

In the short term I highly doubt we will be better off without Battle in the team. Even with pick #8 as compensation that player will take time to be a consistent contributor. Then we have to find a player capable of holding down CHB.

I wonder if pushing Marshall forward falls in with the club planning to develop Caminiti at CHB. Even so we still need another backup tall defender to complete our list. Cordy s not up to it and would be delisted if he wasnt contracted for another year.

If I was managing the list I would find a way to move Cordy across to Sandringhams list and pay him out the remainder owing, just to free another list spot. We are going no where with players like him clogging list spots.

Alternatively, just use Hammer in defence and accept Cordy as a backup for 1 more year.
Save the $ of paying him out and save the $, trade cost and list spot for another backup defender to replace the backup defender you just paid out.

 

[Saint_Dos]

I believe that whilst you can have more rookies, you're still limited to a max list size. So if we take an extra rookie you lose a spot from the main list.

On top of that there is still a maximum of 3 years allowed on the list (but I think this might be changing in the future) so I believe Heath is now on the main list.

Its incredibly confusing working out exactly who is a rookie and who isnt though as their status is never really updated when they re-sign.

I believe the new rule is that if they have played over a certain amount of games (10 i think?) in first 3 years they need to be upgraded. Otherwise can have on rookie list for another 2 years or until the game limit is reached.
Given Heath still hasnt played a game he can stay on Rookie list for another year or 2 if he plays less than the game limit next year. Sharman would need to be upgraded if he hadnt been already.

 

[ThomasR]

Ivan Soldo is THE highest averaging hitouts to advantage % ruckman in the competition in 2024. Marshall is 17th

Soldo's HTA numbers stack up but it got me thinking

Highest HTA per ruck contest (since records began in 2012, avg >20 hitouts)
#41 Rowan Marshall 11.1%
....
#18 Ivan Soldo 13.9%
....
#5 Sean Darcy 16%
#4 Nic Naitanui 17.3%
#3 Max Gawn 17.4%
#2 Aaron Sandilands 19%
.... drumroll ....
#1 Braydon Preuss 19.03%

 

[CursingFijian]

The whole key back short supply situation has really come on in the just the last two years.

I mean the price tag on McKay and Battle would have been laughable three years ago.

Let’s be honest we’re still shaking our heads in bewilderment. Wonder what Zac Dawson

Zac Dawson

Age

38

Ht

197cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

3.4

1star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.5

3star

MG

34.4

1star

No current season stats available

D

8.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.4

4star

would be worth in the current market.

 

[AaronSCHQ]

I'm starting to wonder if I'm not talking to gags here?

I'm no rocket surgeon- but even I know that if I've got a guy on 400k a year for 2023 and 2024... and i need it to look like he's in the top 25% of players in 2023...

Sure I try and cram say 5-600k into 2023 and the rest in 2024.

But if that still doesn't get him into the top 25% of earners in 2023...

I ring up the lowest paid guy who IS in the top 25% in 2023- and ask him to do me (and the club he wants to be successful) a favour- and agree to get paid a bit less in 2023- and we'll pay him back the missing $ in 2024.
Just like magic, suddenly battle looks like he is in the top 25% in 2023 (on his 800k 2year deal)

This kind of basic list management is why no other clubs in 12 years have had a clear best 22 25year old qualify as an unrestricted free agent.

It would be dependent on the whole contract I would’ve thought, not just the single year.

 

[Train12]

No mention of us. Carlton offering a F1 for GCs p12.

We should be offering that to get 4 picks inside pick 24?

 

[TheJackal]

I may be alone in this thought but using a second rounder of any description for either Soldo or Macrae will be a shocker of a trade. They are both contracted, but both on more money than they're worth considering their position within their current clubs lists.

Best outcome for us would be Soldo for Hayes & Macrae for 43.

I'd be tempted to offer a future 2nd for Peatling should he wish to come, mainly due to age and potential.