List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[Dr Spaceman]

Hope Pencil Case was watching Mid week tackle.
Macrae very likely at Pick 43,says Ralphy

 

[PandaG]

Debuted 7 years ago. Close enough to 100 games. Half back/Midfielder. A single 30+ game. Not a single Brownlow vote, A grand tally of 19 coaches votes. 13 career goals. Averages 240 metres gained.

I mean, the more obvious question is what do the Clark boosters see?

when he plays he has a positive influence especially in the middle.
Many of those games were under a very poor coach in Ratten who thought development was exclusively a real estate term. Can only be judged under his time with Ross at the helm.

 

[St_Laz]

Sure.
Gags signed his contract at the end of 2022 (aug 22) for the 2023 and 2024 seasons.

Gags left the club in december 2022.
Any list manager worth their salt would have made it look like battle was in our top 25% in 2023- so he hit free agency in 2024 as a restricted free agent.

This post fills the rest of it in:

“Hey Josh, please sign this low level contract, but also we’re going to withhold a large portion of it to the last year, so not only does it disadvantage you because inflation reduces the value of the money, you also don’t have access to it to invest it and get a return; or even simply pay down your mortgage. Additionally, it benefits the club and disadvantages you by reducing your Free Agency rights by inflating your final year wage because we’re trying to game the system.”

WHERE DO I SIGN MR LIST MANAGER STEADIER?!?

Hindsight is 20/20, but somehow even with that benefit, your plan doesn’t even make sense.

Josh wasn’t in the top 25% of players at the time of signing the contract, and he improved in excess of what we thought he would. Good luck to him.



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[PandaG]

Richo still eating our scraps out at demon land…? Who would have thought!

 

[PandaG]

Soldo is a vastly better player than TC.

100% agree

 

[PandaG]

i didn't know that.

Amarty isnt any good…honestly sub par afl player

 

[Max the great]

Brandon Parfitt delisted by Geelong.

Worth a gander at as a DFA…

View attachment 2120526

Soon as I saw him delisted I knew someone I here would bring him up. He's a VFL footballer at best. Absolutely no way

On SM-S928B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[HeavenlySources]

43 for Macral and F3rd for Soldlow lock it in. Anything else is scare tactics.

If we aren’t targeting GC pick 12 ahead of Carlton then what are we doing. Especially if we miss out on Band 1


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[akaifu]

43 for Macral and F3rd for Soldlow lock it in. Anything else is scare tactics.

If we aren’t targeting GC pick 12 ahead of Carlton then what are we doing. Especially if we miss out on Band 1


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

We won't trade for a pick prior to the draft but its 100% a huge chance come live trading. Carlton only doing it early bc they need it for Houston otherwise they'd probs wait till live trading too

 

[stfan]

Ivan Soldo is THE highest averaging hitouts to advantage % ruckman in the competition in 2024. Marshall is 17th

Ivan Soldo is the 10th-highest rated ruckman for pressure rating in 2024. Marshall is 13th

At stoppage, our midfield will improve massively with Soldo. They will get first use, and they won't be chasing tail all game. It will allow the likes of Dow and Clark, who are clearance-winning beasts at their best, to get on the front foot and play at their best

With Marshall playing more forward, it takes pressure off King and forces opposition defences to go more 1v1 rather than double-teaming King

Ross tried to play TC and Marshall in the same team, but that meant our forward pressure was one of the worst on record that night. Soldo is a massive upgrade on TC in that metric

Counterargument is that Row is a significantly better clearance ruckman than Soldo with 5.7 to 3.8. Is this really an issue though? If Soldo is consistently tapping it down the throats of his mids, why would he need to win clearances? Correct me if I'm wrong, but there isn't a single ruckman in the comp that rates elite for both hitouts to advantage and clearances, and Max Gawn is the only one who is above average in both

Ivan Soldo also only played 8 senior games in 2024, and has never played more than 14 in a season.

If we pay a high price for him we have lost the plot.

He needs to be a value pick up trade wise. Hopefully Port are eager to get his contract off their books.

What we end up paying trade wise for both Macrae and Soldo trade wise will be most interesting. We need to not cut into our future with their acquisition. Hopefully both will be gained at good value by the Dogs and Port both wanting them off their books, and us being willing to swallow their deals. As value pickups both could be worthy.

$$$$ we have in abundance, but we very much need in my opinion bring in the best young talent we can in a draft that is fruitful in it where our current first three (assuming we get 8 for Battle) picks are.

Use the $$$ to get players like Macrae and Soldo at a discount. If not, then one needs to really question their acquisition.

Use our best picks for the best young talent, as history shows us that it is very hard for the Saints to get in starts from other clubs.

This is the year that Dalyrymple, SOS and Co really need to at the top of their games.

 

[akaifu]

Ivan Soldo also only played 8 senior games in 2024, and has never played more than 14 in a season.

If we pay a high price for him we have lost the plot.

He needs to be a value pick up trade wise. Hopefully Port are eager to get his contract off their books.

What we end up paying trade wise for both Macrae and Soldo trade wise will be most interesting. We need to not cut into our future with their acquisition. Hopefully both will be gained at good value by the Dogs and Port both wanting them off their books, and us being willing to swallow their deals. As value pickups both could be worthy.

$$$$ we have in abundance, but we very much need in my opinion bring in the best young talent we can in a draft that is fruitful in it where our current first three (assuming we get 8 for Battle) picks are.

Use the $$$ to get players like Macrae and Soldo at a discount. If not, then one needs to really question their acquisition.

Use our best picks for the best young talent, as history shows us that it is very hard for the Saints to get in starts from other clubs.

This the year that Dalyrymple, SOS and Co really need to at the top of their games.

Oh definitely agree, I'm already assuming it'll be a pick beyond 40. Our top 40 picks are almost untouchable this year in terms of trading for players. Think we'll aim for 4 in the top 40, 2 of Peckett/Cole/Hofmann, then the other on the rookie list

If Soldo costs any more than a third rounder then we're better off getting Preuss for free

 

[EddieMurphy]

Sounds great.
Except when those 'few specific matchups' happen to be against finalists and/or opponents in must win games.
Or marshall gets an injury.

If the goal is win lots of games every year and win finals- it's idiocy to put all our eggs in one basket marked "If marshall gets injured, we're screwed"

It's a miracle it hasn't bitten us on the ass thus far.
Baking in miracles to keep occuring is the opposite of how to have team success over the course of a long season.

Give me soldo rucking against a McInerney and (a fresh, not worn out) marshall forward over caminiti and marshall in a do or die final any day.

The cats play tom stewart as a midfielder and (even when in his prime) dangerfield as a fwd etc etc- good teams don't give a crap about individual brilliance.

If it can be changed to benefit the team over the course of a whole season- then there are no sacred cows.

Having marshall as our only AFL level ruckman as a concept needs to be dead and buried.

RoMa is a big midfielder. As a Ruck he is bottom of the table for hitouts to advantage. Would be great to have a real ruckman winning hitouts

 

[stfan]

Soldo is a vastly better player than TC.

Well that I agree with that. But TC is a free pick up and has been for years. Soldo will be traded for, let's hope the price is on the low side though.

Plenty of teams have picked up value rucks to perform a role. If we can get the other talent we really need, then he can perform that role. But we do not want his trade price to cause us to not land that talent.

 

[The_Steadier]

“Hey Josh, please sign this low level contract, but also we’re going to withhold a large portion of it to the last year, so not only does it disadvantage you because inflation reduces the value of the money, you also don’t have access to it to invest it and get a return; or even simply pay down your mortgage. Additionally, it benefits the club and disadvantages you by reducing your Free Agency rights by inflating your final year wage because we’re trying to game the system.”

WHERE DO I SIGN MR LIST MANAGER STEADIER?!?

Hindsight is 20/20, but somehow even with that benefit, your plan doesn’t even make sense.

Josh wasn’t in the top 25% of players at the time of signing the contract, and he improved in excess of what we thought he would. Good luck to him.



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You have it completely backwards.

The proposition that a competent list manager would have put to him would have given him more of his money up front in the first year of his 2 year deal (2023).

There is no hindsight here- history speaks for itself.
Every other club has avoided this issue in 12 years of free agency- we are the first to fall into this hole where we can't even force a trade (if the compo is rubbish) for a guy we drafted and who has been an established best 22 player for years.

I wonder why it's only us that has fallen prey to this circumstance?
Must be the 'stkilda curse' or josh battle's missus or something... couldn't possibly be any other explanation.

 

[MrFoster]

Ivan Soldo is THE highest averaging hitouts to advantage % ruckman in the competition in 2024. Marshall is 17th

Ivan Soldo is the 10th-highest rated ruckman for pressure rating in 2024. Marshall is 13th

At stoppage, our midfield will improve massively with Soldo. They will get first use, and they won't be chasing tail all game. It will allow the likes of Dow and Clark, who are clearance-winning beasts at their best, to get on the front foot and play at their best

With Marshall playing more forward, it takes pressure off King and forces opposition defences to go more 1v1 rather than double-teaming King

Ross tried to play TC and Marshall in the same team, but that meant our forward pressure was one of the worst on record that night. Soldo is a massive upgrade on TC in that metric

Counterargument is that Row is a significantly better clearance ruckman than Soldo with 5.7 to 3.8. Is this really an issue though? If Soldo is consistently tapping it down the throats of his mids, why would he need to win clearances? Correct me if I'm wrong, but there isn't a single ruckman in the comp that rates elite for both hitouts to advantage and clearances, and Max Gawn is the only one who is above average in both

Agree, Ryder is twice the ruckman Marshall is, even though Marshall gets his share of clearances, these are often blind hack kicks and more often than not chopped off by opposition.
With a proper tap ruckman, it will make it easier for our mids to get the ball first rather than chasing tails all day.

 

[Verdun]

If both Soldo and Macrae nominating the great club St Kilda is true it is great news and kudos to those at the club who have put in the work behind the scenes. Believe they will both value add and have upside.

Still a bit to play out but if we get those two, retain our picks (especially if the AFL do the right thing with the Battle pick.....I'm nervous as re this) and select some great young talent I for one am a happy chappy and believe we are well positioned.

We actually now have some exciting young talent on the list for the first time in a long time - Wilson, NWM, Owens, Windhager, Hastie, Garcia, Caminiti. Future is looking good.

 

[snails13]

No mention of us. Carlton offering a F1 for GCs p12.

And Nth offering their F1 as well

 

[Rogue Warrior]

And Nth offering their F1 as well

Why the f*** would a player in their prime go the North Melbourne

 

[austinnn]

Why the f*** would a player in their prime go the North Melbourne

Think North think if the Hawks can win finals, they can too, and they're selling it as such to Houston.

Popcorn time!

 

[snails13]

According to the brain trust of Fox Footy’s “The Midweek Tackle”, they think Saints trading a future 2nd to PA for Ivan Soldo “seems about right”.

Apparently, because Soldo is contracted for 2 more years, the Power “holds the whip hand”.

Vacuous analysis. Just because PA overpaid for Soldo they seem to think we should do the same.

Soldo wants out, is on a largish contract, is 29, and is now Port’s third choice ruck. Why in god’s name wouldn’t PA jump at the chance to cut their losses and get his salary off their books?

Especially with Lukosius offered a hefty 6 year contract.

But the kicker in their analysis was the “expert” (not Jon Ralph but the other bloke) who said that if Saints don’t pay Port’s price then PA will just keep him.

Why would PA do that? Soldo is a failed trade and he wants out. Doesn’t want to be there anymore and they don’t need him now.

Sweet has usurped him and Port have another preferred back-up ruck.

Soldo should be a salary dump where Port gets a pick to offset some of their trading losses. But it should be no better than a future third. Otherwise we should just play hard ball and move on.

Soldo is okay but not great. He is what he is. He’s never going to be better than a useful contributor.

Got drafted as a rookie in 2015 ,has played only 60 odd AFL games in that time and now possibly going to be at his third club in 3 years.As well as becoming 3rd in line at Port.Agree F3 is fair.
Maybe we involve Hayes in the deal

 

[PandaG]

He might end up like Hickey at the Swans where he suddenly decided to football good

Hickey was deplorable in their gf loss a couple years ago..bordering pathetic

 

[snails13]

Why the f*** would a player in their prime go the North Melbourne

I am stating what was said on Mid Week Tackle.
If Power don't get fair compensation then he stays.
He hasn't mentioned a club just that he wants to get back to Victoria.
Power say yes we will except that offer and more than likely get a top 3 pick next year
Why would Port care where Houston goes,they want the best pick/s they can get

 

[Klaatu]

Why the f*** would a player in their prime go the North Melbourne

Thats the attitude of a journalist, why wouldn't he go there how else are sides going to improve, so he goe's to Carlton or Collingwood or even Geelong that's not what we want to see, otherwise you keep adding to the 2 tiered comp.

 

[snails13]

If both Soldo and Macrae nominating the great club St Kilda is true it is great news and kudos to those at the club who have put in the work behind the scenes. Believe they will both value add and have upside.

Still a bit to play out but if we get those two, retain our picks (especially if the AFL do the right thing with the Battle pick.....I'm nervous as re this) and select some great young talent I for one am a happy chappy and believe we are well positioned.

We actually now have some exciting young talent on the list for the first time in a long time - Wilson, NWM, Owens, Windhager, Hastie, Garcia, Caminiti. Future is looking good.

 

[The Punter]

Can we replace "ruckman" with "tap out artist"?

Because any ruckman does more than just hit outs. Otherwise we should see what Mark Blake is doing these days.

Its more a case of Caminitti & Mitchito being moved aside for Soldo.

I don’t think Roma’s role is going to change much at all.


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I don't know what I'll do if Owens is running around at Sandy because Soldo is in the team. Caminiti I can understand (not necessarily agree with but understand) but Mitchito? Our best post-clearance contested ball winner? Might as well replace him with Bonner.