List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

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beside the seaside said:
I was reading how a committee works out the compo pick, but can then recommend a different pick based on other factors.

My feeling is the compo pick will go our way. AFL will acknowledge that we're losing an important player on large coin.
Click to expand...

The compo thing has me confused.

The way it is worded makes out that you get 1 compensation pick based on total net losses via free-agency.
Which would mean GWS should get band 1 with all the free agents they look like losing and also Membrey going could contribute to us getting band 1 as well.

Here is a snippet from the AFL site on free agent compensation:

Compensation​

A club that has a net loss of players transferring to/from other clubs as free agents in one transfer period is entitled to compensation via National Draft picks allocated by the AFL.

The compensation formula produces a points rating for players based on:

1. The new contract of the free agent;
2. The age of the free agent.

Draft picks are allocated to clubs based on the net total points for free agents lost and gained during the transfer period.

Draft picks will be allocated to one of five places:

• 1st round
• end of 1st round
• 2nd round
• end of 2nd round
• 3rd round

In applying the formula, an expert committee reviews the formula outcomes. The committee has the power to recommend alternative outcomes to GM – Football Operations where the formula produces a materially anomalous result.

​

 
stavro#4 said:
I think that they just need to point out that their “public” formula/metric hinders us with respect to random cut offs and caps.

For example, the maximum years in consideration for compo is 5.

Battle gets 6.

Battle will fall into the second tier of age as the cut off for the first tier is a birthday after October 1st.

So same age as McKay. But because Battle is a September baby and McKay is December.

One gets more points.

What will be interesting is if the contract has a built in increase - especially during the last 3-4 years. That would then increase the average that “currently starts with an 8”
Click to expand...
I also think with Bassat leading the charge about NGA, and father and sons - Brisbane getting the number 1 pick this year being a grand final side.

And

If it’s borderline, I’d be amazed if the afl said F you, here is your late first round.

Bassat would commit murder if it didn’t go our way.

We lost a player in his prime for age and if we aren’t compensated for that, then the gap gets bigger in the afl.

It’s not really in the afl’s best interest to disadvantage us ?

Looking forward to finding out next week ?
 

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Train12 said:
I also think with Bassat leading the charge about NGA, and father and sons - Brisbane getting the number 1 pick this year being a grand final side.

And

If it’s borderline, I’d be amazed if the afl said F you, here is your late first round.

Bassat would commit murder if it didn’t go our way.

We lost a player in his prime for age and if we aren’t compensated for that, then the gap gets bigger in the afl.

It’s not really in the afl’s best interest to disadvantage us ?

Looking forward to finding out next week ?
Click to expand...
I’m not worried. Infact I’d be pretty shocked if it wasn’t.

If it wasn’t band 1 it would have been ruled out by now.

If it was “that” close. I’m sure there would be some media work done from the club to sell the narrative. I mean that’s what North did last year.
 
Spider Eater said:
The compo thing has me confused.

The way it is worded makes out that you get 1 compensation pick based on total net losses via free-agency.
Which would mean GWS should get band 1 with all the free agents they look like losing and also Membrey going could contribute to us getting band 1 as well.

Here is a snippet from the AFL site on free agent compensation:

Compensation​

A club that has a net loss of players transferring to/from other clubs as free agents in one transfer period is entitled to compensation via National Draft picks allocated by the AFL.

The compensation formula produces a points rating for players based on:

1. The new contract of the free agent;
2. The age of the free agent.

Draft picks are allocated to clubs based on the net total points for free agents lost and gained during the transfer period.

Draft picks will be allocated to one of five places:

• 1st round
• end of 1st round
• 2nd round
• end of 2nd round
• 3rd round

In applying the formula, an expert committee reviews the formula outcomes. The committee has the power to recommend alternative outcomes to GM – Football Operations where the formula produces a materially anomalous result.

​

Click to expand...

You don’t get a better compo pick for losing multiple free agents. You get a separate pick for each one.

You do get compensation diluted if you pick up a free agent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Train12 said:
I also think with Bassat leading the charge about NGA, and father and sons - Brisbane getting the number 1 pick this year being a grand final side.

And

If it’s borderline, I’d be amazed if the afl said F you, here is your late first round.

Bassat would commit murder if it didn’t go our way.

We lost a player in his prime for age and if we aren’t compensated for that, then the gap gets bigger in the afl.

It’s not really in the afl’s best interest to disadvantage us ?

Looking forward to finding out next week ?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, it is not in the AFL's best interests to support the poorer clubs like ours.
The best thing for the AFL is to ensure the rich clubs stay around the top of the table to maximize revenues.
The other thing that is important for the AFL is to ensure the filler clubs, i.e. the clubs there to fill out the numbers which includes us, remain competitive so as to avoid the blowouts that no one wants to see.
Keeping a club like St Kilda happily ensconced in midtable is exactly in the AFL's best interests.
 
stavro#4 said:
Just on the entire Battle compensation scenario. Nathan Buckleys rebuttal on Sen to Tom Morris saying Band 1 would be unlikely was that Free Agency will take into consideration the average salary across the entire deal. (Not what it will be in year 1 as Tom was running with a figure in the 8s)

Assuming that the Hawks offer is a floor of 850k p/y. The salary cap is due to increase by roughly 20% from now until 2028.

Battle would have to have the worst management on the planet to not factor in a yearly wage increase.

An increase as small as 2% each year would then turn his average salary across his deal into 902k. Crossing the rumoured threshold for band 1 (needs to start with a 9).

View attachment 2121401
Click to expand...
Good point. But do you know common it is to factor the increases specifically into contracts? If I recall St Kilda and one of other teams took a specific approach a few years back when the same occurred. I can’t remember which way it went, but remember it was seen as a proactive piece of work. So presumably we covered the increases early to avoid a later issue?
 
Tommy Wigs said:
Good point. But do you know common it is to factor the increases specifically into contracts? If I recall St Kilda and one of other teams took a specific approach a few years back when the same occurred. I can’t remember which way it went, but remember it was seen as a proactive piece of work. So presumably we covered the increases early to avoid a later issue?
Click to expand...
Stkilda Essendon and westcoast to varying degrees didn’t.

Hawthorn did.
 
Joffaboy said:
Parents separated but father still lives under the same roof. Must have been difficult.
I think moreso it was him overtraining in the pre season. Was put on a modified program of just laps and set shots for over a month.
I reckon he never got going due to the combination of things both physically and mentally.
Still he wasn't a complete write off. His numbers were a bit down but still contributed.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info Joffa, poor kid.
It’s been interesting as to how he has been utilised.
RTB has bristled when asked about using him more in the midfield this year. I see him (as some others do) as a bullocking hard ball get mid who swings forward.
What role do you and/or the club see him playing in 5 years?
 
St Kilda may have to settle for less than ideal compensation for losing Josh Battle, Bulldogs are playing hardball on Macrae, Soldo wants to come to the Saints, and Tim Membrey is in limbo with little interest from Melbourne.

 
beside the seaside said:
I was reading how a committee works out the compo pick, but can then recommend a different pick based on other factors.

My feeling is the compo pick will go our way. AFL will acknowledge that we're losing an important player on large coin.
Click to expand...

This the same AFL that thought Lovett was entitled a payout because that assault claim wasn't his later assault claim as his later claimed assaults needed cash to then wind up in court for allegedly assaulting people?

You mean that AFL looking after us?

Nope, Battle wanted out, more likely is they come to us all "you have to pay his salary and give them a F1" cross their arms and give us their best pout with a smirk.
 

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TRADE ALERT

St Kilda receive Ivan Soldo.

Port Adelaide receive 2,000 bags of red pubis.


Ua2vuPy.jpeg
 
The_Steadier said:
I thought the logic was the most straightforward bit.

Bonner played almost the whole season as a halfback along with nas and sincs.

Bonner wasn't up to it, so he's gone.

The fact that bonner was given so many games this year (playing alongside at least 3 of nas/sincs/webster/stocker/mclennan/ari everyweek), i think makes it crystal clear that ross is of the opinion that he could easily fit another elite halfback (in addition to nas and sincs) into his preferred 22.

This would perfectly explain our initial interest in houston.

Why would we go cold on him though?
Folks on here are saying we went cold because the trade price got too steep

That sounds totally unlikely.
You really think SOS etc would have been surprised to learn that a contracted, dual AA halfback in his prime would cost a top 10 pick or more?

If we have put our hand up for him, but now pulled out of the race- there must be something else going on I think.

*Maybe we've got a better big fish lined up?
*Maybe Houston told us he's not interested in us? (no matter how much money we can offer)
*Maybe it's like I suggested- and we were only interested in Houston if we have pick 8... and a little birdie at AFL HQ told us we wont get it?

I think it's totally illogical to think that we had initially started pursuing houston, then pulled out because:
A. We were surprised he would cost a top 10 pick +; or
B. We changed our minds and decided that we want to go with ari or mclennan or whoever to take bonners spot.

If our strategy really is to fill bonners spot with someone we already have, we never would have started pursuing houston at all.
Click to expand...


I was referring to linking "Just realised bonner played 19 games this year".

to

"That makes me very nervous about battles compo not being pick 8".

No logic there at all.
 
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I'm not in the Soldo fan club yet. I get the need to find a Roma back up and we have been blessed that he's managed to play just about every game since Ryder left.

IMO Soldo is a step up from TC - Just. Comments that he's a 100% improvement on Campbell are misguided. Be prepared to be disappointed if that's your opinion.

My biggest concern is the impact a player like Soldo will have on the futures of players like Heath and Keeler. I really wish we'd have given them a taste of senior footy late in the season when we started to get our act together.

I know those that watch a lot of Sandy will simply say they haven't done enough in the VFL but sometimes you've got to take the risk and let the young guys play with more experienced heads in the big time.

I've always thought if you wait for a player to knock the doors down playing at Sandy you'll wait a bloody long time. Senior players like Membrey, Clark, Jones, Dow and Butler hardly set the world on fire at Sandy.

I'm okay with the Soldo recruitment as a Marshall support/back up as long as it comes at low cost and doesn't stymie the development of Heath and Keeler.
 
SinCitySainter said:
Unfortunately, it is not in the AFL's best interests to support the poorer clubs like ours.
The best thing for the AFL is to ensure the rich clubs stay around the top of the table to maximize revenues.
The other thing that is important for the AFL is to ensure the filler clubs, i.e. the clubs there to fill out the numbers which includes us, remain competitive so as to avoid the blowouts that no one wants to see.
Keeping a club like St Kilda happily ensconced in midtable is exactly in the AFL's best interests.
Click to expand...
We all know other clubs / media / supporters don't want to lose a position in the draft so you will here the comments that Battle is not worth pick 8.
However due to his age and length of contract and St Kilda and said to of offered 900k we will certainly get pick 8 - if we were not getting it you would of heard an uproar already.
Just hope we use it wisely.
 
malevu said:
I'm not in the Soldo fan club yet. I get the need to find a Roma back up and we have been blessed that he's managed to play just about every game since Ryder left.

IMO Soldo is a step up from TC - Just. Comments that he's a 100% improvement on Campbell are misguided. Be prepared to be disappointed if that's your opinion.

My biggest concern is the impact a player like Soldo will have on the futures of players like Heath and Keeler. I really wish we'd have given them a taste of senior footy late in the season when we started to get our act together.

I know those that watch a lot of Sandy will simply say they haven't done enough in the VFL but sometimes you've got to take the risk and let the young guys play with more experienced heads in the big time.

I've always thought if you wait for a player to knock the doors down playing at Sandy you'll wait a bloody long time. Senior players like Membrey, Clark, Jones, Dow and Butler hardly set the world on fire at Sandy.

I'm okay with the Soldo recruitment as a Marshall support/back up as long as it comes at low cost and doesn't stymie the development of Heath and Keeler.
Click to expand...

Im still not convinced Heath makes it at all. The club only gave him a 1 year contract for a reason and Keeler is more a key forward who can pinch hit in the ruck. IMO we have really missed the boat with recruiting other young ruckman (plural). The reliance on Marshall has been unhealthy since Ryder retired, we tried to recruit others eg Xerri and TDK but in the interim we should have been grabbing kids. The number of good young ruckman that can be had late in drafts even makes our list management look more stupid than it has been.
 
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malevu said:
I'm not in the Soldo fan club yet. I get the need to find a Roma back up and we have been blessed that he's managed to play just about every game since Ryder left.

IMO Soldo is a step up from TC - Just. Comments that he's a 100% improvement on Campbell are misguided. Be prepared to be disappointed if that's your opinion.

My biggest concern is the impact a player like Soldo will have on the futures of players like Heath and Keeler. I really wish we'd have given them a taste of senior footy late in the season when we started to get our act together.

I know those that watch a lot of Sandy will simply say they haven't done enough in the VFL but sometimes you've got to take the risk and let the young guys play with more experienced heads in the big time.

I've always thought if you wait for a player to knock the doors down playing at Sandy you'll wait a bloody long time. Senior players like Membrey, Clark, Jones, Dow and Butler hardly set the world on fire at Sandy.

I'm okay with the Soldo recruitment as a Marshall support/back up as long as it comes at low cost and doesn't stymie the development of Heath and Keeler.
Click to expand...
Agree with this , but I'm wondering if they get Soldo they are writing off Hayes.
Because I have heard nothing about Hayes getting a contract and Paton another.
Seems strange because we are closing in on the trade period - is it because they know they are being moved on.
 
stavro#4 said:
Josh Battle's six-year deal at Hawthorn will net St Kilda either a first-round selection or end-of-first-round pick, with the contract expected to be on the verge of the band on grading. That would hand the Saints picks No.7 and 8.

- Cal Twomey 😍😍

Click to expand...

The next sentence; But if it falls short, the pick will come in at the end of the first round.

Nothing new. No one knows yet what it will be.
 
BrutThough said:
The next sentence; But if it falls short, the pick will come in at the end of the first round.

Nothing new. No one knows yet what it will be.
Click to expand...
Yes, but read my bold. Twomey is now talking about what is expected. That’s a key phrase not used prior.

“with the contract expected to be on the verge of the band on grading. That would hand the Saints picks No.7 and 8”
 
stfan said:
I was referring to linking "Just realised bonner played 19 games this year".

to

"That makes me very nervous about battles compo not being pick 8".

No logic there at all.
Click to expand...

The answer to where the logic lies was in the rest of the post.

I reckon there's not much logic to only reading half a post before declaring it is illogical.
But that's just me i spose.

The whole post isn't exactly war and peace lol

The_Steadier said:
Just realised bonner played 19 games this year.

That makes me very nervous about battles compo not being pick 8.

Us playing bonner so much this year (despite him not being very good) tells me that ross thinks there is plenty of room in our side for another half back (alongside nas and sincs).

Us seemingly dropping out of the race for houston a week or two ago could well be off the back of getting informal word from the AFL that it's not band 1 for battle.

Hope I'm wrong, but it doesn't add up that we wouldn't be (at very least) putting our hand up for houston if we thought we were a good chance at having pick 8.
Click to expand...
 
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