List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[g_TRAIN]

Think today showed how little rucks actually matter in the AFL atm.

Just need a big bloke who is competitive in ruck contests and can throw his weight around.

Unpopular opinion but I for one agree with this.

I think its so dumb people are crying out for a "Good" tap ruckman.

As if tap work actually makes much difference at all. Its been proven time and again that it doesn't.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Marshall is around the All Australian talks, not because he's a good ruckman, but what he does around that contest.
I do wonder what our team would look like with a highly competent ruck, I do think they are overrated though. Even won ruck contests don't really push the ball in a positive spot most of the time.

Probably make stuff all difference to our clearances.

Good mids and elite tap rucks are the only thing that make a difference.

The quote "Good" ones are really not good enough to move the needle.

 

[Miha]

Unpopular opinion but I for one agree with this.

I think its so dumb people here are crying out for a "Good" tap ruckman.

As if tap work actually makes much difference at all. Its been proven time and again that it doesn't.

You often see the ruckman’s tap of the ball land to an oppo midfielder and win the clearance

 

[g_TRAIN]

You often see the ruckman’s tap of the ball land to an oppo midfielder and win the clearance

Yep and half the time the "amazing" tap work that the commentators call out on occasions is pure fluke of which more credit goes to the midfielder in my opinion.

 

[stavro#4]

Unpopular opinion but I for one agree with this.

I think its so dumb people here are crying out for a "Good" tap ruckman.

As if tap work actually makes much difference at all. It’s been proven time and again that it doesn't.

Disagree.

A bang average ruck who can half the contest just shows that an elite midfield can still dominate.

A good tap ruckman can be worth a few extra scores a week due to their tap work.

A shit tap ruckman and a good follower (Marshall) could be your teams best or second best player

But a ruckman who can impact around the ground and has elite tapwork is a match winner.

See Gawn Cox Spider

 

[g_TRAIN]

Disagree.

A bang average ruck who can half the contest just shows that an elite midfield can still dominate.

A good tap ruckman can be worth a few extra scores a week due to their tap work.

A shit tap ruckman and a good follower (Marshall) could be your teams best or second best player

But a ruckman who can impact around the ground and has elite tapwork is a match winner.

See Gawn Cox Spider

I don't know mate. Its been looked at a fair bit in the past and from what I can tell never been supported with stats.

So it must be one of those intangible kind of things you can't measure.

I personally don't really believe it makes a big difference. I think it makes a difference when they are elite but just plain good I don't think its a huge deal.

Gawn, Cox, Spider, Nic Nat etc.. They were all at the elite end

 

[beside the seaside]

Brisbane's midfield is the best in the comp. A line like that can make a difference in a big game as it did today. Sydney's midfield is showy but Brisbane's just gets it done. Accumulators can be gold. That's why I think Macrae will be a great pickup for us.

I think you need a balance of types in the midfield. Pou can hopefully end up a burst game changing mid, but I'd love to get Brayshaw who I think just gets it done a la Neale.

We have to patiently keep adding to that line however we can.

 

[stavro#4]

I don't know mate. Its been looked at a fair bit in the past and from what I can tell never been supported with stats.

So it must be one of those intangible kind of things you can't measure.

I personally don't really believe it makes a big difference. I think it makes a difference when they are elite but just plain good I don't think its a huge deal.

Gawn, Cox, Spider, Nic Nat etc.. They were all at the elite end

But isn’t that the point?

If you have an elite ruck they are a genuine match winner and difference maker.

You could file everything else under Meh.

Using the same argument. We should trade Marshall for the best mid we can find. Soldo should be able to half enough contest and an elite mid would contribute more.

But most supporters wouldn’t do that. So are they stupid or is there more to it with rucks who aren’t in that Elite end?

 

[Dr Spaceman]

When do we hear about the Battle compensation.

 

[g_TRAIN]

But isn’t that the point?

If you have an elite ruck they are a genuine match winner and difference maker.

You could file everything else under Meh.

Using the same argument. We should trade Marshall for the best mid we can find. Soldo should be able to half enough contest and an elite mid would contribute more.

But most supporters wouldn’t do that. So are they stupid or is there more to it with rucks who aren’t in that Elite end?

My opinion is Marshall is good enough to halve the contest or at least compete at a level that would allow a good quality midfield to get to work.

I'm not against Soldo at the right price but I think the improvement we are looking for around the contest and clearance will come as our midfield group develops and its going to be much more related to that than any ruck we might have.

 

[MrFoster]

My opinion is Marshall is good enough to halve the contest or at least compete at a level that would allow a good quality midfield to get to work.

I'm not against Soldo at the right price but I think the improvement we are looking for around the contest and clearance will come as our midfield group develops and its going to be much more related to that than any ruck we might have.

Clearances are more effective when the mids are on the move, if the ruckman can hit the ball to their advantage, then it helps. Unfortunately Marshall’s weakness is his tap work, our mids are pretty much flat footed most of the time or reactive / 2nd to the ball, that’s why we’re after Soldo, but needs to be at the right price I guess

 

[g_TRAIN]

Clearances are more effective when the mids are on the move, if the ruckman can hit the ball to their advantage, then it helps. Unfortunately Marshall’s weakness is his tap work, our mids are pretty much flat footed most of the time or reactive / 2nd to the ball, that’s why we’re after Soldo, but needs to be at the right price I guess

I agree with everything apart from the last bit. I especially agree with your point around being on the move but you can still do that when your losing the taps.

So Soldo may be better than Marshall with his tap work but I still think unless our mids actually improve (Which hopefully they do) then they will still be flat footed and reactive and it won't significantly improve our clearance situation.

 

[BrutThough]

Unpopular opinion but I for one agree with this.

I think its so dumb people are crying out for a "Good" tap ruckman.

As if tap work actually makes much difference at all. Its been proven time and again that it doesn't.

Spot on.

Marshall adds so much around the ground and in clearance himself. The thought of moving him out of the spot that he impacts the most so someone can tap the ball slightly more makes zero sense.

 

[geelong sajnt]

A good ruckman stops the opposition getting hits to advantage, that's half the battle. But Brisbane showed that a gun midfield beats it...

 

[Moral Decay]

I'm interested in Soldo's athletic profile, can he run well and will he run in both directions? What's his football smarts like, can he work to a team plan?

If anyone can tell me I'd love to know.

Because to my eyes Campbells main problem was that he just couldn't move well enough to make anything more than the ruck contest itself, as soon as the ball came to ground it was away and he couldn't get to either the next contest or provide defensive pressure.

Max's problems seem to be footy smarts and no tank, he's immensely willing and can ruck but beyond being a mark and kick he's limited.

Soldo may not be the ruck we want, but we need better than the current back up and we need him on the park. If there's a better option that we can get I'm all ears because I haven't heard of one yet.

 

[hangdog]

If Daniher is actually retiring i could see Brisbane making an offer to Membrey.

 

[CursingFijian]

The bigger takeaway from that GF for me is that Grundy is close to cooked, not that rucks don’t matter.

At the very least 204cm, 28 yo Canned Solo is a medium term depth upgrade on 201cm 32 yo Tom Campbell

38

Tom Campbell

Age

33

Ht

201cm

Wt

108kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.1

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

4.8

3star

CL

1.6

4star

HO

17.0

5star

D

5.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

2.0

1star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

2.0

5star

D

7.2

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

3.0

3star

CL

1.2

4star

HO

13.2

5star

.

In terms of actual tap outs there is very little difference between the two.

But Soldos clearance work, scoreboard impact and defensive pressure is better.

Having the big man on our list means that as a squad we are way more versatile and have a far better capacity to react to the impact of rule changes, or tactical changes that occur in the AFL all the time.

The best scenario for us is that Max Heath starts cashing in his potential and brings the receipts. But until that happens we need a backstop, and Soldo is good enough to be that for 3-5 years.

It’s a no brainer imo. Future pick swaps is reasonable, no need to play hardball on this transaction. Just get it done early and go back to focusing on improving our draft hand.

 

[Spider Eater]

I'm interested in Soldo's athletic profile, can he run well and will he run in both directions? What's his football smarts like, can he work to a team plan?

If anyone can tell me I'd love to know.

Because to my eyes Campbells main problem was that he just couldn't move well enough to make anything more than the ruck contest itself, as soon as the ball came to ground it was away and he couldn't get to either the next contest or provide defensive pressure.

Max's problems seem to be footy smarts and no tank, he's immensely willing and can ruck but beyond being a mark and kick he's limited.

Soldo may not be the ruck we want, but we need better than the current back up and we need him on the park. If there's a better option that we can get I'm all ears because I haven't heard of one yet.

It's impossible for anyone to say until his body is fully excavated.

 

[thekizzler]

Next year 5 on the bench , the reason they are looking for a 2nd ruck - most teams will be playing 2 rucks by the sounds of it.
Marshall will play 70% as the ruckman , his marking around the ground is one of the best parts about his game, whoever is the 2nd ruckman will only give him a break - thats all the spud will be used for.
To tell you the truth I feel Heath or Keller would be a better option playing forward.

Soldo is not going to help our midfield too much , Campbell by all accounts was a better ruckman than him looking at VFL stats

There is 0% chance that Tom Campbell is a better AFL footballer than Ivan Soldo. I'm not saying Soldo is a gun, or any negative feelings toward Campbell, who works his ass off. But he is just a better player.

 

[RonDogsSainters]

Now that that shit show is out of the way bring on the draft and trade week! #Flagsaints26

 

[Dr Spaceman]

If Daniher is actually retiring i could see Brisbane making an offer to Membrey.

Sydney could do with him back.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I can't see Tim leaving Victoria.

 

[SaintKing23]

People unwilling to see us cough up a future 2nd for the soldering iron see him coming to be nothing more than a direct campbell replacement (ie only getting a game if roma gets injured)

Future 2nd for soldo (worst case), I think is fine if you think there is scope for him in our team to be more than just the new campbell.

He will be better than Campbell in what he can provide but a F2 is definitely overs. Being better than a dominant vfl ruck who didn't quite make it at afl level doesn't mean we should go paying overs.

 

[Yawkey way]

I don't know mate. Its been looked at a fair bit in the past and from what I can tell never been supported with stats.

So it must be one of those intangible kind of things you can't measure.

I personally don't really believe it makes a big difference. I think it makes a difference when they are elite but just plain good I don't think its a huge deal.

Gawn, Cox, Spider, Nic Nat etc.. They were all at the elite end

They all marked the ball and spoiled well. In an ideal world you’d have great mids and an elite ruckman, forced to choose it’s no choice at all.

 

[holllywood]

Was with some people with Richmond connections at GF day so I’ll pass on what I was told for your Sunday morning reading (dis)pleasure;

Richmond likely to get pick 6 and more for Rioli. Perfect storm for Richmond: former coach, wants to win now instead of hitting the draft and GC have great draft capital.

I feel like I’ve been gaslight by the media saying Rioli is worth pick 6 in the draft but there you go.

Ivan also not a big fan of Adelaide as well, not just his missus. Boring city and as a result, a big punting culture within the team (nothing else to do?).