List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread

[gringo2011]

Exactly, so we need to go back to basics with drafting and recruiting in some proper talent where the core of our list and its profile will bring success. This includes having some faith in the current setup and footy department to develop results over time - I get that’s hard but by your account, the issues your highlighting don’t get resolved over night, it takes time.

And, how are dropping down the ladder for a sustained period? I’m going to go off actuals and facts, we played finals less than 12 months ago.

If you are moving on Battle and Howard, cutting guys like Ross, Paton and Membrey, we'll be a lot more exposed to injury and form. We are also culling the good players in the middle age bracket which is already very thin and once you get guys like Wilkie, Hill, Steele, Wood, Crouch, Sinclair etc you'll fall off a cliff unless the kids are all absolute superstars.

 

[gringo2011]

Ari wouldnt be any worse than when Battle first went into defence. short term pain for long term gain.

Ari also seems to have a far superior defensive skill set compared to battle at the same age as well, let alone his boot.

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That's not even true but what ever. Ari is good at everything but the defensive stuff.

 

[gringo2011]

if battle was a midfielder this argument would make sense, but he's not. We need mids, our backline is still solid sans battle

Why make a hole to fill a hole?

 

[gringo2011]

Bassat gave an honest an upfront appraisal and commentary of where we are and where we are going. It is childish to stamp your feet and demand that all from the board are to be sacked, simply because you need instant gratification.

Yes we have waited years, but where we are now and want to go, that is totally irrelevant. Now is about what we need to do, to move forward. With Tasmania coming we are loading up on youth, hooray. Plus finally having a president who demands change from the AFL to stop the father / son, academy, free agency rorting that is an huge advantage to the larger clubs.

I have waited decades for our second flag, having been to 1971, 1997, 2009 and 2010 defeats and now retired and travelling, but I am happy to wait a little longer and enjoy the trading, recruiting, development and then revel in our time in the sun again, before our second flag.

The whining and complaining from a number on here, that all is not as you want it, truly does become tiresome and unnecessary. You see what you are seeking. Look for problems and misery and they are there. Look for the positives, green shots of development and promise and they are there too. Go Saints.

We are so far behind by the time we start and really haven't got much to feel confident about. You can't draft your way out of this and bottoming out like North did while Tassie comes in is exactly what we did when GWS and the Suns were coming in. We can demand standards. We pay our memberships so own a stake in the club. It's dangerous for any organisation to ignore their stakeholders.


We deserve some level of accountability for 14 years of failure. I have just as much right to complain about the club as you feel to complain about my posts.

 

[gringo2011]

A great post there Sunshine Sainter.

We live in an "instant gratification" society.

And as you say above......we naturally want it with our footy side....that incredibly elusive 2nd big shiny cup.

I like you have been waiting about 100 years....lol.

I ain't getting any younger !!!!!!!

The one thing that "Fred" has been consistent about is that there will be no short cuts this time.

Loved his interview with the "Lord of the Scotch"

Great that we now have a Prez who is speaking out....loudly....about the inequalities of the AFL "free enterprise system"

Prez admits that he wasn't hands on enough pre Ratts getting the DCM.....he simply trusted his Lieutenants getting the correct info to him....ummmm !!!!

We simply have to "get it right" this time with Tassie on the Horizon.....I can almost taste the delicious draft concessions etc that they will receive.......ala GWS and GC when they entered the comp(we picked an awesome time to bottom out back in 2013/2014....NOT !!!! )

Saints fans are anything but instant gratification. Most of the same people went on the same attacks when I suggested that trading our picks for old guys when we hadn't drafted was a bad idea.

I have always advocated for steady conservative list building. At the moment we flip flop on gambling on the draft or gambling on trades. Stability would be holding a core together, using your high picks at the draft and trying to find free agency and trades that don't interrupt the drafting with high picks.

If a star like LDU or someone with years left and ideal traits cones up you lose the reins a bit and go for it. If a kid pushes another good player out and you get a surplus of talent you can think about cashing them in. At the moment we have got an okay group of kids coming through but only Nas is absolutely elite and older talent. We have a few obvious holes like a Crouch replacement, a small forward and a bit more midfield injury cover.

 

[The Slug]

2/ That our efforts with making our club a very good environment for indigenous players may give us a rare edge with securing him. An edge we simply do not normally have with most FAs we chase

Good point. Thinking back to Hill and Ryder, Nas re-signing and Henry wanting in. I hope we keep down this path and look for unique angles to attract talent as we can't compete with the draw cards of the bigger clubs.

 

[gubby88]

That's not even true but what ever. Ari is good at everything but the defensive stuff.

battle wasnt exactly great at the defensive stuff when he first moved there.

but lets not let that get on the way of a good conversation now should we

one would argue that someone who has spent their whole junior career as a defender would have a generally higher scope than someone who played their junior career in another position

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[gringo2011]

battle wasnt exactly great at the defensive stuff when he first moved there.

but lets not let that get on the way of a good conversation now should we

one would argue that someone who has spent their whole junior career as a defender would have a generally higher scope than someone who played their junior career in another position

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I can't be bothered arguing with you campaigners anymore. We could sell Nas and King for Rory Lobb and most of the forum would be jerking themselves into a lather.

 

[Joffaboy]

By the time a drafted inside mid comes on the old guys will all be ready to retire anyway. We need to keep drafting but finding some midfielders for now.

Keeping Battle and getting Stengle covers the hole in the mid age bracket that will be a cliff coming.

Don't know about that. Draftees these days are much more developed than even a decade ago and can come on in the first season.

And of course while they might not come on like Reid, they can contribute with limited minutes in the middle while our players like Windy, Chito, Pou, Wilson etc have that more experience and get better in the guts.

So yes an inside mid from the draft takes time and is not a cure all, but it is also not linear. Say Windy and Wilson have a breakout next year, Pou finds a bit of form, Clark is injury free and we have two excellent young mids also contributing. It could fast track them.

However I do concede the other possibility could happen.

Meanwhile I am death riding the Saints all the way to the end of the season and cheering on the Mighty Adelaide Crows.

 

[gubby88]

I can't be bothered arguing with you campaigners anymore. We could sell Nas and King for Rory Lobb and most of the forum would be jerking themselves into a lather.

no we wouldnt, but we would be watching you have an open ended aneurysm because the wind changed direction

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[Joffaboy]

I can't be bothered arguing with you campaigners anymore. We could sell Nas and King for Rory Lobb and most of the forum would be jerking themselves into a lather.

Come on gringo, you point out that others can't cope with your opinion, you are doing the same thing here. Gubby has his opinion (which I tend to agree with).
His point was valid, Battle was recruited as a forward (I remember him kicking 5 in the u18 all star game the year he was drafted.). He was then tried on a wing but transitioned well into a very capable backman. There is no arguing that he is now valuable as a backman otherwise he would not be getting offers from elsewhere on such big coin.
To say Arie cant defend is just incorrect. His intercept marking in the VFL has been a feature and he has played as a backman I think most of his footy life. Was recruited as a backman, well as a free hit @62 because he was too good to pass up.
Is Arie as good as Battle. Currently no, he has played one game of AFL and has a lot to learn. Personally I would like to see both him and Battle in the same team.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

I can't be bothered arguing with you campaigners anymore. We could sell Nas and King for Rory Lobb and most of the forum would be jerking themselves into a lather.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

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The great thing about pick 6 would be the ability to potentially draft someone as good as Battle.

Good key position players are harder to come by. And at only 25y.o, Battle's best years, should be still to come.

 

[MrFoster]

He is more of an outside midfielder though like Hill and Henry, we need more inside midfielders like Lachie Neale, Dunkley or LDU.

Exactly, we keep thinking what we need is outside polish when the real problem is inside class and mids that can find the ball themselves / link up with other mids..

That’s why Hill, Bonner and Nas to a less extend will really thrive once we have a proper midfield.

 

[akaifu]

Thoughts on having a sniff at the lad that lost us the Giants game earlier this year, James Peatling? Has been a good performer for the Giants but they've got so much midfield depth he keeps getting pushed out to VFL or sub. Well-rounded midfielder who can also play half forward and wing. Played 2 VFL games this year for 25 and 31 disposals, kicking 3 and 2 goals. Has 27 disposals at 3QT today in the VFL. Could possibly get him for a 3rd rounder or late second. 23 yrs old

 

[Miha]

Thoughts on having a sniff at the lad that lost us the Giants game earlier this year, James Peatling? Has been a good performer for the Giants but they've got so much midfield depth he keeps getting pushed out to VFL or sub. Well-rounded midfielder who can also play half forward and wing. Played 2 VFL games this year for 25 and 31 disposals, kicking 3 and 2 goals. Has 27 disposals at 3QT today in the VFL. Could possibly get him for a 3rd rounder or late second. 23 yrs old View attachment 2033569

That’s some tidy recruiting

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I reckon you’ve forgotten how shit Hill was in his first few seasons here

And he was still vastly better than Newnes.


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[littlecreatures]

If you are moving on Battle and Howard, cutting guys like Ross, Paton and Membrey, we'll be a lot more exposed to injury and form. We are also culling the good players in the middle age bracket which is already very thin and once you get guys like Wilkie, Hill, Steele, Wood, Crouch, Sinclair etc you'll fall off a cliff unless the kids are all absolute superstars.

Paton is lucky to play 3 games a year, Membrey impacts maybe one in 5 or so games, Ross the same and can’t keep up with the speed of the game. Not sure how we benefit from getting games into them, would rather see Hastie, Caminiti and Hugo get a crack.

Battle and Howard there is clearly more water to go under the bridge before we start making assessments on them. And first I’ve heard that we’re moving Battle on unless you know something we don’t. By all reports he’s had a contract in front of him all year, that’s hardly getting moved on.

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

Josh Battle

26

Josh Battle

Age

25

Ht

193cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

196.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

142.8

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

175.6

3star

is a good third tall. He is a very poor defender, he gets exposed in 1v1 defensive contests, a lot of this has to do with his total lack of speed. I certainly wouldn’t be overpaying to keep him, if another club is offering him 6 years at $800k then I’m more than comfortable taking the compensation.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I'd be happy if we pay him 6 years. He's kind of durable , and reminds me of Jason Blake

Jason Blake

Age

43

Ht

189cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

6.3

2star

HB

6.8

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

2.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.2

4star

in some ways.

 

[Remboy]

Is Arie as good as Battle. Currently no, he has played one game of AFL and has a lot to learn. Personally I would like to see both him and Battle in the same team.

So you want to trade Ari to Hawthorn?

 

[stavro#4]

I can't be bothered arguing with you campaigners anymore. We could sell Nas and King for Rory Lobb and most of the forum would be jerking themselves into a lather.

Mate, people want direction and a plan. Reading between the lines of that interview yesterday.

The president effectively conceded we don’t have the talent to match the top 4 sides. He made mention of not wanting to be a side who makes the bottom part of the 8th for a short time and can’t compete.

He said he is happy for this to take longer than anticipated to make sure it isn’t underbaked.

Now if it’s going to take longer (which in itself is an issue for you) you need to prune the top of your list to keep feeding the growth from below. (Which is another issue for you).

Now you clearly aren’t happy with this direction. So tell us what the plan should be. Because there isn’t some gun free agent we can land that improves our midfield that can move us into the top 4.

It looks like retaining Battle. Landing Stengle and a top 5 pick at best.

Unfortunately unless that pick is Chris Judd. It doesn’t move us into contention in 2025.

So what options are you actually proposing. Because we effectively got the plan yesterday and you hate it.

 

[StCicatriz]

Geez Prez is gonna cop some heat over that


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I appreciate the honesty tbh

 

[StCicatriz]

I think we should have offered McCluggage more, exactly the player we need, has been enormous in Brisbanes recovery those last few weeks

He was never leaving and if he was why would it be us?

Any long term deal means any club can match any offer.

He'd go to the pies or essendon. A club who can do more offield.

 

[StCicatriz]

I think the rubber stamp comment reflects his biggest learning- he’s being honest
He strikes me as though he previously backed in his footy dept….git sold a turd “almost in the window…” and then realised he had to get closer cause he/Board were being fed Shiit
Indictment? Probably
I’ll take the honesty as long as the learning and actions to go with it make sense
Right now I see a Board/Pres/Coach on same page that’ll do me

Correct. Worth noting he went hands on after work commitments changed.

I find the constant defence of poor ceo footy gms list managers frustrating.

Finnis wasn't a good football club ceo.
Lethers wasn't either. Wasn't a good footy gm.
Trout was terrible. Libba worse. Toce although better still under whelming.
Rath horrible.

Gags and cox the worst appointments I've seen. Just terrible.

Hopefully we can do better moving forward.

Hopefully bassat can get some outcomes from the AFL.