List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread

[SaintsSeptember]

The idea to trade salary cap space is an awful one.

It helps clubs avoid the minimum, which can be an issue.
If Saints were struggling to spend the minimum, would you rather give a pay rise to our players ( for the wonderful work this year ) or buy a draft pick?

 

[gringo2011]

The idea to trade salary cap space is an awful one.

Designed to help keep players at Sydney, Goldy and GWS when they get over stuffed.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

When they first brought in future trading, i thought, righto, the dumb clubs will trade out their future picks, then the following year they'll be crying because they don't have any.
Of course we were one of the dumb ones, i think we didn't have a second round pick for most of a decade, or if we did it was because we traded more out than the second round pick we got in.

 

[stavro#4]

Designed to help keep players at Sydney, Goldy and GWS when they get over stuffed.

How many guns have been forced out in the last 10 years?

Treloar?

 

[The Punter]

It helps clubs avoid the minimum, which can be an issue.
If Saints were struggling to spend the minimum, would you rather give a pay rise to our players ( for the wonderful work this year ) or buy a draft pick?

Abolish the minimum.

But the AFL remains committed to trying to make things that are fundamentally broken and can never work, less bad (see Father-Son rule).

 

[gringo2011]

Elite or high quality mids have been and are always the minimum requirement for teams to become serious challengers. The zone rules have only heightened this, thats why teams with strong midfields have always flourished.

I dont think anyone can seriously debate otherwise, its just the players involvement of how we acheive it that is causing some to dig their heals in with contrary ararguements. Being a little pig headed perhaps....

I dont want to lose Battle and have made it clear, but if the club believes thats the best way to expedite our midfield improvement then we have to embrace the decision.

Only that’s bullshit. A drafted mid won’t carry our midfield for 3 to 5 years. It’s just buying time. Good sides don’t water down their talent pools to gamble. We don’t have 3 to 5 years to wait. Make LDU an insane offer or start to try to pick off a fringe mid at another club. No one thinks that we don’t need mids but cutting off your foot so that you can afford shoes isn’t a plan.

 

[gringo2011]

How many guns have been forced out in the last 10 years?

Treloar?

GWS have lost heaps. Gold Coast need to hold together their list and don’t need picks so I reckon it’s designed to save them. Sydney about to need relief too.

 

[BrutThough]

Posting this here because Ross gives some journos a whack over the Marshall rumours and then takes down the whole Academy system.

https://www.saints.com.au/video/1586487/lyons-push-for-fairness-in-academies-new-defensive-mix?videoId=1586487&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1719535350001

 

[kernelT]

Surely we’ll develop a couple of A grade mids out of Wilson, Nas, Windhager, Owens, Phillipou and this years first pick?

I don’t reckon we need to get too cute about letting a player like Battle go when we have ample cap space to keep him.

If you look our recent history of trades and drafts, the common thread in all the ****-ups is that we haven’t kept it simple…

 

[stavro#4]

Posting this here because Ross gives some journos a whack over the Marshall rumours and then takes down the whole Academy system.

https://www.saints.com.au/video/1586487/lyons-push-for-fairness-in-academies-new-defensive-mix?videoId=1586487&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1719535350001

Ahahahahahaha

Cleary ****ing shits himself

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Abolish the minimum.

But the AFL remains committed to trying to make things that are fundamentally broken and can never work, less bad (see Father-Son rule).

I'm sure the AFL would abolish the minimum, but the AFLPA want it , even though it doesn't really help their rank and file memebers.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Ahahahahahaha

Cleary ****ing shits himself

Someone phoned into SEN the other day, saying he thought that North were ahead of StKilda and that Battle might be going to the Hawks etc.
Forget who the SEN guy was but came back with how many Premierships Hawks had won, then comes back with "maybe North have run things better than StKilda " Nearly threw up at that.

 

[stavro#4]

Someone phoned into SEN the other day, saying he thought that North were ahead of StKilda and that Battle might be going to the Hawks etc.
Forget who the SEN guy was but came back with how many Premierships Hawks had won, then comes back with "maybe North have run things better than StKilda " Nearly threw up at that.

They have won 1 game and have a % of 63

They have stock piled mids and have little outside of that bar Larkey Curtis and Zurhuur - I’ll throw in Comben too.

 

[stavro#4]

Surely we’ll develop a couple of A grade mids out of Wilson, Nas, Windhager, Owens, Phillipou and this years first pick?

I don’t reckon we need to get too cute about letting a player like Battle go when we have ample cap space to keep him.

If you look our recent history of trades and drafts, the common thread in all the ****-ups is that we haven’t kept it simple…

But if they decided we needed to let someone go because we would get over his value.

Then Battle makes sense. We effectively have players who we can work on blooding into his role.

 

[gringo2011]

They have won 1 game and have a % of 63

They have stock piled mids and have little outside of that bar Larkey Curtis and Zurhuur - I’ll throw in Comben too.

They have got to the point where they have heaps of talent but no leaders or guides. They need to find a Luke Hodge type to help the kids come through. Probably 2 to 3 seasons off a consistent top 8 side otherwise.

 

[gringo2011]

But if they decided we needed to let someone go because we would get over his value.

Then Battle makes sense. We effectively have players who we can work on blooding into his role.

When do you think we start competing again? Didn’t you say this was Lyon’s down year and we’re going for a flag next year?

 

[kernelT]

But if they decided we needed to let someone go because we would get over his value.

Then Battle makes sense. We effectively have players who we can work on blooding into his role.

It has NEVER worked on many similar moves.

Arie has played one game.

You reckon Howard is out, Wilkie & Webster are on the way out.

Battle is the perfect age to go with our younger group, durable and versatile. Cashing him in is just more complicating things when we need to keep it simple.

 

[stavro#4]

When do you think we start competing again? Didn’t you say this was Lyon’s down year and we’re going for a flag next year?

I’ve said he would have us playing finals

And I have said by the end of his time he will have sorted us out and contending.

I also said year 2 would be better than 1 and clearly that’s not panned out - purely because we over performed last year and it’s evidently not going to be linear progression. Had we had this season last year and played finals this year - you wouldn’t bitch and moan all day long.

When we either develop or land a star mid/s is when we will be in that group of contenders.

 

[stavro#4]

It has NEVER worked on many similar moves.

Arie has played one game.

You reckon Howard is out, Wilkie & Webster are on the way out.

Battle is the perfect age to go with our younger group, durable and versatile. Cashing him in is just more complicating things when we need to keep it simple.

Wilkie and Webster out??

Howard is a bang average player. Let’s not build him up to be more then the body of evidence from 2020-24.

There is no dispute of what Battle is.
He is also playing a third tall back role and struggles when asked to play as a genuine key back.

You can replace the above a lot easier. Which is why people are split on the entire scenario of Battl v Band 1 pick

 

[kernelT]

Wilkie and Webster out??

Howard is a bang average player. Let’s not build him up to be more then the body of evidence from 2020-24.

There is no dispute of what Battle is.
He is also playing a third tall back role and struggles when asked to play as a genuine key back.

You can replace the above a lot easier. Which is why people are split on the entire scenario of Battl v Band 1 pick

We coughed up a first rounder for Howard because good full backs are really hard to come by, saying they’re easy to replace doesn’t match up with our actual experience.

Delaney, Wilkes, Brown, Frawley - all duds and I’m sure I’ve missed a few.

 

[The Punter]

The Howard trade was pick 12, pick 18, and our 2020 third rounder for Howard, Ryder, Port Adelaide 2020 fourth rounder, and pick 10.

So I don't think the value of Howard in that trade was a top-20 pick.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We coughed up a first rounder for Howard because good full backs are really hard to come by, saying they’re easy to replace doesn’t match up with our actual experience.

Delaney, Wilkes, Brown, Frawley - all duds and I’m sure I’ve missed a few.

Brown was no dud. But we got him at a fair old age, so he was only a stopgap solution.

 

[kernelT]

The Howard trade was pick 12, pick 18, and our 2020 third rounder for Howard, Ryder, Port Adelaide 2020 fourth rounder, and pick 10.

So I don't think the value of Howard in that trade was a top-20 pick.

Ryder was a garnish so we got a 2 place upgrade on 12 and lost 18, it was a decent amount of capital for a bloke running around in the SANFL.

How many gun full backs have we landed in the last 20 years?

 

[gringo2011]

Wilkie and Webster out??

Howard is a bang average player. Let’s not build him up to be more then the body of evidence from 2020-24.

There is no dispute of what Battle is.
He is also playing a third tall back role and struggles when asked to play as a genuine key back.

You can replace the above a lot easier. Which is why people are split on the entire scenario of Battl v Band 1 pick

Howard came second in the B and F in 2020 didn't he? He's certainly not the problem. Our backline is the only line that has performed adequately. If you lose Battle and Howard at the end of this year we are instantly a much worse back 6 and with Webster getting on he's not going to be more reliable. Even his back up in Paton likely to go and we really look vulnerable.

I hope Battle signs and saves us from ourselves.

To me we look like we need a player like Stengle and a bridging midfield option to go with a drafted kid. That would make us competitive next year. Culling all senior depth and altering the back 6 looks like the way to go backwards.


Anyway if Lyon can't make his list fire he wears the consequences and hopefully lives and dies by his list decisions. It doesn't buy him time or excuses. He had injuries but so did Ratts and Richo when they got shown the door. If we don't start competition while we have our senior core I don't think we will for a long time.

 

[The_Steadier]

The idea to trade salary cap space is an awful one.

It would work (to help fasttrack rebuilds) if clubs cashed in cap space back to the AFL (and in return the league issued a compo pick).

But making rebuilding clubs help flag contending clubs attract and retain stars is moronic.