- Apr 24, 2014
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If he’s leaving we probably won’t hear until the free agency period starts, or just before. If he’s staying it could be any time.
List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread
- Thread starter Dard Ball Get
- Start date
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The sliding doors, StKilda Pelchen hindsight genius talent spotter history.
2011: Milera and Saad worth a try for a 5 pick downgrade. Seb Ross, Neale , Webster, Laird . Rookie : Jack Crisp.
2012: No trades for Tom Lee, or Trent Dennis-Lane, smart list manager knows they are spuds.
Grundy, Corr, Mason Wood, Membrey, Matt Taberner, Ceglar.
2013: No Delaney , No Longer, ...Bruce.....yeah.
Bont, Matt Crouch , Zach Merrett, Ben Brown , Byrne-Jones Rookie: Charlie Cameron.
This is what the Pelchen plan COULD have delivered.
A reasonable plan, failing in the execution.
Key failures.
Trading for Billy Longer.
Trading for Tom Lee.
Generally picking poor players when there were plenty of guns available.
2011: Milera and Saad worth a try for a 5 pick downgrade. Seb Ross, Neale , Webster, Laird . Rookie : Jack Crisp.
2012: No trades for Tom Lee, or Trent Dennis-Lane, smart list manager knows they are spuds.
Grundy, Corr, Mason Wood, Membrey, Matt Taberner, Ceglar.
2013: No Delaney , No Longer, ...Bruce.....yeah.
Bont, Matt Crouch , Zach Merrett, Ben Brown , Byrne-Jones Rookie: Charlie Cameron.
This is what the Pelchen plan COULD have delivered.
A reasonable plan, failing in the execution.
Key failures.
Trading for Billy Longer.
Trading for Tom Lee.
Generally picking poor players when there were plenty of guns available.
Coach " Son....you need to lift, you aren't good enough to be playing for this team .... you need to improve THIS , THIS and THIS "
Player A: Goes home , gets angry...gets motivated...comes back , trains the house down for a solid year. Plays good footy , becomes star.
Player B: Goes home, cries. If he's from interstate requests trade back home so he can be closer to Mummy.
How fortunate that us mere mortals have you to set us on the right path.
I didn’t realise that winning matches was an option and all that it needed was Josh Battle & Luke Dunstan.
Pure genius.
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gringo2011
Premium Platinum
Doesn't matter if we absolutely kill the draft, there are teams like GC, Sydney, GWS, Brisbane, Carlton, etc, every one either in the eight or near it getting free NGA's F/S and then double dipping with their frdp's.
It is a rigged system that can't be won.
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Plenty of average lists win flags though. Gold Coast and GWS have had everything a list manager could ask for but they can't get it all working in one direction. Carlton and Essendon had 20 year rebuilds and still haven't got a flag yet.
I'd say Geelong had a couple of old guns on their last legs and good year out of Danger and Jeremey Cameron and pinched one off the better lists. Collingwood, Geelong and Richmond weren't the bests lists but had the best game plans that maximised their talent. Yes Richmond had Dusty but the reason the won flags was because they utilised what they had available. He just helped finish their work off in big games.
When I counted up Collingwood's recycled and state league players you realise that they haven't built it the normal way. They have cherry picked and targeted very well and usually chase lower profile players before they rise than ready made talent. Geelong also really honed what they had by smart trading and left field pick ups.
People say Geelong attract lots home but Danger and Jeremy Cameron still took trading and negotiation and with JC a lot of bravery to take. They gave a up a lot of draft capital for a guy near the end that plenty of clubs would have baulked at.
CursingFijian
Knight of the Square Table
Some would argue that if the Gold Coast list was based at Punt Rd or Victoria Park, it might already have multiple premierships.
Wow plenty of Premiership teams with average teams?
Name one
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Name one
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Half Back Pocket
Premiership Player
Collingwood, Geelong and Richmond....
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
I think it's a lack of continuity, not enough mature leaders and never being able to set a stable line up that has played a lot of footy together. That cultural cohesion, club identity and all the rest of the secret ingredients make a difference too.
Both Collingwood and Geelong well even Richmond had a lot of players that had played a lot of footy together and lots from successful campaigns to drive standards and leadership.
Carlton, Melbourne and Essendon had lots of high picked players come through but until that core has a lot of experience together it's hard to glue it all together.
The goldilocks dream of a perfect list never happens for anyone. Getting to a point where you are a hardened, experienced, driven unit makes any side competitive. That's what Lyon was good at in the past.
- Sep 17, 2010
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Amen. This should be pinned and responded to when people blest about Ross “not having the cattle.”
Logically criticize a coach and gameplan with examples, pointing out that players need a better coaching and development environment to succeed = getting howled down for being “negative”.
Defeatist talk like “we haven’t got the cattle, our coach can’t kick it for them, players aren’t skilled enough”…. This talk gets lapped up on here.
It is so arse backwards, and spreads like a cancer throughout a supporter base. Let’s the club off big time as well.
Each of those lists had multiple elite players.Collingwood, Geelong and Richmond....
Collingwood: DeGoey, Moore, Daicos, Pendles
Geelong: Cameron, Danger, Stewart, Stengle
Richmond: Dusty, Riewoldt, Lynch, Rance, Grimes, Cotchin
They might be average lists but they were held up by elite talent. We don’t have the top end of any of those sides and if you think we do you need to take off your rose coloured glasses
beside the seaside
Club Legend
- Jun 7, 2023
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When you look at the draft, there's so many mids. Picks 4 and 5 could actually set you up for a decade, landing eg Smillie and Smith.
I guess all we can do is offer a contract worth tier one and hope the Hawks go above it if Battle does leave.
I guess all we can do is offer a contract worth tier one and hope the Hawks go above it if Battle does leave.
Name 1 midfielder in our team that can win the ball and hit a forward target under pressure regularly.. Yes, none.. Sinclair and Nas are half back flankers..
All premiership teams have at least above average midfields.. we have a bottom 2 midfield currently and you expect us to be top 8? Yes, very sound logic.
We were lucky to make the finals last year, just like Ratten was lucky to make the finals in 2020..
What we need is to find the next Harvey, Hays, Montagna, Goddard and Dal Santo.. without a competent midfield, you are always relying on luck to win games.. or a defensive game style.. which we’re using at the moment.
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- May 29, 2013
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I really feel sorry for those unlucky teams that missed out and deserved to be in the Finals ahead of us
Broski
Debutant
- Jul 28, 2023
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Plenty of people underselling the lists of the Geelong, Richmond and Collingwood sides that won flags.
Yes, they had a few foot soldiers - every side has them. However, they all had an elite top-end that you need to win flags. If you reckon Dustin Martin, Cotchin, Rance etc weren't doing the heavy lifting in those sides then you are kidding yourself.
Who, in our current team, come close to reaching the elite level of those above? No one. You could make a small argument for prime Steele, but that's not him now and one player doesn't win you a flag.
Look at our 2009-10 side. The top-end was truly elite. Probably one of the best teams in the modern ere to never win a flag. However, underneath the Hayes, Dal Santo, Riewoldt, Goddard etcs of the world, there were some real plodders.
We have some promising young talent, but we won't know if they will reach elite status until they mature. Until then, we have to keep exploring ways of injecting talent into our side to improve our depth and increase our likelihood of success.
Because, what happens if our young talent don't project to what we expect? We shit the bed. The club knows what it needs to do, but every other club wants to do the same thing.
If we finish with a strong draft hand this off-season, we need to take advantage of our horrible year. We won't have access to elite ready-made talent, so we will need to look at Liam Henry types to compliment our draft hand.
It is never as bad as it seems, and it's never as good as it seems.
Yes, they had a few foot soldiers - every side has them. However, they all had an elite top-end that you need to win flags. If you reckon Dustin Martin, Cotchin, Rance etc weren't doing the heavy lifting in those sides then you are kidding yourself.
Who, in our current team, come close to reaching the elite level of those above? No one. You could make a small argument for prime Steele, but that's not him now and one player doesn't win you a flag.
Look at our 2009-10 side. The top-end was truly elite. Probably one of the best teams in the modern ere to never win a flag. However, underneath the Hayes, Dal Santo, Riewoldt, Goddard etcs of the world, there were some real plodders.
We have some promising young talent, but we won't know if they will reach elite status until they mature. Until then, we have to keep exploring ways of injecting talent into our side to improve our depth and increase our likelihood of success.
Because, what happens if our young talent don't project to what we expect? We shit the bed. The club knows what it needs to do, but every other club wants to do the same thing.
If we finish with a strong draft hand this off-season, we need to take advantage of our horrible year. We won't have access to elite ready-made talent, so we will need to look at Liam Henry types to compliment our draft hand.
It is never as bad as it seems, and it's never as good as it seems.
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All had some elite guns playing for them.Collingwood, Geelong and Richmond....
Dusty arguably the best finals player of all time.
Each GF appearance of the Saints had a core of elite players. We don't have such a core at present.
And that's the whole point. We just don't have that top 6 quality with 3 being mids.
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gringo2011
Premium Platinum
Pendles is still very good but I wouldn't call him elite. I would have Sinclair ahead of him so that would make Sincs elite. Moore is again he's very very good but elite? He's around Wilkie elite with a higher profile. De Goey again A grade and X factor but I don't know about elite. Naicos is probably proper elite.
Danger was close to elite when he played in the premiership year but was managed through to finals. Cameron is elite, so is Stewart. Stengle had a great season but not sure I'd call him elite.
Dusty was elite, Rance only played in one premiership but was elite, Riewoldt was probably elite until their premiership era where he became a less selfish player. Lynch was a gun forward but again, not calling him elite. Cotch was very good and a great leader but not elite IMO. Brownlows aren't necessarily a sign of being elite.
Crouch and Steele probably A grade at their best, Wilkie and Battle are excellent players, King has elite potential, Sinclair close enough to elite, Hill and Nas both excellent, Marshall is probably elite.
Give them a flag or a consistent finals run and they start getting talked up in the media and their profile grows too.
The thing with all of those lists was cohesion and depth at the right time. The competition has never been closer in list quality and a few injuries to a thin list really pushes chances down.
We need midfield depth and probably back fill holes but to go into another rebuild because we don't want to look like we made a bad decision on the coach would be a terrible idea. Most lists don't get to the top from a bottom out without a very long time down.
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
I agree we need quality mids to compete but that should be easy to get hols of someone short term while building up a drafted kid. If we wait for a perfect list we'll never get there.
Dr Spaceman
Brownlow Medallist
Well many think this decision may be based on financial considerations, so if the onion tears fail it may be time to go the full Ryan Adams
”CAN one letter and 20 cents save a football club?
Terry Wallace certainly thinks so, 20 years on from that fateful letter landing on his desk at Whitten Oval just weeks into his new job as head coach.
The letter, of course, was from seven-year-old Sunbury fan Ryan Adams, pleading for star Chris Grant to stay in the red, white and blue.
Attached was a 20 cent coin he hoped would prove the difference between the Dogs’ modest offer and 1.5 million reasons to move to Port Adelaide.
Eventually that letter found Grant and tugged at his heartstrings enough to help sway him from the Power’s once-in-a-lifetime deal.
Wallace says now he forwarded it on to Grant not out of desperation, because it was his right to read his own mail.
In a remarkable piece of timing, Grant re-signed at the Western Bulldogs 20 years ago.
On Saturday the former captain, board member and current football boss will be a part of the club’s first premiership tilt since 1961.
Adams, still living in Sunbury and a Dogs member since 2005, will be at the MCG cheering on the side he helped save.
“Who would have thought a kid’s 20 cent piece and heartfelt letter would be such a critical component of the survival of a footy club?’’ Wallace said.
“By sending it on I never ever thought it would have the impact on Chris that it had. I just sent it on because it was his letter and he deserved to know what everyone was thinking about him.”
Adams was a loyal Dogs member encouraged by his father Gary to pen his letter after deciding he could not support Footscray if Grant departed.
“He was really upset about it, so I told him to write the letter,” Gary said 20 years ago.”
We did , we got Brad Crouch, then all we had to do is build...up.......a ...............zzzzzzzzzz.
- Mar 14, 2011
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However, it remains unclear whether Josh Battle will stay with St Kilda, after it emerged Lyon had a coffee with him.
"I always catch up with Josh ... he's really valued, obviously he has a decision to make," Lyon said.
Saint Watto hoping Your info is good mate.
"I always catch up with Josh ... he's really valued, obviously he has a decision to make," Lyon said.
Saint Watto hoping Your info is good mate.
Saint Watto
Norm Smith Medallist
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Stav....believe me.......so do I.
I'm keeping "my powder dry" atm.
I don't usually don't end up with egg on my face....It's usually a four egg omlette.
The only saving grace is that it usually has a light drizzle of sweet soy sauce over it.
Saint Watto
Norm Smith Medallist
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