List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread

[littlecreatures]

I think what hurts us is the lack of quality across the midfield and forward, which basically is the engine room of where a game is won and lost, and no surprise it’s our defence keeping us remotely in games.

You could take your pick of A-grade quality and talent across the back half (Wilkie, Sinclair, Nas and Battle), then across the rest of the ground IMO Steele, Higgins and Marshall are the only ones I would consider (maybe Wood and Hill could be added but reality is they’re link up players on a wing).

Hopefully next 2-3 years we see players like Windy, Mitchito, Pou, Henry, Wilson, King etc come on, with a bit of luck also Caminiti, Keeler, Garcia etc.

Anyone disregarding the list I think is just trying to wave its the coaches fault flag again, because that’s clearly worked the last few times. No doubt there needs to be a better strategy across forward transition, but I don’t see how any coach gets sustained success with this current squad which competes at the top end.

 

[_Maximus_12]

Pendles is still very good but I wouldn't call him elite. I would have Sinclair ahead of him so that would make Sincs elite. Moore is again he's very very good but elite? He's around Wilkie elite with a higher profile. De Goey again A grade and X factor but I don't know about elite. Naicos is probably proper elite.

Danger was close to elite when he played in the premiership year but was managed through to finals. Cameron is elite, so is Stewart. Stengle had a great season but not sure I'd call him elite.

Dusty was elite, Rance only played in one premiership but was elite, Riewoldt was probably elite until their premiership era where he became a less selfish player. Lynch was a gun forward but again, not calling him elite. Cotch was very good and a great leader but not elite IMO. Brownlows aren't necessarily a sign of being elite.

Crouch and Steele probably A grade at their best, Wilkie and Battle are excellent players, King has elite potential, Sinclair close enough to elite, Hill and Nas both excellent, Marshall is probably elite.

Give them a flag or a consistent finals run and they start getting talked up in the media and their profile grows too.

The thing with all of those lists was cohesion and depth at the right time. The competition has never been closer in list quality and a few injuries to a thin list really pushes chances down.

We need midfield depth and probably back fill holes but to go into another rebuild because we don't want to look like we made a bad decision on the coach would be a terrible idea. Most lists don't get to the top from a bottom out without a very long time down.

Respectfully, this is a big miss Gringo.

Pendles is still one of the best decision makers in the comp. Darcy Moore was the AA captain, that’s elite.
DeGoey is the prototype goal-kicking mid and is absolutely elite.

Tom Lynch came 3rd in the Coleman in 2019. Elite.
Cotchin was absolutely elite throughout their run. They also had Prestia, and Houli who were both borderline elite.

Crouch is not A Grade. He’s very good, but doesn’t move the needle. Jack Steele hasn’t been elite for 3 years.
Wilkie and Ro are close, and Sinclair is an elite half back of the comp.

You don’t just get given flags though or long finals runs, that’s the point. That’s what separates the rest from the elite.

Success in finals. If you think we have enough elite talent on our list right now, you’re not paying close enough attention to the rest of the comp.

 

[stavro#4]

Stav....believe me.......so do I.

I'm keeping "my powder dry" atm.

I don't usually don't end up with egg on my face....It's usually a four egg omlette.

The only saving grace is that it usually has a light drizzle of sweet soy sauce over it.

My personal opinion only.

Gone.

This is as simple as compensation exceeds market value and the Hawks will know the price and hit it if they haven’t already and we will park our offer on the edge of it.

If that’s what we choose to do. Then I kinda hope we go all in.

 

[Saint Watto]

What a great job the club did with the junior members clinic yesterday.
My daughter loved the activities and the holmesglen kids and players were fantastic.
They'll have created some lifelong supporters.

The club cops a bit......a lot....of flak at times but they do these activities incredibly well.

One of the track watchers told me today that she was at the club yesterday and she marveled at how many kids were there.

Another big group was there today.

I was standing at the rail on the ramp.....was great watching the mass of kids scrambling for an autograph.

Josh walked past me....was tempted to say:

"You have one and one only job to do Josh"

I I had a piece of paper.....would have grabbed one of the kids texta's and said....SIGN.

 

[Saint Watto]

My personal opinion only.

Gone.

This is as simple as compensation exceeds market value and the Hawks will know the price and hit it if they haven’t already and we will park our offer on the edge of it.

If that’s what we choose to do. Then I kinda hope we go all in.

It's a classic case of a "double edged sword"

 

[beside the seaside]

My personal opinion only.

Gone.

This is as simple as compensation exceeds market value and the Hawks will know the price and hit it if they haven’t already and we will park our offer on the edge of it.

If that’s what we choose to do. Then I kinda hope we go all in.

I'm coming around to it. If you can get pick 5 it's a huge opportunity for the club to set ourselves up for the next ten years. Josh is a gun player but if you can land a pick like that for him you have to take it.

The nerves waiting for the compo announcement would be awful though.

 

[Fehring]

Plenty of average lists win flags though. Gold Coast and GWS have had everything a list manager could ask for but they can't get it all working in one direction. Carlton and Essendon had 20 year rebuilds and still haven't got a flag yet.

I'd say Geelong had a couple of old guns on their last legs and good year out of Danger and Jeremey Cameron and pinched one off the better lists. Collingwood, Geelong and Richmond weren't the bests lists but had the best game plans that maximised their talent. Yes Richmond had Dusty but the reason the won flags was because they utilised what they had available. He just helped finish their work off in big games.

When I counted up Collingwood's recycled and state league players you realise that they haven't built it the normal way. They have cherry picked and targeted very well and usually chase lower profile players before they rise than ready made talent. Geelong also really honed what they had by smart trading and left field pick ups.

People say Geelong attract lots home but Danger and Jeremy Cameron still took trading and negotiation and with JC a lot of bravery to take. They gave a up a lot of draft capital for a guy near the end that plenty of clubs would have baulked at.

The team that gives me hope is the 2018 West Coast team. Elite backline (tick), very good forward line (we have the pieces). A midfield that had no absolute gun but batted deep. If enough of our young mids come on, plus we add 2 draftees this year and recruit one or two good mids then arguably we're there there abouts.

 

[Joffaboy]

I agree we need quality mids to compete but that should be easy to get hols of someone short term while building up a drafted kid. If we wait for a perfect list we'll never get there.

I do like the idea of getting someone like a Luke Parker to take the pressure of Steele while mentoring, Windy, Pou, Wilson, Chito and the one or two drafted mids we get.

Reckon Garcia would thrive under a Parker type.
Agreed can't wait for the perfect list. I reckon we have as good a bottom 12 as anyone in the League. Our top 6 with three being top quality mids is our issue.

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[stavro#4]

The team that gives me hope is the 2018 West Coast team. Elite backline (tick), very good forward line (we have the pieces). A midfield that had no absolute gun but batted deep. If enough of our young mids come on, plus we add 2 draftees this year and recruit one or two good mids then arguably we're there there abouts.

Elite backs and forwards.

Prime Yeo and Shuey

You are not giving enough credit

 

[BrutThough]

I do like the idea of getting someone like a Luke Parker to take the pressure of Steele while mentoring, Windy, Pou, Wilson, Chito and the one or two drafted mids we get.

Reckon Garcia would thrive under a Parker type.
Agreed can't wait for the perfect list. I reckon we have as good a bottom 12 as anyone in the League. Our top 6 with three being top quality mids is our issue.

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Maybe Macrae? A few years younger than Parker but as long as he is fit, could take heaps of pressure off Steele. Particularly if Crouch's knee doesn't hold up.

If Bevo stays, he might be looking elsewhere.

 

[crasha301]

Just finished up at the pub with a few mates talking footy dribble.

One of them is a doggies supporter and made a really good suggestion.

If we end up with picks 4+5 (battle)

Why not draft the best mid available at pick 4 and trade pick 5 for Smith.

That would net us a midfielder we need now and one to develop, win win.




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[BrutThough]

Just finished up at the pub with a few mates talking footy dribble.

One of them is a doggies supporter and made a really good suggestion.

If we end up with picks 4+5 (battle)

Why not draft the best mid available at pick 4 and trade pick 5 for Smith.

That would net us a midfielder we need now and one to develop, win win.




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I'd do that in a heartbeat. He'd fit us perfectly.

But I doubt we can compete with the Cotton On payments Geelong have promised him.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

My personal opinion only.

Gone.

This is as simple as compensation exceeds market value and the Hawks will know the price and hit it if they haven’t already and we will park our offer on the edge of it.

If that’s what we choose to do. Then I kinda hope we go all in.

Plus the afl will give out band one no matter what considering all the noise we’re making.
Bookmark it.

 

[crasha301]

I'd do that in a heartbeat. He'd fit us perfectly.

But I doubt we can compete with the Cotton On payments Geelong have promised him.

I think we could afford to offer him 7 million over 6 years and front load the first 2 or 3.

Better then overpaying B and C grade players we already have on our list.

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[BrutThough]

I think we could afford to offer him 7 million over 6 years and front load the first 2 or 3.

Better then overpaying B and C grade players we already have on our list.

On CPH2145 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Agree on that.

 

[StFly]

I do like the idea of getting someone like a Luke Parker to take the pressure of Steele while mentoring, Windy, Pou, Wilson, Chito and the one or two drafted mids we get.

Reckon Garcia would thrive under a Parker type.
Agreed can't wait for the perfect list. I reckon we have as good a bottom 12 as anyone in the League. Our top 6 with three being top quality mids is our issue.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

IMO, we need a BDE KPF.

Get the mids to drive for sure, top of the crop midfield, but then you have to look at who are they kicking to?

A Ming that might be great but also might just give up, crack the sads and try to shoulder charge someone.
A Higgins that tries to do everything as so many gaps that he almost fails to be a small forward.
A Butler that a stiff breeze can unseat and a bigger body can straight move as they please.
A Membrey who runs under the ball so he can vertically jump at it and hope.

So as you say, could do well getting things in short term in mid to really drive standards of the up and comers, but I am shitting bricks if the Chito, Keeler and co are getting tips from Timmy "just run here in leading patterns and you'll be sure to get spoiled 99.98% of the time" so Sharman can wonder WTF is going on as he drifts in to be a competent third tall with Wood.

 

[Klaatu]

Chase Reef McInnes as a 3rd tall forward is too good for VFL.


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[Sir Owens]

The sliding doors, StKilda Pelchen hindsight genius talent spotter history.

2011: Milera and Saad worth a try for a 5 pick downgrade. Seb Ross, Neale , Webster, Laird . Rookie : Jack Crisp.
2012: No trades for Tom Lee, or Trent Dennis-Lane, smart list manager knows they are spuds.
Grundy, Corr, Mason Wood, Membrey, Matt Taberner, Ceglar.
2013: No Delaney , No Longer, ...Bruce.....yeah.
Bont, Matt Crouch , Zach Merrett, Ben Brown , Byrne-Jones Rookie: Charlie Cameron.

This is what the Pelchen plan COULD have delivered.
A reasonable plan, failing in the execution.

Key failures.
Trading for Billy Longer.
Trading for Tom Lee.
Generally picking poor players when there were plenty of guns available.

Harsh on Billy Longer. I thought his point at the scoreboard made the trade worthwhile.

 

[saintbill]

Twomey. Kings new deal has been in the works for some time. Will take him into his early 30s

Yuk, sounds like something very stupid is in the works.

 

[Atomboy]

Plus the afl will give out band one no matter what considering all the noise we’re making.
Bookmark it.

Good, very much enjoying a President who goes out to bat strongly for us in public.

Fully expect us to be playing 12 away games in Cairns next year as punishment but so be it

 

[_Maximus_12]

Yuk, sounds like something very stupid is in the works.

So stupid to tie a player who’s tracking ahead of Tom Hawkins at the same age to a long term deal.

 

[Miha]

The King takes are

 

[Teflon]

Name 1 midfielder in our team that can win the ball and hit a forward target under pressure regularly.. Yes, none.. Sinclair and Nas are half back flankers..

All premiership teams have at least above average midfields.. we have a bottom 2 midfield currently and you expect us to be top 8? Yes, very sound logic.

We were lucky to make the finals last year, just like Ratten was lucky to make the finals in 2020..

What we need is to find the next Harvey, Hays, Montagna, Goddard and Dal Santo.. without a competent midfield, you are always relying on luck to win games.. or a defensive game style.. which we’re using at the moment.

Yep
The rubbish sprouted in here that’s it game plan holding us back or we just need to train more skills is dross
You can’t fake a lack of elite talent
You can’t fake no midfield
Utter nonsense

 

[saintbill]

So stupid to tie a player who’s tracking ahead of Tom Hawkins at the same age to a long term deal.

OMG, not the Tom Hawkins merry go round again. For starters he had the biggest one year leap in productivity of any forward I can remember the last 20 years, certainly the exception not the norm.

Also, you do realise this is Kings 6th year on an AFL list? Sure he has missed games, but Hawkins was close to best on ground in a GF in his 5th year. By his 6th year, same age King is now, he was the best forward in the comp.

Comparisons are laughable. King has regressed. Was showing far more promise 2-3 years ago.

 

[beside the seaside]

OMG, not the Tom Hawkins merry go round again. For starters he had the biggest one year leap in productivity of any forward I can remember the last 20 years, certainly the exception not the norm.

Also, you do realise this is Kings 6th year on an AFL list? Sure he has missed games, but Hawkins was close to best on ground in a GF in his 5th year. By his 6th year, same age King is now, he was the best forward in the comp.

Comparisons are laughable. King has regressed. Was showing far more promise 2-3 years ago.

Any injuries over the last 2-3 years that could have held him up?

Sorry but the willingness to join the media pile on into one of our most talented young players is over the top. Let's try supporting the kid why don't we.