Training 2024 training updates.

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Just had a bit of a read of the Ned Long thread on the Hawthorn board:
He was a rookie selection in 2021 and they gave him a 1 year extension so he played for 2 years mostly at VFL.
Traits: excellent endurance (ran a 6 minute 4 second 2Km time)
Not bad around goals. Played some forward time and kicked a few. Massive rig from day 1. Average speed but a good tackler. Poor agility and an ok kick. "Cripps like" was the most common comment.

Had a few good VFL games: 38 touches 12 Clearences, 12 tackles and 3 goals was his best.
Played 5 AFL games with 2 sub starts. Had trouble getting games because even when he was playing well in the VFL others playing his role were playing well in the AFL. Delisted the end of 2023.
Not many big men start the élite competition at full capability.
Might still have his best to come. Will absolutely depend on his desire to succeed and be coached. Skills and game plan.
my biggest knock on the Buckley years was his inability to transfer his elite skills to the players. Some of those players are still with us but the last two years have seen their skills lift to great heights.
 

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I’ll never get my head around the stupidity of delisting a young 199cm key position prospect in favour of re-recruiting a bloke who quit, got fat, and then decided he wanted to play again at the last minute. Complete lunacy from Essendon on that one.
Tippa was one of their better players. We gave Marty Clarke a similar opportunity, and he was nowhere near as good.
 
He has looked good. Fitting back in well, given all the injuries he has had.
He barely rates a mention in any of the training reports. My reading of his current status is that he is performing adequately but nothing special. Reports would suggest that he has been surpassed by others.
 
He barely rates a mention in any of the training reports. My reading of his current status is that he is performing adequately but nothing special. Reports would suggest that he has been surpassed by others.
He's a tall defender. Solid. Reliable. Strong. Does what needs to be done. Nothing flashy required.

Who on our list would have surpassed him? Particularly as he's yet to debut in the seniors.
 
Maybe something like
Love is in the Eyre…

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I like to think of it as a Moneyball approach to kicking a winning/competitive score. If you can get to 14-16 goals by 1-4 goals from each of your tall, medium and small forwards and another 2-4 from your mids then you’re not relying heavily on a star tall forward to kick a bag every week.
And it’s not very often that tall forwards kick a bag in a grand final due to the quality of the defenders and the pressure on the ball carrier. Carlton rely fairly heavily on Charlie Curnow and he ended up struggling to hit the scoreboard in the finals kicking just the 3 goals in total.
Much better to have a high quality group of forwards that can each contribute a few goals as well as providing defensive forward pressure. Goal kicking kids like Sidey, Crisp and Jordy are handy too
Whilst I agree with your post (it’s exactly what we do)….im going to call out the Moneyball reference.

It’s NOT moneyball if you have guys that do a job and a game plan to suit.

It IS money all if you have traded them in on the back of a single stat that the Pies value over all other stats.
Key point is “a single stat”.

Moneyball is always thrown around for people traded in on the cheap. The premise of it is seemingly always misunderstood.
(High horse rant over! :) )
 

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Thats true, though Beams didnt take a year off and became unfit. Beams at least came 2nd in lions Bnf and top 10 in the brownlow that year.. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
Essendon probably didn't need tippa, they have some good players coming through, and its not like he played very much last year.
But I guess when he mentioned he wanted to come back, they felt some obligation.
Obligation? What did they owe a bloke who walked out on the club while they still wanted and needed him?

It was list management stupidity, plain and simple, they assumed they could get him back to the player he was before he left, which was an almost impossible task with the condition he was in.
 
Just had a bit of a read of the Ned Long thread on the Hawthorn board:
He was a rookie selection in 2021 and they gave him a 1 year extension so he played for 2 years mostly at VFL.
Traits: excellent endurance (ran a 6 minute 4 second 2Km time)
Not bad around goals. Played some forward time and kicked a few. Massive rig from day 1. Average speed but a good tackler. Poor agility and an ok kick. "Cripps like" was the most common comment.

Had a few good VFL games: 38 touches 12 Clearences, 12 tackles and 3 goals was his best.
Played 5 AFL games with 2 sub starts. Had trouble getting games because even when he was playing well in the VFL others playing his role were playing well in the AFL. Delisted the end of 2023.
That’s an incredible game at any level. Better than anything the Brown brothers produced in 6 years at Collingwood and better than anything Fin has produced either.
 
Whilst I agree with your post (it’s exactly what we do)….im going to call out the Moneyball reference.

It’s NOT moneyball if you have guys that do a job and a game plan to suit.

It IS money all if you have traded them in on the back of a single stat that the Pies value over all other stats.
Key point is “a single stat”.

Moneyball is always thrown around for people traded in on the cheap. The premise of it is seemingly always misunderstood.
(High horse rant over! :) )
Moneyball on footy terms is slightly different though, I’d add, with traits rather than stats the focus. I’d regard Markov for instance, as a moneyball recruitment, with the club targeting him specifically for his speed and ability to run and carry the ball out of defence. Traits that suited our game plan well enough that his weaknesses weren’t really an issue.
 
Obligation? What did they owe a bloke who walked out on the club while they still wanted and needed him?

It was list management stupidity, plain and simple, they assumed they could get him back to the player he was before he left, which was an almost impossible task with the condition he was in.
Oh I agree. They owed him nothing, it was a bizarre thing at the time. But this is essendon, they aren't known to make the best choices.
 
Moneyball on footy terms is slightly different though, I’d add, with traits rather than stats the focus. I’d regard Markov for instance, as a moneyball recruitment, with the club targeting him specifically for his speed and ability to run and carry the ball out of defence. Traits that suited our game plan well enough that his weaknesses weren’t really an issue.
Moneyball was coined from a specific club doing a specific thing in a specific league.
So changing it for a different sport is actually not Moneyball at all.

So if you want to say “we’re doing Moneyball”….then pick a stat that we base our recruiting around. Markov is absolutely the closest.

But as a single stat, it absolutely doesn’t fit AFL.

Again, Moneyball is not about a specific player and the fact we got him “cheap”.

But, if I had to apply Moneyball to the us, it would be 1v1 wins.
I can’t see another single metric that would apply.
 
Moneyball was coined from a specific club doing a specific thing in a specific league.
So changing it for a different sport is actually not Moneyball at all.

So if you want to say “we’re doing Moneyball”….then pick a stat that we base our recruiting around. Markov is absolutely the closest.

But as a single stat, it absolutely doesn’t fit AFL.

Again, Moneyball is not about a specific player and the fact we got him “cheap”.

But, if I had to apply Moneyball to the us, it would be 1v1 wins.
I can’t see another single metric that would apply.

Since the release of the film I thought it was a reference to using evidence as opposed to reputation.
 
Dean, Eyre & Long all still young and tall and take time, think we should really invest in them could get really lucky here.
I definitely like the idea of having more promising talls on the list, as well as some more strong mids. They probably won't all work out, of course, but the depth & competition are healthy.
 
Whilst I agree with your post (it’s exactly what we do)….im going to call out the Moneyball reference.

It’s NOT moneyball if you have guys that do a job and a game plan to suit.

It IS money all if you have traded them in on the back of a single stat that the Pies value over all other stats.
Key point is “a single stat”.

Moneyball is always thrown around for people traded in on the cheap. The premise of it is seemingly always misunderstood.
(High horse rant over! :) )
Moneyball in the sense that we can achieve the desired amount of goals for a potentially winning score with a number of different goal kickers without having to rely on KPF kicking a bag every week to end up with the same score. Reminds me of when we had the Rocca brothers playing together. If they kicked a bag we usually won. If they didn’t we generally lost the game. Better to spread your goal kickers around. The more the better. In fact if a team has 9 or more goal kickers in a game they will nearly always win the match.
 
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