USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Biden II

[Gethelred]

Okay, we've had a good run. Some have had a good laugh and others have melted a little, but from this point we're improving the standard of discussion.

The rules for the SRP are thus:

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www.bigfooty.com

... and I'd like you all to stick to them.

From the Trump threads:

Mod Notice
* Thread monitored actively. User who drag it down will be removed

Specifically: reference to TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) and its counterpart 'Trumpanzee' or anything similar will no longer be allowed.

Personal attacks are also to be kept to a minimum.

Play nicely from here, please.

 

[Present Not Past]

In the American system people not turning up to vote is a version of pushing

Its not so much voting for Democrats its having enough votes to defeat the Republicans - the same as it was 2020

Well then I ask you this then.
How many votes is Donald Trump pushing against voting Republican?

 

[GreyCrow]

The Democrats did do nothing. That's the worst position as you say.
By dumping Biden, Trump will say that the Democrats are indecisive
and weak.
Yes, the decision should have been made months ago.
But no, it can't be changed so late in the campaign.

Rubbish. As I said Trump can say whatever he wants

It can be spun a million different ways and given the respect Presidents get the only people bleating will be MAGAs and you wont change their minds

'' Joe has consulted with multiple medical professionals and has decided - for the good of the country to stand down at the completion of this election. We hope everybody gives President Biden their best wishes and respect his privacy in these matters''

MAGAs '' waah waah waah bleat bleat bleat ''

The rest of the country ' Poor Mr President I hope he has a good life''

 

[GreyCrow]

Well then I ask you this then.
How many votes is Donald Trump pushing against voting Republican?

28million

 

[Present Not Past]

Rubbish. As I said Trump can say whatever he wants

It can be spun a million different ways and given the respect Presidents get the only people bleating will be MAGAs and you wont change their minds

'' Joe has consulted with multiple medical professionals and has decided - for the good of the country to stand down at the completion of this election. We hope everybody gives President Biden their best wishes and respect his privacy in these matters''

MAGAs '' waah waah waah bleat bleat bleat ''

The rest of the country ' Poor Mr President I hope he has a good life''

Of course Trump can say want he wants.
He's the challenger.

 

[Spearman]

Gee you must have asleep when Trump's revolving door Press Secretaries stood before the press and lied daily:

Sean Spicer - Trump drew "the largest audience to witness an inauguration."
Sarah Huckabee Sanders - "president in no way, form or fashion has ever promoted or encouraged violence."
Kayleigh McEnany (stated "I will never lie to you) - and proceeded to do so at every press conference about Obama, Covid, criticizing Mattis saying, “little more than a self-promotional stunt to appease the DC elite.”.
Stephanie Grisham - “I don’t think they’re lies. … I think the President communicates in a way that some people, especially the media, aren’t necessarily comfortable with".

And when they ran out of lies, they just didn't hold Press conferences.

and don't forget the Hall of Fame level "alternative facts".

 

[Spearman]

Ex TYT alumni going to grifter circuit. Kinda waiting for Ana to do likewise.

wouldn't surprise me. I remember when Dore was on, interesting takes, but he went as you say, the grifter route.
I've been watching them since their first move out of Cenk's basement . They've all gotten more and more preachy and screechy. I like the actual news reporting but often turn away when they do their 'analysis'. Cenk is good on the nuts and bolts of media, government and corporate corruption.

 

[faible]

With putting no work into it , off the top of my head

• Kamela Harris
• Gavin Newsom
• Gretchen Whitmer
• JB Pritzker
• Josh Shapiro

I watched a video of Newsom debating DeSantis and even Fox (it was on their YouTube, first result) had to concede Newsom had run circles around DeSantis.

He’d absolutely obliterate Trump’s lies in real time, but I suspect being Californian he wouldn’t necessarily appeal to those swing state voters that are going to be crucial.

 

[Spearman]

The DNC have already put all their bets on Kamala. They can't not nominate her after all this time. There will have to be an open convention anointing someone else. I think Newsom could do it, even though I think he's a bit of a sleaze. Newsome and Buttigieg could be the new Clinton-Gore.

 

[10571z]

Trump is a historically bad candidate. He has a small but extremely passionate base, and is widely disliked otherwise. Every poll indicates he is significantly more disliked than liked. He's previously been President, and did a catastophically bad job, including being responsible for the deaths of millions with his mishandling of Covid. He's currently facing 54 criminal indictments and has been convicted of 34. This is a woefully bad candidate who is extremely beatable, by Biden's own measure there's "around 50" Democrats who could beat him now.

Trump's Supreme Court overruled Roe v Wade, an incredibly unpopular decision, and one that he struggled to defend in his debate with Biden (which got overshadowed by Biden's bad performance, and his inability to lay a blow as Biden inexplicably answered the question about abortion by pivoting to talking about immigrants raping women). Someone who could prosecute that case properly would be game over for Trump, as this is one of his biggest Achilles heels.

Biden's badly bleeding votes on his complicity to the Israeli massacre of Palestinians. We saw in the UK some safe Labour seats go independent because of their softness on the issue, and Labor here has concerns about the same. But neither has been as all-in on this issue as Biden. He's historically been one of the most pro-Israel politicians in the Democratic Party, and is completely misreading the room today. It will cost him, and any candidate who can pivot and promise to halt the arming of the Israelis and join the rest of the world in standing up to Israel would do well.

Every poll shows "Generic Democrat" beating Trump. Biden is polling behind Democrats on a state level in basically every swing state race. He is an anchor on the party, and has given no plan on how he'll turn this around or any indication of what he'd do differently.

You don’t win a US election with a “small” base.

 

[bourbons]

There will be a second Presidential debate on ABC on Sept 10th.
It may even include RFK Jr. He may qualify for that one.
There's also a debate on July 11th in Las Vegas.

I mean.. I'm sure its scheduled. Just not sure how they're gonna force Trump to turn up.

 

[bourbons]

The Democrats did do nothing. That's the worst position as you say.
By dumping Biden, Trump will say that the Democrats are indecisive
and weak.
Yes, the decision should have been made months ago.
But no, it can't be changed so late in the campaign.

Agree with you that the decision should have been made months ago (longer - Joe should have indicated he wasn't going for a 2nd term and had a proper primary).

But Lara Trump I think it was has been doing the rounds on conservative outlets since the debate saying stuff like "betrayal of democracy" or similar if Biden doesn't run. Trump wants to run against him - that should tell you everything you need to know. As bad as it will be, it will be worse if he stays, they need to make the change.

 

[bourbons]

'' Joe has consulted with multiple medical professionals and has decided - for the good of the country to stand down at the completion of this election. We hope everybody gives President Biden their best wishes and respect his privacy in these matters''

MAGAs '' waah waah waah bleat bleat bleat ''

The rest of the country ' Poor Mr President I hope he has a good life''

Exactly. There's no way that if they come out with a statement like this finally acknowledging the reality, that it somehow plays worse than if they just maintain the status quo and continue gliding the plane into the mountain.

 

[KAYNE]

Now with Clooney and the big donor base jumping off Biden it's hard to see if he stays on. The longer it drags out the worse it will get for them.

I assume the reason the decision to officially tap him on the shoulder is there isn't a real stand out candidate to take over. Kamala Harris isn't at all popular in the polls so they would most likely look elsewhere.

 

[pjcrows]

Biden is obviously gone, but it's probably actually now smarter politics to wait until after the RNC next week to pull the pin. Find out who Trump picks for VP etc.

 

[KAYNE]

Exactly. There's no way that if they come out with a statement like this finally acknowledging the reality, that it somehow plays worse than if they just maintain the status quo and continue gliding the plane into the mountain.

The issue would be that they have denied medical professionals have been to the White House to visit Joe. For him to now step aside saying he has seen medical professionals would be admitting to lying.

 

[pjcrows]

The issue would be that they have denied medical professionals have been to the White House to visit Joe. For him to now step aside saying he has seen medical professionals would be admitting to lying.

No medical professionals are required.

 

[GreyCrow]

I assume the reason the decision to officially tap him on the shoulder is there isn't a real stand out candidate to take over. Kamala Harris isn't at all popular in the polls so they would most likely look elsewhere.

I think there are multiple stand out candidates who can come in and make a difference

According to the latest 538 polls Harris is 50/50 on disapproval but weirdly at 38% on approval - but also this mirrors Biden numbers ie 38% approval - so not sure if this is mixing both

538 also have Trump ahead of most other candidates currently. I wonder if this changes once/if a new player emerges

 

[pjcrows]

I think there are multiple stand out candidates who can come in and make a difference

According to the latest 538 polls Harris is 50/50 on disapproval but weirdly at 38% on approval - but also this mirrors Biden numbers ie 38% approval - so not sure if this is mixing both

538 also have Trump ahead of most other candidates currently. I wonder if this changes once/if a new player emerges

There aren't multiple stand out candidates, otherwise there would be an overwhelmingly popular candidate ready. You can't say that.

But things will definitely change with a new candidate. I think Trump will ultimately win but it flips the race to competitive depending on who they pick.

 

[Paul Kersey]

Biden’s done imo.

 

[Engimal v3]

I think the left-wing media in the US needs to stop trying to catch Trump bungling speeches. Any time they do, conservatives get a perfect moment to say, "have you seen the other guy?"

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I think the left-wing media in the US needs to stop trying to catch Trump bungling speeches. Any time they do, conservatives get a perfect moment to say, "have you seen the other guy?"

So you are saying they shouldnt record Trump speeches?

 

[burge13]

It's not like these are new problems. Biden didn't deteriorate that badly in 3 weeks

People have gone from telling the world he's fine and endorsing/sponsoring him then he publicly shits the bed so they change their tune. They knew he was cooked 3 weeks ago. Hypocrites

 

[happy_eagle]

wouldn't surprise me. I remember when Dore was on, interesting takes, but he went as you say, the grifter route.
I've been watching them since their first move out of Cenk's basement . They've all gotten more and more preachy and screechy. I like the actual news reporting but often turn away when they do their 'analysis'. Cenk is good on the nuts and bolts of media, government and corporate corruption.

Never really got much into Cenk or TYT.
I do find Sam Seder to be pretty good on most topics though.

 

[Engimal v3]

So you are saying they shouldnt record Trump speeches?

I'm saying that 5'0" guy shouldn't point out how short the 5'5" guy is.

 

[Spearman]

Never really got much into Cenk or TYT.
I do find Sam Seder to be pretty good on most topics though.

Seder is good. Cenk has an annoying schtick. He does it because he is the boss there and they need the clicks. I hate it when they lose it over stories, just histrionics sometimes. And a lot of what they do is just read some story off the web and talk about it. I've said before, I usually have clicked away when they start that part of the story. But they do cover a lot of stuff you don't see elsewhere. And it does me a dose of what the hard progs are doing.