USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

[CM86]

I don’t think many long term posters in this thread gets interrogated as much for their posts as I do

OK.

I'll read the rest later.


But Trump supporters complaining about Trump being fact-checked more than Harris isn't evidence of media bias.
You know this.

So for you to try and use this, especially after I've clearly explained why you'd be under more scrutiny...
Well to me that just shows that you're being dishonest and manipulative.

 

[pjcrows]

Why?

Considering you're more left than Harris, and your opposition to Harris clearly means opposition to Trump policy.

But add to that Trump and his backer's desire to overturn democracy.
Why would you not use your single vote to oppose Trump?

Because you're doing exactly what the far right would like the 'left' to do, which is to not impact the votes FOR Trump.
So can you explain why you'd be helpful to their system, without ignoring the actual threat of Trump vs the lackluster outcomes from the Dems?

I'd vote my conscience, regardless.

Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is what caused the current situation.

"Just hold your nose, vote for <insert name here>, then next time we will really get some change. This time it's just so existential that you need to overlook your values and vote for them, the alternative is catastrophic!"

Nah. That's been said at every election for 20+ years.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I said a lot of people are looking at the last 16 years and blaming the Democrats more than they're blaming Trump. I'm not saying Trump is good. He's not good.

Odd that they don’t se or remember the tea party madness which crippled 6 of Obamas years

 

[Crankyhawk]

Trump has turned his focus onto an enemy we can all unite against.

In wind vs Mara la go I am backing the wind…

 

[pjcrows]

Odd that they don’t se or remember the tea party madness which crippled 6 of Obamas years

Oh you mean just after Obama had complete control of the House and the Senate and did nothing?

 

[CM86]

I vote my conscience, regardless.

Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is what caused the current situation.

"Just hold your nose, vote for <insert name here>, then next time we will really get some change. This time it's just so existential that you need to overlook your values and vote for them, the alternative is catastrophic!"

Nah.

So Trump would have won the previous election, and will win the next election.

So your position is in support of a Trump presidency.
Those are the outcomes of your actions, regardless of your words.

Do you even think Trump is a threat to democracy in the US at all?
Do you think Trump has had any negative impact on Australia?

You can pretend to be 'above' the 'lesser of two evils'. But if your actions are actually supportive of Trump, considering the extremes he represents, then how can you pretend to be against Trump?

 

[pjcrows]

This is an insane post. Please stop and read back for 20 seconds and consider your 'left wing' perspective...

Like I said to EagleMan87, fair point.

 

[CM86]

Oh you mean just after Obama had complete control of the House and the Senate and did nothing?

Because he was stupid enough to try and negotiate?

 

[CM86]

Like I said to EagleMan87, fair point.

Ok, this is positive.

But have you paused to reflect on it?
Has it made you reconsider any of your positions, views or conscience?

OR... Do you just view it as an optical slip up?

 

[Fire]

"Just hold your nose, vote for <insert name here>, then next time we will really get some change. This time it's just so existential that you need to overlook your values and vote for them, the alternative is catastrophic!"

Nah. That's been said at every election for 20+ years.

So you think a second Trump term would be equivalent to say... a Romney presidency? Or a McCain one?

Are you unable to discern between hyperbole and genuine concerns? Because they both sound the same to you?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I have a problem with this. Not easy to beat Trump especially with the media (not just FOX) repeating and still amplifying his every lie and alternate facts.

The USA is a strange place (family and friends there) and sadly rarely question their politicians.

Fear and loss are strong emotions and motivators and Trump uses that very well.

He has been doing this for the past 8 years, big thing to overcome and still speak about policies that will benefit them.

He is a disgusting human being.

I agree with all this but can’t see how it in any way is contrary to what I had said.

 

[burge13]

You can't separate the two: things weren't good economically for minorities and women back then.

Weird thing to say here

The economy can be very strong and still have poor people in it. They're completely separate issues

 

[GreyCrow]

This - rightly or wrongly - is my thinking

All the commentary seems to be pro-trump. Whether that's algorithms or not I don't know

I hope my little poll dive later is informative

EagleMan87

Had a look around and some interesting points raised

Most of this is wiki as I couldnt understand that Statistica site and they wanted money for deeper info

2022 United States elections - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The polling 1st

Many pundits in the media failed to predict the Democratic resilient performance; Simon Rosenberg was one exception. Republican pollsters such as the Trafalgar Group had a notable polling miss, with errors well outside the margin of error in races such as the 2022 U.S. Senate election in Washington.

On election eve, an unweighted average of 17 polls indicated that Republicans were expected to defeat Democrats by 2.5% in the generic congressional vote.

Polls were relatively good, especially when compared to 2020, though not as good as what FiveThirtyEight, a polling aggregator website,defines as the Gold Standard (2006–2012).

I talked about this being a single issue election and it seems 2022 may have been the forerunner of this

Because many here are squawking that ''its the economy bro '' I thought I would paste this from the issues of 2022

Voters suffered from historically high consumer prices,gas prices,and interest rates, which Republicans blamed on Biden's and Democratic policies, as well as government spending;Democrats argued that it was linked to the global surge of inflation, the COVID-19 pandemic-related supply chain issues, and the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

The economy, inflation in particular, remained the top issue for voters throughout 2022.According to an October 2022 Monmouth University poll, 82 percent of Americans considered inflation to be an "extremely or very essential issue" for the government to handle, and seven in ten Americans disapproved of Biden's handling of the cost of living rise. It is not clear whether there is a correlation between rise of inflation, particularly the rise of gas prices, and lower presidential approval ratings, which can cause negative election results;

Yet it didnt seem to impact the mid-terms

Following the ruling of the U.S. Supreme Court in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization that overturned Roe v. Wade in June 2022, Democrats outperformed Biden's results in the 2020 U.S. presidential election in several House special elections, with abortion cited as a major contributor to their victories, as many Republican-controlled states passed restrictive abortion laws, including a total or near-total ban on the procedure. Democrats tried to pass a federal law to protect the right to abortion but did not have enough support in the Senate, and abortion was prioritized as an issue for the general elections. Some Democrats, including party strategists and pollsters, were divided on whether this could help them or if focusing on the economy and inflation, as the latter seemed to grow a bigger concern among voters in the fall, was a better strategy. This led some observers, as well as several major news outlets, including among others ABC News, and NBC News, to question whether their focus on abortion was the best strategy to avoid losses in the midterms and if it had lost significance since spring.

The other factor is 37 Republicans were Trump Picks

 

[Aussie in exile]

OK.

I'll read the rest later.


But Trump supporters complaining about Trump being fact-checked more than Harris isn't evidence of media bias.
You know this.

So for you to try and use this, especially after I've clearly explained why you'd be under more scrutiny...
Well to me that just shows that you're being dishonest and manipulative.

Why do tRumps supporters have trouble with him being fact checked?

 

[bourbons]

Trump was in charge for 4 out of the last 16 years. Democrats 12 of 16 At the moment, a lot of people are factoring it all together and saying they're fed up with Democrats.

I think you may be factoring in some calculus among Trump supporters that just isn't there, to put it mildly lol

Many would vote for a pot plant with (R) next to it, and most of Trump's 30%-ish base are just cult members at this point.

 

[GreyCrow]

I thought Harris’ initial “We’re not going back” slogan was strong. It said “Are you sick of the past ten years? Let’s move on”. That and calling Trump/Vance weird really had the Republicans on the run.

There was an article that the senior advisors said they were being too negative and had to drop it. This was a calamitous mistake, I think.

Agreed. But I do think a point of difference can be a good thing

But , like news , it seems people want shoutrage instead of policy . It would be smart for the Democrats to go back to the negative but I fear they have wedged themselves

 

[Mofra]

Weird thing to say here

The economy can be very strong and still have poor people in it. They're completely separate issues

Yes absolutely. The wealth inequality in the US eclipses most OECD nations by a huge amount too. GDP per capita wouldn't show any of that.

Anecdotally, 1 in 7 US adults require food stamps to survive. It's near-revolution levels of inequality if we consider the current state of the US through a historical lens.

 

[pjcrows]

So Trump would have won the previous election, and will win the next election.

So your position is in support of a Trump presidency.
Those are the outcomes of your actions, regardless of your words.

Do you even think Trump is a threat to democracy in the US at all?
Do you think Trump has had any negative impact on Australia?

You can pretend to be 'above' the 'lesser of two evils'. But if your actions are actually supportive of Trump, considering the extremes he represents, then how can you pretend to be against Trump?

Trump wouldn't have won the previous election. Biden would have. I'd only have one vote.

If you say I support Trump because I'd vote Third Party or not at all, then with all due respect you sound like a child.

I don't think Trump is a threat to democracy. The US "democracy" is essentially an oligarchy. There are so many more pressing issues in that country, none of which will be addressed, hence why their empire is crumbling.

Impact on Australia? World events usually impact Australia, but Trump or Harris getting elected is not going to change my daily life, the life of my family, friends or employment. I think Peter Dutton getting elected would. Beyond that, I do care about global events and atrocities but when the rubber hits the road neither of them will stop the military industrial machine that runs their economy.

 

[EagleMan87]

Weird thing to say here

The economy can be very strong and still have poor people in it. They're completely separate issues

Of course there will always be disenfranchised people, especially in the US. My point was originally more about progress, and not overlooking Biden's policies helping people.

 

[bourbons]

Both sides as bad as the other. But Dems are worse because they have higher standards.

This, 100%

 

[pjcrows]

So you think a second Trump term would be equivalent to say... a Romney presidency? Or a McCain one?

Are you unable to discern between hyperbole and genuine concerns? Because they both sound the same to you?

I find it interesting you brought up Romney. I remember when the 2012 election was so important because Romney was an existential threat.

 

[pjcrows]

Ok, this is positive.

But have you paused to reflect on it?
Has it made you reconsider any of your positions, views or conscience?

OR... Do you just view it as an optical slip up?

My overall conscience? Calm down mate. It was a fair point and there's certainly nuance in the discussion.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Trump wouldn't have won the previous election. Biden would have. I'd only have one vote.

If you say I support Trump because I'd vote Third Party or not at all, then with all due respect you sound like a child.

I don't think Trump is a threat to democracy. The US "democracy" is essentially an oligarchy. There are so many more pressing issues in that country, none of which will be addressed, hence why their empire is crumbling.

Impact on Australia? World events usually impact Australia, but Trump or Harris getting elected is not going to change my daily life, the life of my family, friends or employment. I think Peter Dutton getting elected would. Beyond that, I do care about global events and atrocities but when the rubber hits the road neither of them will stop the military industrial machine that runs their economy.

Your daily life will be affected if tRump win's as taxes will rise as tRump will withdraw the US military from the pacific which will force the government to raise taxes to pay for more military

 

[pjcrows]

I think you may be factoring in some calculus among Trump supporters that just isn't there, to put it mildly lol

Many would vote for a pot plant with (R) next to it, and most of Trump's 30%-ish base are just cult members at this point.

Absolutely. Which is why I've repeatedly said that half of Trump's base are cultists, and it will be Independents who decide it.

 

[pjcrows]

Your daily life will be affected if tRump win's as taxes will rise as tRump will withdraw the US military from the pacific which will force the government to raise taxes to pay for more military

You think Trump will actually change the global reach of the US military?