USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

[LuvtheKangas]

Both outcomes are the same though.

Correct. It's just that some don't acknowledge it.

Am I making this too hard for you?

 

[Baldur]

Edit: I'll again make the point to you. It's okay just to admit that you don't care enough about a genocide to make it a voting (or non-voting) issue).

Would voting for either party stop it? No

Would not voting stop it? No

So, it is simply not a voting issue. Refusing to vote due to it is simply useless virtue signalling. Protest, demand change, but voting or not voting simply has nothing to do with the issue at present.

Wisdom in part lies in accepting what you cannot change at present instead of wallowing in self-righteousness and allowing one evil to prosper because another cannot be defeated at present.

 

[Millky95]

Read as: "The Democrats hide their bad shit better than Republicans"

They're getting closer JB1975

Both outcomes are the same though.

The issue is the giving of the billions.

I don't know why I hit the show ignored content button but I ****ing hate this "both sides are just as bad argument"

Look at the whole picture of both parties.

 

[Millky95]

Would voting for either party stop it? No

Would not voting stop it? No

So, it is simply not voting issue. Refusing to vote due to it is simply useless virtue signalling. Protest, demand change, but voting or not voting simply has nothing to do with the issue at present.

Wisdom in part lies in accepting what you cannot change at present instead of wallowing in self-righteousness and allowing one evil to prosper because another cannot be defeated at present.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.

 

[pjcrows]

Look at the whole picture of both parties.

Yeah I have, for the last three decades.

Now, because I have a different view to you, put me back on "Ignore", and keep living in your echo chamber.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

I see that your main focus is a humanitarian disaster. The decisive factor for me is the campaign of relentless savagery being perpetrated against innocent people by the US and Israel. It's not something I can overlook, even if I wanted to.

Sigh. No-one is saying you should overlook it. No-one is saying it's not horrendous. It's a serious issue, perhaps the most serious in the world today. Criticism of US policy is absolutely warranted.

But it applies to both US parties, and the GOP under Trump would be as bad, at the very least. But you're going to keep ignoring this as I've made the point consistently and you can't be that stupid as to miss it.

So, you keep virtue signalling and suggesting anyone who argues against you (trying to clarify the point you keep ignoring) "doesn't care about genocide".

 

[JB1975]

Party A: We will fund Israel
Party B: We will fund and actively encourage Israel

People: They are just the same!

Party A: We will fund Israel. We'll give them the hardware with which to butcher thousands. We'll stifle any attempt by the UN to hold Israel to account. We'll ignore international law, and then we'll undermine it by suggesting that it shouldn't apply to our allies. We will crack down on internal dissent against Israeli policy by encouraging the arrest of protestors. We will advocate for a definition of antisemitism which will equate any criticism of Israeli policy with the oldest hate of all. We will ignore the killing of our own citizens in order to avoid Israeli discomfort. We will publicly encourage 'restraint' while doing everything else in our power to accelerate Israeli aggression. We will support the extension of this violence into the sovereign state of Lebanon.

Party B: We will fund and actively encourage Israel.

People: Harris/Walz is a new dawn!

 

[Baldur]

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.

And feel ever so self-righteous about it. In same ways the evil campaigners are more worthy of respect. At least they are honest about it.

 

[JB1975]

Would voting for either party stop it? No

Would not voting stop it? No

So, it is simply not voting issue. Refusing to vote due to it is simply useless virtue signalling. Protest, demand change, but voting or not voting simply has nothing to do with the issue at present.

Wisdom in part lies in accepting what you cannot change at present instead of wallowing in self-righteousness and allowing one evil to prosper because another cannot be defeated at present.

Back to the original point.

A vote acts as positive affirmation. Virtue signaling is a term beneath you, surely, but the vote is a signal of support. For most people, it's all they have in a democracy.

I'm not sure why people should feel obliged to give their support to a regime which acts in ways they find deeply abhorrent.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Party A: We will fund Israel. We'll give them the hardware with which to butcher thousands. We'll stifle any attempt by the UN to hold Israel to account. We'll ignore international law, and then we'll undermine it by suggesting that it shouldn't apply to our allies. We will crack down on internal dissent against Israeli policy by encouraging the arrest of protestors. We will advocate for a definition of antisemitism which will equate any criticism of Israeli policy with the oldest hate of all. We will ignore the killing of our own citizens in order to avoid Israeli discomfort. We will publicly encourage 'restraint' while doing everything else in our power to accelerate Israeli aggression. We will support the extension of this violence into the sovereign state of Lebanon.

Party B: We will fund and actively encourage Israel.

People: Harris/Walz is a new dawn!

The virtue signaller is now running with the straw man argument. LOL.

 

[JB1975]

And feel ever so self-righteous about it. In same ways the evil campaigners are more worthy of respect. At least they are honest about it.

My mistake. You're above nothing at all.

 

[JB1975]

The virtue signaller is now running with the straw man argument. LOL.

You really loaded up on this one. Started strong with 'virtue signaler' but followed through with a powerful claim of 'straw man'.

I was reeling and on the way down when you delivered the LOL. Not just a lol, or Lol...a full-hearted LOL.

You're a beast!

 

[Baldur]

Back to the original point.

A vote acts as positive affirmation. Virtue signaling is a term beneath you, surely, but the vote is a signal of support. For most people, it's all they have in a democracy.

I'm not sure why people should feel obliged to give their support to a regime which acts in ways they find deeply abhorrent.

Voting against Trump can stop other evils. There is not only one issue. If for you there is only one issue. You do not care about democracy, Ukraine, abortion, racism, immigration, etc. If you only care about opposing those bad Jews than fair enough, I guess. But save us the self-righteous rubbish.

 

[pjcrows]

Voting against Trump can stop other evils. There is not only one issue. If for you there is only one issue. You do not care about democracy, Ukraine, abortion, racism, immigration, etc. You only care about opposing those bad Jews than fair enough, I guess. But save us the self-righteous rubbish.

And there it is.

 

[Baldur]

And there it is.

Yep, at same stage one does have to wonder if for some the anti Israel thing is just racism. I get that Israel is acting very badly, but making this the only issue does smell of racism.

 

[JB1975]

Voting against Trump can stop other evils. There is not only one issue. If for you there is only one issue. You do not care about democracy, Ukraine, abortion, racism, immigration, etc. You only care about opposing those bad Jews than fair enough, I guess. But save us the self-righteous rubbish.

This is the posting version of a Trumpian dummy-spit.

The bolded in particular tells me that you have nothing of substance to say and that you'd rather throw around juvenile and tired aspersions.

 

[JB1975]

Yep, at same stage one does have to wonder if for some the anti Israel thing is just racism. I get that Israel is acting very badly, but making this the only issue does smell of racism.

Of course, all of those Jews who have the same antipathy towards US policy are just 'self-hating', aren't they?

You can just go ahead and call the kapos as well if you like.

The fact that many people happen to be anti-genocide, and especially opposed to their government's support for it, doesn't seem to cross your mind.

Not antisemitic. Not even anti-Israel. Anti-genocide.

 

[Baldur]

This is the posting version of a Trumpian dummy-spit.

The bolded in particular tells me that you have nothing of substance to say and that you'd rather throw around juvenile and tired aspersions.

Why is the Israeli genocide of Palestinians the only genocide you appear to care about. The Russian genocide of Ukrainians is also occurring. A Trump victory aids both, Harris only one.

 

[JB1975]

Why is the Israeli genocide of Palestinians the only genocide you appear to care about. The Russian genocide of Ukrainians is also occurring. A Trump victory aids both, Harris only one.

Think before you post.

1. Russia's invasion of Ukraine is bad, but it is not a genocide. In particular, it does not involve the targeting of civilians to anywhere near the same extent.

2. I've repeatedly pointed out that the issue is not simply about Israel's actions. It is also very much about the active US support for those actions.

 

[Episode IV]

I wonder if there are any conflicts going on around the globe which qualify as being war anymore.
Perhaps the word "war" isn't emotive enough to make an argument out of.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I'll be honest, I'm having trouble thinking about what I'd do if I had a vote in this election.

It isn't that Kamala isn't simply an inspiring candidate. For many, she's a deeply problematic option.

I feel that 'the system' (for lack of a better term) is so fundamentally beyond repair and I despair at the possibility of meaningful change, but I also see that this creates the danger of shrinking the differences between candidates.

Is there a fatalistic impulse? Is it that a second-term Trump gives a 'f*** you' to the entire charade? By not voting Dem in this election, does it amount to the same thing as a vote for Trump in 2016?

I'll keep arguing with myself and let you know the result.

America is rapidly going down the gurgler. Harris won't make much difference. Trump will turbocharge the decline.

If I were a Yank, I'd certainly be getting out to vote for Harris.

 

[JB1975]

America is rapidly going down the gurgler. Harris won't make much difference. Trump will turbocharge the decline.

If I were a Yank, I'd certainly be getting out to vote for Harris.

I think that's fair enough.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

You really loaded up on this one. Started strong with 'virtue signaler' but followed through with a powerful claim of 'straw man'.

I was reeling and on the way down when you delivered the LOL. Not just a lol, or Lol...a full-hearted LOL.

You're a beast!

Yes, I realise you're not completely stupid so you weren't missing the obvious and compelling argument that I was making, just ignoring it. And you resorted to suggesting that I don't care about genocide.

It's also clear that you know you made a straw man argument, which is why you've made this pathetic attempt at laughing it off rather than acknowledging it. (On the off chance that you are more stupid than I thought, consider that literally no-one has argued, in the context of their Middle East policy, that "Harris/Walz is a new dawn!")

LOL, it's hilarious where this got to.

 

[Festerz]

If there is a God/Gods then he/she/they have a lot to answer for in terms of what's happening in the world right now on their behalf.

Take a listen to this deranged fraud - in a tailor-made vinyl suit of the US flag FFS. And he's not an outlier in terms of the MAGA cult.

 

[Baldur]

Think before you post.

1. Russia's invasion of Ukraine is bad, but it is not a genocide. In particular, it does not involve the targeting of civilians to anywhere near the same extent.

2. I've repeatedly pointed out that the issue is not simply about Israel's actions. It is also very much about the active US support for those actions.

Attacks on civilians in the Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Allegations of genocide of Ukrainians in the Russo-Ukrainian War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

War crimes in the Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Child abductions in the Russo-Ukrainian War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Report of the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine

https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/coiukraine/A_HRC_52_62_AUV_EN.pdf

Situation in Ukraine: ICC judges issue arrest warrants against Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin and Maria Alekseyevna Lvova-Belova

Today, 17 March 2023, Pre-Trial Chamber II of the International Criminal Court (“ICC” or “the Court”) issued warrants of arrest for two individuals in the context of the situation in Ukraine: Mr Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin and Ms Maria Alekseyevna Lvova-Belova. Mr Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin...

www.icc-cpi.int

1 year into the Israel-Hamas war: The grim human toll by the numbers

Monday marks 1 year of the Israel-Hamas war. Here's a look at the tragic human toll by the numbers, including deaths and injuries and the state of getting aid into Gaza.

abcnews.go.com

This report comprises an independent inquiry into whether the Russian Federation bears State responsibility for breaches of the Genocide Convention in its invasion of Ukraine

https://newlinesinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/English-Report.pdf

Genocide Convention - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Article 2 of the Convention defines genocide as:

... any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
— Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2

Ukraine has an army so many attacks are directed at it. Nevertheless, Russia is committing genocide, their aim is to destroy Ukrainian nationhood, identity, and language. The civilian death toll is estimated to be around 40,000 in both cases. Putin has an ICC warrant issued re deportation of children, said children are taught they are Russian and adopted by Russian families.