USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

[Blue1980]

View attachment 2156894

Ohh yes, Piers needs a live audience

 

[Blue1980]

He always brings on the worst possible people from both sides. It's unwatchable.

He’s had on a fair few people I like, but yeah it just encourages crazy angry yelling.

Mehdi Hasan does well on there, I don’t know how I wouldn’t lose my shit vs some of the insane right wing grifters on there.

I’m not a big fan of Destiny (agree on a fair bit with him though) but he does suit that kind of forum ripping bad faith right wing talking points.

 

[Blue1980]

No. That is your false interpretation of what I have written because you are caught in the same binary trap that so many others are, namely that:

criticism of the Zelensky regime immediately implies support for Putin and the criminal invasion that he initiated in Feb 2022 of Ukraine.

But this assumption is completely wrong, because the world is not binary, yes or no, up or down.

All capitalist regimes, ie Zelensky's, Putin's, the Biden/Harris (or Trump??) regime, the Starmer regime, the Macron regime, the Albanese regime,...., all are criminal. Why? Because they defend capitalism. It is capitalism which is the beast that must be slayed.

Capitalism is the source of genocide, the threat of nuclear annihilation, the threat of fascism, the complete refusal to address climate change and pandemics....

Any individual capitalist government is only one facet of the gigantic monstrous whole.

I never said the world was binary. You are the one saying in a very binary way, that all capitalist regimes are criminal. Doesn’t seem to leave much room for nuance.

However I am curious, what governments in the world currently, would you consider not criminal?

 

[Young Redleg]

He’s had on a fair few people I like, but yeah it just encourages crazy angry yelling.

Mehdi Hasan does well on there, I don’t know how I wouldn’t lose my shit vs some of the insane right wing grifters on there.

I’m not a big fan of Destiny (agree on a fair bit with him though) but he does suit that kind of forum ripping bad faith right wing talking points.

Yep I fully respect anyone who is able to sit through a debate with Sarah Palin. I lost nearly all my brain cells just listening to her.

 

[Satan]

Fans on the no tax on tips

Spoiler: Language

https://meidasnews.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:eco%2Cw_700/MjEwNDAwNjA2MTgxOTI2NzM3/amber-rose.webp

 

[Blue1980]

Yep I fully respect anyone who is able to sit through a debate with Sarah Palin. I lost nearly all my brain cells just listening to her.

She was so totally out of her depth on the show I saw her on, wasn’t aware that she was walking into debate as bloodsport.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Would you admit Trump is in your head rent free?

Rapists just have that knack, don’t they.

 

[jatz14]

No. That is your false interpretation of what I have written because you are caught in the same binary trap that so many others are, namely that:

criticism of the Zelensky regime immediately implies support for Putin and the criminal invasion that he initiated in Feb 2022 of Ukraine.

But this assumption is completely wrong, because the world is not binary, yes or no, up or down.

All capitalist regimes, ie Zelensky's, Putin's, the Biden/Harris (or Trump??) regime, the Starmer regime, the Macron regime, the Albanese regime,...., all are criminal. Why? Because they defend capitalism. It is capitalism which is the beast that must be slayed.

Capitalism is the source of genocide, the threat of nuclear annihilation, the threat of fascism, the complete refusal to address climate change and pandemics....

Any individual capitalist government is only one facet of the gigantic monstrous whole.

If your a body purity do not believe in modern medicine nut job, trying to convince your wife not to take chemo for her breast cancer, and to instead meditate in a corner going UMMMMM.

You may not like the cancer, you may not approve of the cancer, you may want the cancer to go away, but you are supporting it. If the cancer could express its wishes, it would want more people like you.

Thats you and Putin.

 

[KingNorth23]

Rapists just have that knack, don’t they.

Grown ass man spending 24:7 on a thread rambling on about lies

 

[Blue1980]

If your a body purity do not believe in modern medicine nut job, trying to convince your wife not to take chemo for her breast cancer, and to instead meditate in a corner going UMMMMM.

You may not like the cancer, you may not approve of the cancer, you may want the cancer to go away, but you are supporting it. If the cancer could express its wishes, it would want more people like you.

Thats you and Putin.

Equating Australia, France, Ukraine etc. with Russia saying all capitalist and equally evil is just fatalistic and counter productive.

It would be like just going **** it in WWII, the nazis May as well win cos the US, Soviet Union and UK had issues with democracy/fascism etc, so just as bad as Nazi germany.

 

[FireKrakouer]

The idea of a “lesser evil” in the context of this election is an absurdity. While one candidate promotes fascism, the other is running on a platform that includes support for war and genocide.

The ""choice" confronting US voters is a choice between two paths both leading to catastrophe.

Both parties are deeply implicated in the dismantling of democratic rights and the turn to dictatorship. The Biden-Harris administration has itself overseen a wave of arrests and expulsions of students protesting against the Israeli genocide in Gaza. Both parties support the militarization of the state to quash dissent, whether that means cracking down on anti-war protests or mobilizing the police against striking workers.

Climate change is driving unprecedented ecological disasters, including two major hurricanes that have hit the United States over the past two months, producing devastating floods. Scientists warn of an escalating and existential crisis, but neither party will address the issue in a serious way, as any genuine response to climate change would threaten the interests of the corporations that fund both parties. The Democrats have abandoned even their token gestures, while the Republicans openly dismiss climate change as a hoax.

War, inequality and dictatorship: The critical issues excluded from the 2024 election

There is a pervasive sense that the political system is dysfunctional, incapable of responding to the needs of the people and heading toward violent domestic conflict.

www.wsws.org

And so if this is the sun setting on an empire, why not enjoy the show? I say let’s pick the most entertaining option.

Imagine Harris as the smooth-talking preacher, selling a message everyone knows is empty and hypocritical, but she delivers it with polish. Trump, on the other hand, is the blunt, elderly uncle in the back row, cracking jokes, letting out a loud fart, and suggesting a night at the strippers.

Suddenly, the church catches fire. Harris, standing at the altar, says, “Actually, if you look closely, this fire isn’t so bad. In fact, if you consider these statistics, we’re safer now than ever. If anyone’s responsible, it’s him,” nodding toward Trump.

From the back, Trump shouts, “This place wouldn’t be burning if I were still running things. Forget the strippers—who’s up for a night at the casino?”

Meanwhile, outside the church, an orphanage is engulfed in flames to the east and a hospital burns to the west. Harris and Trump eventually leave the church with their pockets stuffed with money from the collection plate. They use it to buy gasoline, which they throw onto the flames at the orphanage and hospital.

Inside the church, the regular people are too wrapped up in fierce arguments over trans people in sports to notice the fire closing in on them.

 

[IlovethePies]

I never said the world was binary. You are the one saying in a very binary way, that all capitalist regimes are criminal. Doesn’t seem to leave much room for nuance.

However I am curious, what governments in the world currently, would you consider not criminal?

It is necessary to view the world as the product of class struggle, between the only progressive force in society (the international working class) and the capitalist financial oligarcy, which is based within its respective nation states.

The division of the globalised economy into rival nation states all competing for the interests of their own capitalist class, and the existence of a massive system of social production on a world scale, producing incredible social wealth which is then seized by a miniscule captialist elite which then uses this wealth for its own private, selfish class interests, is the only standpoint from which to view reality.

From this standpoint, all governments currently are criminal in a fundamental historical and social sense: they defend the class interests of the dominant class, ie the capitalist financial and corporate oligarchy.

But the profit system is now in irreversible crisis, and that is why the US and European capitalist elites are supporting war, war against Russia (to be followed by war against China) along with war against Iran (which is being prepared by the genocide in Gaza, which all US/NATO governments support).

Therefore, with the above in mind, my answer to your question is that every government in the world is criminal because the capitalist system as a whole is historically bankrupt and a threat to human civilisation.

This means every government. Let me name a few for the sake of clarity: the Biden/Harris/Trump (?) administration, the Putin regime, the CCP in China, the Zelensky regime, the Albanese government, the Swedish government....
I hope you get the picture.

 

[Blue1980]

Grown ass man spending 24:7 on a thread rambling on about lies

Calm down, here is a cheery song for you

 

[GreyCrow]

In this context or generally?

Carn mate its always context - havent you learnt anything in the last 7 hours

 

[KingNorth23]

Calm down, here is a cheery song for you

Just displayed one of the guys here 24:7 and your on that top 3 basis

 

[Blue1980]

It is necessary to view the world as the product of class struggle, between the only progressive force in society (the international working class) and the capitalist financial oligarcy, which is based within its respective nation states.

The division of the globalised economy into rival nation states all competing for the interests of their own capitalist class, and the existence of a massive system of social production on a world scale, producing incredible social wealth which is then seized by a miniscule captialist elite which then uses this wealth for its own private, selfish class interests, is the only standpoint from which to view reality.

From this standpoint, all governments currently are criminal in a fundamental historical and social sense: they defend the class interests of the dominant class, ie the capitalist financial and corporate oligarchy.

But the profit system is now in irreversible crisis, and that is why the US and European capitalist elites are supporting war, war against Russia (to be followed by war against China) along with war against Iran (which is being prepared by the genocide in Gaza, which all US/NATO governments support).

Therefore, with the above in mind, my answer to your question is that every government in the world is criminal because the capitalist system as a whole is historically bankrupt and a threat to human civilisation.

This means every government. Let me name a few for the sake of clarity: the Biden/Harris/Trump (?) administration, the Putin regime, the CCP in China, the Zelensky regime, the Albanese government, the Swedish government....
I hope you get the picture.

I do get you and your perspective. I just think it’s fatalistic.

Sweden <> Russia in this world view. It seems you want total worldwide revolution and anything outside of that is pointless.

We can make things better and keep working towards progress, I fear your perspective just leads to people being demoralised and giving up.

 

[Blue1980]

Just displayed one of the guys here 24:7 and your on that top 3 basis

What can I say, this is like my Olympics.

The song is catchy isn’t it?

 

[IlovethePies]

If your a body purity do not believe in modern medicine nut job, trying to convince your wife not to take chemo for her breast cancer, and to instead meditate in a corner going UMMMMM.

You may not like the cancer, you may not approve of the cancer, you may want the cancer to go away, but you are supporting it. If the cancer could express its wishes, it would want more people like you.

Thats you and Putin.

In view of this comment, it is clear that you understand nothing of what I write. Will place you on ignore because you are completely incoherent.

 

[KingNorth23]

What can I say, this is like my Olympics.

The song is catchy isn’t it?

Really? Then you are either fasting yourself or stuffing yourself with food on this thread all day. If this is the Olympics then sign out for the first time today and go for a swim.

 

[IlovethePies]

I do get you and your perspective. I just think it’s fatalistic.

Sweden <> Russia in this world view. It seems you want total worldwide revolution and anything outside of that is pointless.

We can make things better and keep working towards progress, I fear your perspective just leads to people being demoralised and giving up.

You nailed it. That is what is necessary: World Socialist Revolution. The working class must find a way to unite its struggles across national borders and overthrow all these criminal governments who are defending a social system which will lead to barbarism unless it is replaced by socialism, the next stage of human history.

The choice for mankind today is: socialism or barbarism.

 

[Blue1980]

Really? Then you are either fasting yourself or stuffing yourself with food on this thread all day. If this is the Olympics then sign out for the first time today and go for a swim.

I’ve been for a couple of walks with the dog, spent the afternoon with friends, and heading to the gym now, but can still reply to you between sets as I might miss you.

 

[Blue1980]

You nailed it. That is what is necessary: World Socialist Revolution. The working class must find a way to unite its struggles across national borders and overthrow all these criminal governments who are defending a social system which will lead to barbarism unless it is replaced by socialism, the next stage of human history.

The choice for mankind today is: socialism or barbarism.

Thing is, I did know this was your overall long term vision for the world, and yes it would be a good end result to have a version of that.

However I think we disagree on how we get there. I think you need to take people on a journey to mentally get their heads around it. Otherwise it is just rejected outright.

 

[IlovethePies]

Thing is, I did know this was your overall long term vision for the world, and yes it would be a good end result to have a version of that.

However I think we disagree on how we get there. I think you need to take people on a journey to mentally get their heads around it. Otherwise it is just rejected outright.

Thanks for this, a good suggestion. Initially, I have been just trying to explain that the perspective of World Socialist Revolution is the only way out of the crisis we confront. By "we", I mean literally, the entire world.

The result (or non-result) of the US election, either way, will create a shock wave throughout the entire world.

But yes, maybe I should start explaining how I think this perspective could be developed and ultimately carried out.

 

[IlovethePies]

And so if this is the sun setting on an empire, why not enjoy the show? I say let’s pick the most entertaining option.

Imagine Harris as the smooth-talking preacher, selling a message everyone knows is empty and hypocritical, but she delivers it with polish. Trump, on the other hand, is the blunt, elderly uncle in the back row, cracking jokes, letting out a loud fart, and suggesting a night at the strippers.

Suddenly, the church catches fire. Harris, standing at the altar, says, “Actually, if you look closely, this fire isn’t so bad. In fact, if you consider these statistics, we’re safer now than ever. If anyone’s responsible, it’s him,” nodding toward Trump.

From the back, Trump shouts, “This place wouldn’t be burning if I were still running things. Forget the strippers—who’s up for a night at the casino?”

Meanwhile, outside the church, an orphanage is engulfed in flames to the east and a hospital burns to the west. Harris and Trump eventually leave the church with their pockets stuffed with money from the collection plate. They use it to buy gasoline, which they throw onto the flames at the orphanage and hospital.

Inside the church, the regular people are too wrapped up in fierce arguments over trans people in sports to notice the fire closing in on them.

In this somewhat cynical depiction of reality, you have indeed captured an essential element of reality. Your portrayal of Harris and Trump involves a very clear and accurate metaphor.

However, I must oppose the defeatist tone of your post. How can we just sit back, crunching popcorn and "enjoy the show"? The fate of the entire world is entirely dependent on the historic crisis now unfolding within the cockpit of world imperialism, the US.

The fate not just of the population within the US, but that of the entire world, is in the balance. What unfolds next in the US will send shock waves across the entire global political and economic system.

The standpoint of simply observing what is happening is bankrupt. It simply allows the existing ruling elite to sort out the crisis in their own interests.

Instead, the standpoint of seeking a means for intervening and changing reality, in the interests of the vast majority of the world's population, is the only salvation for mankind.

 

[DaTBird187]

Calm down, here is a cheery song for you

The total boss move would be for Trump to win the election and then deport all three of them.