List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

We have 2 of the last 4 Coleman medallists, that covers 5 yrs, a 2x Brownlow medallist, and have only won 2 of the past 11 games.

Something is seriously wrong with that math.
Let me help with you with the the arithmetic - it takes 22 players to play a game not counting the sub - that is more than the 4-5 A graders ( when they are all fit and available). You know 22-6 = 16 other players ...

maybe it is the 16 other players who are a bit of the problem with the W/L ratio..


just a thought.
 
Dangle Harry to *, they'd wet themselves for the opportunity to bring the brothers together, and probably/definately pay overs, notwithstanding DoDo is bye bye! First and second round pick would do it, or first and future first for a Coleman Medallist!!
Why not add Weitering to the offer
 
Let me help with you with the the arithmetic - it takes 22 players to play a game not counting the sub - that is more than the 4-5 A graders ( when they are all fit and available). You know 22-6 = 16 other players ...

maybe it is the 16 other players who are a bit of the problem with the W/L ratio..


just a thought.
Well done, that was my point
 
Let me help with you with the the arithmetic - it takes 22 players to play a game not counting the sub - that is more than the 4-5 A graders ( when they are all fit and available). You know 22-6 = 16 other players ...

maybe it is the 16 other players who are a bit of the problem with the W/L ratio..


just a thought.
You may be right. I think there’s too big a gap between our top paid and our other 16 or so players as you’ve mentioned. It’s pretty difficult to bring in 3 or 4 players with 2nd round picks like so many other teams do here and there on a wage of 500k - 600k or so when we have Cripps, Walsh, Weitering, Charlie, Harry, TDK all on really big money as well as Williams.

Can’t attract those types of you cannot pay them.

Somehow the spread just isn’t right
 
You may be right. I think there’s too big a gap between our top paid and our other 16 or so players as you’ve mentioned. It’s pretty difficult to bring in 3 or 4 players with 2nd round picks like so many other teams do here and there on a wage of 500k - 600k or so when we have Cripps, Walsh, Weitering, Charlie, Harry, TDK all on really big money as well as Williams.

Can’t attract those types of you cannot pay them.

Somehow the spread just isn’t right
O Hollands is learning how to play HBF
Lucas C has played 2 AFL games
Lord has played <5 games
Young cant kick
Haynes is 2 games in with Carlton
Kemp is learning how to play forward with < 5 games in AFL there


Walsh is coming back from injury ( again )
Charlie is coming back from injury ( again)
Harry didnt play / had bad knee

that is 9 / 22 less than fit and/or developing in AFL players

now understand the fact that

Williams/Motlop/Cottrell/Fogarty arent 'real' small forwards and have played < 5 games all together anyway

that means that 13 /22 playwers are seriouysly in makeyuppy land every time the team goes out to play..

No surprises everything looks disjointed and lacks cohesion - none. Big differene between pre-season in house training and real game execution.

Reads strange - but the reality is that this team has lacked continuity for the last 3 years and is now ( again) making do with all sorts of repurposed compromises through every line on the ground....

Carltons starting 22 have so many developing players or refitted players or just inexperienced players across ALL lines - at the same time the attacking weapons Charlie/Harry havent been on the ground together yet.

All this is pretty simple stuff to put together- but on BF in thsis forum people are in a competition regarding who is hurting more and who can make the angriest sounds about coaches/list management/etc etc etc

Admittedly - the loss to Richmond was FUGLY. The loss to Hawthorn is something I to take on the chin at this stage of the year.

The real culprit is the fact that the list is unbalanced and the Club has been relying on piure effort to make up for lack of class ad cohesion since Voss arrived and continues to do so...

Until we get a genuine 2nd KPD
Until forward craft is improved in the not Harry not Charlie mix
Until the side gets some continuity together

Every game will be a grind and results will be a lottery.

It is a pity the Club wans't able to win against Richmond- this loss has put even more pressure on coaching and players - as if it wasn't there already.
 
What I find bizarre, we finally move on injury prone players, yet also move on consistent, durable, experienced 22 players
Austin and whoever backed that call where in lala land - less concerned about Owies but dumping Kennedy like that ...woweee just wowee..
 
Agree with some parts but not all, but these points in particular I want to comment on:

Williams/Motlop/Cottrell/Fogarty arent 'real' small forwards and have played < 5 games all together anyway
Motlop is a real small forward, played there as a junior and has always played there at AFL level. The rest clearly aren't and I think it's a problem. Not a small, but you can add Kemp to the list.
Until forward craft is improved in the not Harry not Charlie mix
This ties in with the above really, but 100% agree the forward craft isn't there, but I'd go even further. I don't think Charlie or Harry actually have great forward craft themselves. They have other elite attributes that come through, but when it comes to craft inside 50 I don't feel like either of them are particularly clever with how they move and play inside 50. Combined with the rest of the makeshift forwards there's just nothing there.

JSOS is the only player on our list perhaps that I would say has some natural forward IQ, without having seen Lemmy or any others that may be in the 2s.

It is a pity the Club wans't able to win against Richmond- this loss has put even more pressure on coaching and players - as if it wasn't there already.
Unfortunately, this is a win-loss industry, and when you're up by 41 points only to lose, to the wooden spooners no less, that's absolutely worthy of criticism and pressure. Doubly so when the club outwardly expresses that the expectation is top 4. In a vacuum the Hawks loss would've been fine had we beat Richmond, but we didn't.
 
Austin and whoever backed that call where in lala land - less concerned about Owies but dumping Kennedy like that ...woweee just wowee..

I didn't want Kennedy to go but is it really a big deal? He is another inside mid with little leg speed. The same thing many on here are complaining about is our problem. Voss was using him as a bit parts player

I really liked him but if he stayed would we be any better? Probably not

Our issues are much deeper than one player and we did get Harry O'Farrell (A KPP everyone agreed we needed to draft) for him and more room in the SC
 
I didn't want Kennedy to go but is it really a big deal? He is another inside mid with little leg speed. The same thing many on here are complaining about is our problem. Voss was using him as a bit parts player

I really liked him but if he stayed would we be any better? Probably not

Our issues are much deeper than one player and we did get Harry O'Farrell (A KPP everyone agreed we needed to draft) for him and more room in the SC
kennedy fits in nicely at the dogs but they have heaps of runners and good ball movement in general.

Will be interesting to see how it unfolds when the Bont returns.
 
I didn't want Kennedy to go but is it really a big deal? He is another inside mid with little leg speed. The same thing many on here are complaining about is our problem. Voss was using him as a bit parts player

I really liked him but if he stayed would we be any better? Probably not

Our issues are much deeper than one player and we did get Harry O'Farrell (A KPP everyone agreed we needed to draft) for him and more room in the SC
While I didn’t necessarily want Kennedy to go as he’s a solid AFL footballer, I think the logic was out another contested slow mid (which we have an oversupply of) and in Jagga as a quick and agile modern midfielder. The logic was sound but unfortunately it all went up in smoke on an innocuous knee knock in a practice game. Just very bad luck.
 
While I didn’t necessarily want Kennedy to go as he’s a solid AFL footballer, I think the logic was out another contested slow mid (which we have an oversupply of) and in Jagga as a quick and agile modern midfielder. The logic was sound but unfortunately it all went up in smoke on an innocuous knee knock in a practice game. Just very bad luck.

We also had Lord coming up (plus Ben Campo) who we are stuggling to fit in as well. IMO it was the right decision
 
Let me help with you with the the arithmetic - it takes 22 players to play a game not counting the sub - that is more than the 4-5 A graders ( when they are all fit and available). You know 22-6 = 16 other players ...

maybe it is the 16 other players who are a bit of the problem with the W/L ratio..


just a thought.
Every club has its role players... blah blah blah...
 
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O Hollands is learning how to play HBF
Lucas C has played 2 AFL games
Lord has played <5 games
Young cant kick
Haynes is 2 games in with Carlton
Kemp is learning how to play forward with < 5 games in AFL there


Walsh is coming back from injury ( again )
Charlie is coming back from injury ( again)
Harry didnt play / had bad knee

that is 9 / 22 less than fit and/or developing in AFL players

now understand the fact that

Williams/Motlop/Cottrell/Fogarty arent 'real' small forwards and have played < 5 games all together anyway

that means that 13 /22 playwers are seriouysly in makeyuppy land every time the team goes out to play..

No surprises everything looks disjointed and lacks cohesion - none. Big differene between pre-season in house training and real game execution.

Reads strange - but the reality is that this team has lacked continuity for the last 3 years and is now ( again) making do with all sorts of repurposed compromises through every line on the ground....

Carltons starting 22 have so many developing players or refitted players or just inexperienced players across ALL lines - at the same time the attacking weapons Charlie/Harry havent been on the ground together yet.

All this is pretty simple stuff to put together- but on BF in thsis forum people are in a competition regarding who is hurting more and who can make the angriest sounds about coaches/list management/etc etc etc

Admittedly - the loss to Richmond was FUGLY. The loss to Hawthorn is something I to take on the chin at this stage of the year.

The real culprit is the fact that the list is unbalanced and the Club has been relying on piure effort to make up for lack of class ad cohesion since Voss arrived and continues to do so...

Until we get a genuine 2nd KPD
Until forward craft is improved in the not Harry not Charlie mix
Until the side gets some continuity together

Every game will be a grind and results will be a lottery.

It is a pity the Club wans't able to win against Richmond- this loss has put even more pressure on coaching and players - as if it wasn't there already.
From a previous post I thought you were saying one thing but you are really saying another. Cohesion and balance aren't the issues, ability is.
 
Austin and whoever backed that call where in lala land - less concerned about Owies but dumping Kennedy like that ...woweee just wowee..

Truly bizarre

Austin picks up Lord, who I like, but is less versatile than Kennedy and really isn't blessed with speed

Owies, yes played more as a marking forward, but always found space unlike our other small forwards

Even our footy IQ decreased

But apparently we have youth in those positions ready to go

Mind blowing decisions
 
Truly bizarre

Austin picks up Lord, who I like, but is less versatile than Kennedy and really isn't blessed with speed

Owies, yes played more as a marking forward, but always found space unlike our other small forwards

Even our footy IQ decreased

But apparently we have youth in those positions ready to go

Mind blowing decisions
Probably saved $700k in the cap but.
 
While I didn’t necessarily want Kennedy to go as he’s a solid AFL footballer, I think the logic was out another contested slow mid (which we have an oversupply of) and in Jagga as a quick and agile modern midfielder. The logic was sound but unfortunately it all went up in smoke on an innocuous knee knock in a practice game. Just very bad luck.

If you look over next 3-4 years our midfield could be Walsh Cerra Lord BenCampo Smith Wilson Elijah. On paper it is very balanced and looks good. And that is without adding anyone else
 
In terms of future targets, I know he's been mentioned, but I'd been in for us targeting Kane Farrell. I've liked him (or disliked, given my hate for Port) since his first couple of games. His kicking is elite, and can kick 60m off a step. He'd immediately be in our top 2 or 3 kicks, if not #1.
 
Probably saved $700k in the cap but.

If we believe moving on Kennedy & Owies and bringing in O'Farrell and creating more spots plus having more SC room to keep TDK and maybe get others this year then we have problems I don't undertsand

In the bigger picture I agree with the changes.

Let's be honest. Both good handy players but neither are irreplacable or make us discernibly better and we have much bigger issues
 
I didn't want Kennedy to go but is it really a big deal? He is another inside mid with little leg speed. The same thing many on here are complaining about is our problem. Voss was using him as a bit parts player

I really liked him but if he stayed would we be any better? Probably not

Our issues are much deeper than one player and we did get Harry O'Farrell (A KPP everyone agreed we needed to draft) for him and more room in the SC

Kennedy was more developed and more flexible than teh kids who are in development mode is the only point I am trying to make within the context of supporters expectations versus results so far. All good if teh CLub is IN development mode given the number of 'developing' players on the list and even playing firsts - but that doesn't translate into top4 or even guaranteed finals - given the reality of the list ex the top 6-7 players.

Anyway that is why I am not really angry about where we are atm - except I was very angry about the nature of the Richmond loss - that was really bad- but as we have seen with other results in teh first two rounds - happens every year.
 
For all the talk about stars Newcombe is as good as Cripps now and he uses it better. Yes Cripps has a reputation and is "seen" more but I think Newcombe is as good.
You've literally taken this almost word for word from Heath Bucks latest video lmao. Absolute rubbish.

There's a reason Hawthorn were tagging Cripps and we were manning up Day. Newcombes a very good player but not in the same league as players like Cripps and Bont etc who if left unchecked destroy games.

Newcombe plays some fantastic games and some bang on average ones.
 
From a previous post I thought you were saying one thing but you are really saying another. Cohesion and balance aren't the issues, ability is.
Oh don't get me wrong - there are too many players in Carlton firsts that are really not that good - we need to be adjust expectations big time. Especially the idea that coaches need to make teh team into a running kicking modern football team- as if coaches can make players do stuff they are just not good enough to execute consistently.

Fix the list is where I have been for 2 years + now and ther are no 'easy' fixes unfortunately - which is why the minority of posters on here ( many who often disagree with each other) agreed on the 'reach for Jagga irrespective of how 'good' he will be one day...didnt really mesh with where the list is right now.
 

List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

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