List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

[blues4flag]

Austin has not landed one pick outside the first round other than maybe cowan. I don't regard motlop as successful. Compared to even average clubs it is a complete failure.

It's a small sample size and a very simplistic argument that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

These are the players he's chosen (ignoring last season's draft as way too early to tell):

Corey Durdin (37)
Jack Carroll (41)
Jesse Motlop (27)
Ollie Hollands (11)
Lachie Cowan (30)
Jaxon Binns (32)
Harry Lemmey (47)
Ashton Moir (29)

Too early to judge Moir, he was always going to be a slow burn.

Looking at the players taken around or after all those picks, not many have come on.

Durdin has played more games than every non-academy draftee taken after him expect for Beau McCreery (who would have been a great get).

Too early to judge Motlop, but again pretty slim pickings after him. Curtis at 35 was a missed opportunity.

Cowan at 30 has played more games than every player taken after pick 19 in the draft, except Noah Long (who's just clinging to a spot at West Coast). Binns has struggled but who taken after him has established themselves in the side?

A fairer argument would be whether it was the right call to trade out of the first round. We traded pick 8 for Saad - Reid, Pedlar, Bruhn and Powell were the next 4 picks. Powell's developing into a good player but not what we need, dodged a bullet with Bruhn. Pedlar would be handy up forward, but hard to argue Saad hasn't been a more than handy pickup.

Cerra, while no flop (especially if he gets over his injury concerns), was probably a mistake in hindsight. Few players would suit our list more than Wanganeen-Milera.

We could have been more aggressive trading for top end picks, but that's an entirely different discussion. The reality is, picks outside the top 20 have a very low strike rate, and 2-3 out of 7 would be inline with AFL averages, if not exceeding expectations.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

It's a small sample size and a very simplistic argument that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

These are the players he's chosen (ignoring last season's draft as way too early to tell):

Corey Durdin (37)
Jack Carroll (41)
Jesse Motlop (27)
Ollie Hollands (11)
Lachie Cowan (30)
Jaxon Binns (32)
Harry Lemmey (47)
Ashton Moir (29)

Too early to judge Moir, he was always going to be a slow burn.

Looking at the players taken around or after all those picks, not many have come on.

Durdin has played more games than every non-academy draftee taken after him expect for Beau McCreery (who would have been a great get).

Too early to judge Motlop, but again pretty slim pickings after him. Curtis at 35 was a missed opportunity.

Cowan at 30 has played more games than every player taken after pick 19 in the draft, except Noah Long (who's just clinging to a spot at West Coast). Binns has struggled but who taken after him has established themselves in the side?

A fairer argument would be whether it was the right call to trade out of the first round. We traded pick 8 for Saad - Reid, Pedlar, Bruhn and Powell were the next 4 picks. Powell's developing into a good player but not what we need, dodged a bullet with Bruhn. Pedlar would be handy up forward, but hard to argue Saad hasn't been a more than handy pickup.

Cerra, while no flop (especially if he gets over his injury concerns), was probably a mistake in hindsight. Few players would suit our list more than Wanganeen-Milera.

We could have been more aggressive trading for top end picks, but that's an entirely different discussion. The reality is, picks outside the top 20 have a very low strike rate, and 2-3 out of 7 would be inline with AFL averages, if not exceeding expectations.

Yeah I pointed this out in the list management thread...

Easy to criticise but they couldn't come up with better alternatives... apparently we'd be a better side with Richards and Gallagher instead of Binns and Lemmey

The real criticism should fall on SOS for his failure at recruiting mids...

Dow (3), LOB (10), SPS (6), Setterfield (43), Fisher (27), Kennedy (28), Stocker (19), Philp (20)

All not at the club any more... look at the draft picks we used for them... Walsh is the only one remaining, a pick 1 and a safe pick at that.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

It's a small sample size and a very simplistic argument that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

These are the players he's chosen (ignoring last season's draft as way too early to tell):

Corey Durdin (37)
Jack Carroll (41)
Jesse Motlop (27)
Ollie Hollands (11)
Lachie Cowan (30)
Jaxon Binns (32)
Harry Lemmey (47)
Ashton Moir (29)

Too early to judge Moir, he was always going to be a slow burn.

Looking at the players taken around or after all those picks, not many have come on.

Durdin has played more games than every non-academy draftee taken after him expect for Beau McCreery (who would have been a great get).

Too early to judge Motlop, but again pretty slim pickings after him. Curtis at 35 was a missed opportunity.

Cowan at 30 has played more games than every player taken after pick 19 in the draft, except Noah Long (who's just clinging to a spot at West Coast). Binns has struggled but who taken after him has established themselves in the side?

A fairer argument would be whether it was the right call to trade out of the first round. We traded pick 8 for Saad - Reid, Pedlar, Bruhn and Powell were the next 4 picks. Powell's developing into a good player but not what we need, dodged a bullet with Bruhn. Pedlar would be handy up forward, but hard to argue Saad hasn't been a more than handy pickup.

Cerra, while no flop (especially if he gets over his injury concerns), was probably a mistake in hindsight. Few players would suit our list more than Wanganeen-Milera.

We could have been more aggressive trading for top end picks, but that's an entirely different discussion. The reality is, picks outside the top 20 have a very low strike rate, and 2-3 out of 7 would be inline with AFL averages, if not exceeding expectations.

I think the biggest issue is Austin's build of our list as a whole rather than his eye for talent. Acres, Hewett, Cerra, Hollands etc have been quality players for us but ultimately have led to an imbalanced list. I think he's began correcting that the last couple of off seasons but he hasn't been aggressive enough to properly rebalance the list.

If the Academy boys come on this year he'll be very lucky in that he's given 4 players who fit the bill perfectly for our list gaps, but thats a wait and see.

How he navigates the bids around these players as well as Cody next year while also finding a way to balance out the list for the present is going to be the real test of his ability. I love hypothesising trades and all that and without trading Harry or Walsh I simply can't come up with a solution I think will work. Guess thats why I'm not being paid big bucks to do so.

 

[Red_man2008]

If you look at the list 2 years ago and the change in personnel, I think we’ve gone backwards particularly in the short term.

We have some great kids in Jagga, Campo bros and Lord which is great for the future. But we’ve lost Kennedy, Owies, and are missing Nic Newman (LTI), Elijah (unavailable), Fantasia (injured), Doch, Haynes, Curnow and Harry out of form.

With our depth being tested we can’t afford to have so many players out of form.

You can add McGovern acres and Fogarty who are also playing below their best.

 

[Bluebag13]

Not doubting he's a bit of a head case and acts like a fool at times, but you get a kid like this right it's a decade of prime Dustin Martin type carnage.



Building a midfield around Cody, Jagga and Reid would be the envy of the league through the late 2020s/early 2030s.

Still hoping we just sign TDK and our form gets back to our 2024 best for now though.

Stuff it!!!
Trade Curnow, bring in Reid, lets do this!!!!!!

....... I'm at that point now, hopefully by Friday morning I'm back in my optimistic mood again

 

[DangerousD]

Still a moments player right now and looks completely disinterested this year but he is capable of the extraordinary. Had a few games last year where he was making senior AFL players look like school kids against him.

Once he gets his focus and dedication right he's going to be a force in this league. One of the most talented juniors of all time.

The big problem with chasing Reid isn’t the picks required its the $$$$, if he leaves it has the potential to make or break the club he goes to, teams like Saints and North have the $$$$ and Essendon has the picks and the $$$$$.

I think it would be crazy to be critical of Austin for overpaying lots of our underperforming players and then go out and overpay with picks and $$$ for Reid based on his U/18 years and a few highlights.

He will get offers of $1M for 6 years or more.

 

[Blue Pulse]

People have short memories and unfortunately the club as a whole is to blame. Why have things turned to ?

Young, in his 1st season for us was very good, even his 2nd wasn't too bad, he has his deficiencies, but that's where the coaches step in. How many times does someone run past him for the hands? Now he is a break glass in case of emergency player.

Our backline: Saad, Boyd, McGovern and Weitering are all decent kicks and can hit 45-55m targets, go back and look. They now hit up 30m and side ways targets which don't allow us to break zones.

Our Mids may not be quick, but are quick by hand and can run and spread (2 inside 2 out). They aren't playing bad but aren't working well together. Cerra has been good with out being great, but needs to stay in the midfield, not go back. Hewitt does what Hewitt has to do and will give his all. Walsh, I hope we haven't ruined him. He shouldn't have been playing mid last year when he was banged up and it looks like he is playing injured again. Play him on a wing and let him run if they want to play him. Cripps and TDK are guns

Forwards: Too many negators and not enough goal scorers allowing the opposition to shut down our goal scorers and run off our non scorers. Fog, doesn't pass the pub test, Motlop, still developing but there is upside. Cottrell, just too inconsistent. Kemp- still yet to play as a 3rd tall, but even after training him as a forward, his leading patterns are very ordinary. Harry and Charlie are both injured, I don't care how they fairy floss it, they are injured, neither of them can run. If we are not going to kick to their advantage, they need to be playing a Jeremy Cameron style of game.

Gameplan, tactical and selection: Very average

Injured players are selected, players in form in the 2's not rewarded, this takes its toll.
In game tactical moves are reactive and slow or just plain mind boggling.
Gameplan is being played with no confidence, everyone too scared to make a mistake.
Too much hard work is done with little scoring pressure. We score like a soccer team, while the opposition plays football

Player development has gone backwards, with young players appearing to peak and then stagnate

Most teams run on confidence and ours is no different, we need something to click and quickly

Do we have holes in our list, yes, but we need to get the best out of what we have until we can change it

 

[Bluebag13]

It's a small sample size and a very simplistic argument that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

These are the players he's chosen (ignoring last season's draft as way too early to tell):

Corey Durdin (37)
Jack Carroll (41)
Jesse Motlop (27)
Ollie Hollands (11)
Lachie Cowan (30)
Jaxon Binns (32)
Harry Lemmey (47)
Ashton Moir (29)

Too early to judge Moir, he was always going to be a slow burn.

Looking at the players taken around or after all those picks, not many have come on.

Durdin has played more games than every non-academy draftee taken after him expect for Beau McCreery (who would have been a great get).

Too early to judge Motlop, but again pretty slim pickings after him. Curtis at 35 was a missed opportunity.

Cowan at 30 has played more games than every player taken after pick 19 in the draft, except Noah Long (who's just clinging to a spot at West Coast). Binns has struggled but who taken after him has established themselves in the side?

A fairer argument would be whether it was the right call to trade out of the first round. We traded pick 8 for Saad - Reid, Pedlar, Bruhn and Powell were the next 4 picks. Powell's developing into a good player but not what we need, dodged a bullet with Bruhn. Pedlar would be handy up forward, but hard to argue Saad hasn't been a more than handy pickup.

Cerra, while no flop (especially if he gets over his injury concerns), was probably a mistake in hindsight. Few players would suit our list more than Wanganeen-Milera.

We could have been more aggressive trading for top end picks, but that's an entirely different discussion. The reality is, picks outside the top 20 have a very low strike rate, and 2-3 out of 7 would be inline with AFL averages, if not exceeding expectations.

Thanks for this!

There is never a silver bullet or one person/department that you can point a figure at.
As you mentioned there's things he could potentially have done differently but that doesn't mean that it guarantees a success.

Who's to say McCreery becomes the player he is at Carlton in totally different environment (not saying positively or negatively just different).
There are so many variables and things at play that all have to align to make a success club and or period.

 

[Bletch]

It's a small sample size and a very simplistic argument that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

These are the players he's chosen (ignoring last season's draft as way too early to tell):

Corey Durdin (37)
Jack Carroll (41)
Jesse Motlop (27)
Ollie Hollands (11)
Lachie Cowan (30)
Jaxon Binns (32)
Harry Lemmey (47)
Ashton Moir (29)

Too early to judge Moir, he was always going to be a slow burn.

Looking at the players taken around or after all those picks, not many have come on.

Durdin has played more games than every non-academy draftee taken after him expect for Beau McCreery (who would have been a great get).

Too early to judge Motlop, but again pretty slim pickings after him. Curtis at 35 was a missed opportunity.

Cowan at 30 has played more games than every player taken after pick 19 in the draft, except Noah Long (who's just clinging to a spot at West Coast). Binns has struggled but who taken after him has established themselves in the side?

A fairer argument would be whether it was the right call to trade out of the first round. We traded pick 8 for Saad - Reid, Pedlar, Bruhn and Powell were the next 4 picks. Powell's developing into a good player but not what we need, dodged a bullet with Bruhn. Pedlar would be handy up forward, but hard to argue Saad hasn't been a more than handy pickup.

Cerra, while no flop (especially if he gets over his injury concerns), was probably a mistake in hindsight. Few players would suit our list more than Wanganeen-Milera.

We could have been more aggressive trading for top end picks, but that's an entirely different discussion. The reality is, picks outside the top 20 have a very low strike rate, and 2-3 out of 7 would be inline with AFL averages, if not exceeding expectations.

Great post.

And one that those advocating for a clean-out at the end of the year would do well to bear in mind. Given once more we have slim pickings at the draft table this year, if we do cut more than the average 6-8 players, we'll have to fill the spots with more draft picks in the low percentage strike rate range. We'll have 2-4 Father-sons/NGAs, maybe trade in one or two others - but unlikely to be in the star range, unless we're losing one or more of our own stars.

 

[Arr0w]

Its not about the draft picks Austin has had at his disposal come draft time, as he has also given up pointy end picks for trades

In each draft/trade he has ignored real speed and foot skills, many of which were still available at our picks and a number of DFA or cheap trades each year

List management has been average over his 5 year tenure

 

[Michael Jezz]

It's a small sample size and a very simplistic argument that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

These are the players he's chosen (ignoring last season's draft as way too early to tell):

Corey Durdin (37)
Jack Carroll (41)
Jesse Motlop (27)
Ollie Hollands (11)
Lachie Cowan (30)
Jaxon Binns (32)
Harry Lemmey (47)
Ashton Moir (29)

Too early to judge Moir, he was always going to be a slow burn.

Looking at the players taken around or after all those picks, not many have come on.

Durdin has played more games than every non-academy draftee taken after him expect for Beau McCreery (who would have been a great get).

Too early to judge Motlop, but again pretty slim pickings after him. Curtis at 35 was a missed opportunity.

Cowan at 30 has played more games than every player taken after pick 19 in the draft, except Noah Long (who's just clinging to a spot at West Coast). Binns has struggled but who taken after him has established themselves in the side?

A fairer argument would be whether it was the right call to trade out of the first round. We traded pick 8 for Saad - Reid, Pedlar, Bruhn and Powell were the next 4 picks. Powell's developing into a good player but not what we need, dodged a bullet with Bruhn. Pedlar would be handy up forward, but hard to argue Saad hasn't been a more than handy pickup.

Cerra, while no flop (especially if he gets over his injury concerns), was probably a mistake in hindsight. Few players would suit our list more than Wanganeen-Milera.

We could have been more aggressive trading for top end picks, but that's an entirely different discussion. The reality is, picks outside the top 20 have a very low strike rate, and 2-3 out of 7 would be inline with AFL averages, if not exceeding expectations.

Austin has barely landed 1 pick outside top 20. Some of those are in their 4th season and you are arguing, they require more time? A good recruiter would nail 3 of those picks.

 

[blues4flag]

Austin has barely landed 1 pick outside top 20. Some of those are in their 4th season and you are arguing, they require more time? A good recruiter would nail 3 of those picks.

Who are those players that he missed out on? How many players taken after are established players in their team's best 22?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Thanks for this!

There is never a silver bullet or one person/department that you can point a figure at.
As you mentioned there's things he could potentially have done differently but that doesn't mean that it guarantees a success.

Who's to say McCreery becomes the player he is at Carlton in totally different environment (not saying positively or negatively just different).
There are so many variables and things at play that all have to align to make a success club and or period.

McCreery is the perfect example of a role player coming on where Durdin is the opposite. Neither find the goals or the ball, both bust their guts defensively though McCreery with a bigger body and tank.
The difference between lists makeups coming together or not aren’t always big

 

[Michael Jezz]

Who are those players that he missed out on? How many players taken after are established players in their team's best 22?

2020 - after C Durdin
Beau Mcreery
Eddie Ford

2021- After Motlop
Paul Curtis
Jake Soligio
Sam Banks?

2022- after Binns
Toby Mcmullin
Harvey Gallagher
Corey Wagner

 

[Bletch]

2020 - after C Durdin (22 players)
Beau Mcreery
Eddie Ford

2021- After Motlop (38 players)
Paul Curtis
Jake Soligio
Sam Banks?

2022- after Binns (27 players)
Toby Mcmullin
Harvey Gallagher
Corey Wagner

Added total players selected after the Carlton choice for reference.

If anything, you're proving b4f's point - very few players of value available after those picks. Hard to say any of the picks we've made have been obvious errors.

Hindsight drafting is a trap.

 

[Arr0w]

Added total players selected after the Carlton choice for reference.

If anything, you're proving b4f's point - very few players of value available after those picks. Hard to say any of the picks we've made have been obvious errors.

Hindsight drafting is a trap.

I guess it's hindsight if people haven't shared their thoughts prior to a draft

Trades/acquiring FA/DFA is impossible to determine, we just don't know cap situations or player preferences

 

[Bletch]

2020 - after C Durdin
Beau Mcreery
Eddie Ford

2021- After Motlop
Paul Curtis
Jake Soligio
Sam Banks?

2022- after Binns
Toby Mcmullin
Harvey Gallagher
Corey Wagner

Another thing.

Let's take Collingwood and McCreery as an example. i.e. "Why did we draft Durdin, when we could have had McCreery. Pies are so much better at the draft than we are!" (Not your words, but the sort of comments from some that reflect the same sentiment)

Well, let's have a look. At that draft, they took:
17 - O Henry - now playing some decent footy, but not at Collingwood
19 - F Macrae - 21 games in 4 years. Meh.
21 - R McInnes - 23 games, also meh.
30 - Poulter - 28 games, mostly at the Dogs
31 - McMahon - now with our VFL team

All of these were selected before McCreery at 44, who was a fantastic get by them. But can you really say they've drafted well?

Every club has some good picks and some shockers. Very few could match our 2015 haul, but if you hold that up as an expectation, you're always going to be disappointed.

 

[Juddernaut08]

I think the 3 components of list acquisitions have contributed to where we are at:
1) Drafting
2) Trades
3) Free Agency

I'd say 2) and 3) have probably hurt us more because of the types of players we've gone after and the opportunity cost. Let's have a look.

Jack Martin - Brought in on big coin, but 0 draft cost - I think this was a worthy gamble that didn't pay off. Played in an area of need. In the few games he was fit and in form, he transformed our forwardline. A very talented player at ground level and in the air - something no other forward on our list has.

Zac Williams - Brought in on big coin, but 0 draft cost - I think this was a big error. Injury prone, couldn't play midfield like we wanted him to, and because he's hit and miss - was not an elite back pocket. Has now found new life as a small forward (which I think he's doing well at), but the big hit to our salary cap has costed us the opportunity to go after areas of need like Ben McKay 2 years ago, and Barrass last year.

George Hewett - Brought in on a good value contract, and low draft cost - I think again, this was not a good move for our list balance. Hewett is a very good player, and certainly a key cog of our midfield. But did we really need another slowish, inside mid? Bringing him in when we already had Kennedy on the list just meant we had a list imbalance.

Adam Cerra - Brought in on a fair contract, high draft cost - Just an ok move. Cerra has played some incredible games for us, and is a fantastic player. But in the end he is another on-baller who is not fast, and cost us a lot in draft capital. At the end of the day, his kicking skills are super valuable for us, but perhaps the draftees we gave up would be doing well too.

Orazio - what are we doing here. What a waste of a list spot.

 

[Red_man2008]

The sky is definitely falling at Carlton. Walsh is never gonna be the same and will have offers from everyone as a pre agent. TDK is happy to go to st kilda for life changing money. Curnows knee is still ****ed. Harry has the plague. Many players are questioning the clubs direction. The board members don’t care about Carlton but just wheeling and dealing for their big companies’ pockets. Cripps Harry and Walsh are regurgitating the internal message that finals and premierships aren’t important in the long run.

Have we got a team of players that don’t care as much as us?? Is it all too hard for everyone at Carlton???

 

[Blue Reaper]

The sky is definitely falling at Carlton. Walsh is never gonna be the same and will have offers from everyone as a pre agent. TDK is happy to go to st kilda for life changing money. Curnows knee is still ****ed. Harry has the plague. Many players are questioning the clubs direction. The board members don’t care about Carlton but just wheeling and dealing for their big companies’ pockets. Cripps Harry and Walsh are regurgitating the internal message that finals and premierships aren’t important in the long run.

Have we got a team of players that don’t care as much as us?? Is it all too hard for everyone at Carlton???

I genuinely chuckled.

 

[Arr0w]

IMHO, there has been a sameness with our drafting and recruitment, whether it was the high ceilings types of SOS, or the conservative Austin

Yes, there will be plenty of busts (nail 2 of 3 picks and you wite your own ticket), but the fundamentals of drafting/acquiring have been evident for well over a decade

Speed/agility (best defined as aggressive runners), footskills, mongrel

 

[JJBagger]

Another thing.

Let's take Collingwood and McCreery as an example. i.e. "Why did we draft Durdin, when we could have had McCreery. Pies are so much better at the draft than we are!" (Not your words, but the sort of comments from some that reflect the same sentiment)

Well, let's have a look. At that draft, they took:
17 - O Henry - now playing some decent footy, but not at Collingwood
19 - F Macrae - 21 games in 4 years. Meh.
21 - R McInnes - 23 games, also meh.
30 - Poulter - 28 games, mostly at the Dogs
31 - McMahon - now with our VFL team

All of these were selected before McCreery at 44, who was a fantastic get by them. But can you really say they've drafted well?

Every club has some good picks and some shockers. Very few could match our 2015 haul, but if you hold that up as an expectation, you're always going to be disappointed.

It’s the same with Chad Warner. The swans picked 3 players before him, so even they passed on him. But none of that matters in the court of public opinion

 

[Michael Jezz]

Another thing.

Let's take Collingwood and McCreery as an example. i.e. "Why did we draft Durdin, when we could have had McCreery. Pies are so much better at the draft than we are!" (Not your words, but the sort of comments from some that reflect the same sentiment)

Well, let's have a look. At that draft, they took:
17 - O Henry - now playing some decent footy, but not at Collingwood
19 - F Macrae - 21 games in 4 years. Meh.
21 - R McInnes - 23 games, also meh.
30 - Poulter - 28 games, mostly at the Dogs
31 - McMahon - now with our VFL team

All of these were selected before McCreery at 44, who was a fantastic get by them. But can you really say they've drafted well?

Every club has some good picks and some shockers. Very few could match our 2015 haul, but if you hold that up as an expectation, you're always going to be disappointed.

Austin has landed virtually nothing in 4 full drafts. Successful clubs land some late picks. Austin landed a couple of 50/50 players motlop and cowan and then nothing. This year is draft number 6 for Austin

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

This is the problem with assessing drafting is you probably need a 5 year period to determine if they are any good or not. The issue is even after five years you can usually only get a half decent read off their first two or three drafts.

You would hope the recruiters create a top 100 list or something of each draft for the club so they can actually determine if their ratings have been accurate or not.
One recruiter might nail their pick but their next 10 options would’ve been busts where another recruiter may pick a bust but their next 10 options go onto and become good players. You need to take luck out of judging these guys somehow

 

[Accidental genius]

list management will always struggle if there is no clear path/understanding of how we want to play.

We’re onto our 3rd coach (all low quality coaches) since rebuild started and as a result our list has turned into a vegetable soup.

A good coach and development team might extract more out of this list but as it stands tge list isn’t gelling and it’s on full display over the first 2 weeks.

Imagine losing to tiggies team of draftees