List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

[Y Goat]

To me, these 2 positional changes look good (took a while to bl@@dy try it!)

• Kemp is a keeper as 3rdTallFwd who brings pressure and speed/urgency
• Silvagni as KP Def - torched Naughton for much of the game and knew what to do (and got it done) at virtually all contests

 

[Stamos]

I agree that it was poor list management, but when we got to the end of the year and had Durdin signed up, no interested buyers in Young and a bulging salary cap we had to move him on because we had no other options. It should never have come to that but the list team got us in a bad situation handing out contracts to duds.

Clubs knew we had no way of getting out of that so they could effectively hold that over us and do what they liked which is why we got unders for Kennedy and Owies imo.

I don't think we got unders for Kennedy.
Owies was slightly different, but I also don't think that Durdin and Young's contracts were the reason for that.
On Owies we might have gotten a 3rd if we weren't so tight for list spots? Which ultimately wouldn't have made a difference, given we were matching bids for the Camporeales.

On Durdin, we're just unlucky with the injuries he's suffered. He's more talented, and faster, than Owies. We signed him up and left Owies unsigned, for a reason.
If Young was uncontracted, and we cut him, we'd still have to replace him with a key position player (easier said than done). I don't see that changing anything in regards to Owies or Kennedy.

 

[RPCB]

After thinking about it, we can’t use McKay as trade bait because we’re a cursed club.

Curnow would do his knee in the pre season as soon as we traded McKay.

Most fascinating part about Charlie Curnow missing 2 years through injury is that he’s played more career games than Harry McKay.

 

[Stiffler's Dad]

If things don't turn around would you not think we'd just move on some of our senior players who aren't showing enough and use that money to keep him? McGovern, Docherty, Saad, Haynes, Orazio, Newman (Gun but likely retires in a year or two), Williams next year.

There'd be plenty enough money from that group to make up the difference with TDK vs the Saints.

Just a question regarding TDK compensation.
Scenario: TDK goes to St Kilda for the coin and who could blame him right now?
Isn't it the case that if we take a free agent ourselves, we then receive zero compensation for TDK. I hope this isn't the case but.......

 

[Michael Jezz]

Had to be done unfortunately. Had no list spots spare and Lord showed the same potential but 8 years younger.

The re signing of Durdin and long term contract of Young were baffling list decisions and ultimately came back to bite us last year in terms of needing to push others out to make space on the list and in the salary cap.

Young as a back up tall on 250-300k a year is good list management, except if we were any good he plays 6 games a year

 

[Coops93]

If things don't turn around would you not think we'd just move on some of our senior players who aren't showing enough and use that money to keep him? McGovern, Docherty, Saad, Haynes, Orazio, Newman (Gun but likely retires in a year or two), Williams next year.

There'd be plenty enough money from that group to make up the difference with TDK vs the Saints.

It's not as easy to just move guys on if they're contracted. The other thing is getting value for the players you're trading out should they be ok with that. Then the issue is, who would actually pay anything of note for any of those names listed? Saad & Newman are the only players of value potentially, but both over 30 and Newman especially coming off a serious knee injury at his age wouldn't get us much on the trade market at all.

So, what would getting rid of them actually help with? We'd have to fill those list spots somehow and we have no draft picks. Part of the reason for TDK is the value he would bring in in terms of trade or draft capital, and at a time where we have none.

If there's another way for us to rejuvenate our off-season capital then great - I'd like to know what it is. I don't exactly want to lose TDK, I just see it as the most straightforward and easy way to get a valuable draft pick and cap space. We also have Pitto under contract and a young developing Ruckman on the list, it's not as though without him we have no ruck.

 

[JustaBattler]

If a player is going to walk out on a contract because they got subbed out of one game...
The TDK/Kennedy subbing, and overall selection in the game was a debacle, but still.

I also doubt he was on 'peanuts'. He signed a 3 year deal in May 22 when he was having a career best season.

However, trading him was not 'stoopid'.
They're the kind of calls that list management should be making.
Trading out your 5th best mid, who has been pushed out of an unbalanced midfield, to save salary space and get in a 2nd round pick to target a KPD.

Of all the things that have gone wrong/are going wrong at Carlton, that trade is so far down the list as to be irrelevant.

I dont think so Kennedy is a better forward/mid option than Cottrell ( I think Kennedy was handy depth and by depth I mean a player good enough to play every game lets not forget that )- and that is just for starters- but lets agree to disagree - because yes the CLub has far far more issues to fix than that.

 

[LFTWNG11]

I dont think so Kennedy is a better forward/mid option than Cottrell ( I think Kennedy was handy depth and by depth I mean a player good enough to play every game lets not forget that )- and that is just for starters- but lets agree to disagree - because yes the CLub has far far more issues to fix than that.

Completely different players. Kennedy had to go, people are just upset because he played a blinder against us. I thought Hewett was better on Friday night, who we effectively kept over Kennedy.

McG, Docherty, Orazio, Evans and Ollie are all lost cloggers for various reasons. Moving those 5 on should be priority, even if we get nothing for them.

 

[Stamos]

McG, Docherty, Orazio, Evans and Ollie are all lost cloggers for various reasons. Moving those 5 on should be priority, even if we get nothing for them.

Ollie is not on that list

 

[Faz 2000]

One of Cripps, Hewett, Cerra and Kennedy had to go, and it was Kennedy.

The poor list management of it wasn't the second bit, it was the first bit. I think we added both Hewett and Cerra in the 2021-22 off season, which was bad list management.

Shouldn't have kept adding slow inside midfield types with average-at-best footskills to our list when we're utterly devoid of speed and skills.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

It's not as easy to just move guys on if they're contracted. The other thing is getting value for the players you're trading out should they be ok with that. Then the issue is, who would actually pay anything of note for any of those names listed? Saad & Newman are the only players of value potentially, but both over 30 and Newman especially coming off a serious knee injury at his age wouldn't get us much on the trade market at all.

So, what would getting rid of them actually help with? We'd have to fill those list spots somehow and we have no draft picks. Part of the reason for TDK is the value he would bring in in terms of trade or draft capital, and at a time where we have none.

If there's another way for us to rejuvenate our off-season capital then great - I'd like to know what it is. I don't exactly want to lose TDK, I just see it as the most straightforward and easy way to get a valuable draft pick and cap space. We also have Pitto under contract and a young developing Ruckman on the list, it's not as though without him we have no ruck.

Pretty much all of those names bar Saad and Williams are OOC so it would be as simple as not offering them a contract for next year. Personally I wouldn't expect any great return for any of them in a trade, maybe a 2nd rounder at best for 1-2 of them, but as I said, I'd gladly move any number of them to keep TDK long term.

Most of those players won't be with us in 1-2 years time. TDK is catapulting himself into our best player category next to Cripps and will play for the next 6-8 years.

As for regenerating our list? There are plenty of cheap players around the league not getting regular games for their clubs who would be in our best 22 almost guaranteed. Players like Butts and Aleer are miles better than Young down back. Joe Fonti, Dylan Williams, Josh Sinn, Chayce Jones, Shaun Mannagh etc. None of them would require any great trade capital to get across, they'd just require a good opportunity to play consistent games for a team.

Unfortunately with players like Docherty, McGovern, Williams etc running around the opportunity for bringing in underutilized players has been limited. Acres and Hewett were two cheap additions that fit in perfectly as we had gaping holes in those areas of the field. Same with Elijah. The rest of our team has been fairly set when everyone's healthy though over the last 2-3 years.

Regenerating the list will require space to be made in the cap and in terms of playing opportunities. Holding onto names like Doch, Gov, Newman etc will just delay that process and provide us no scope for improvement other than who we bring in at the draft.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Just a question regarding TDK compensation.
Scenario: TDK goes to St Kilda for the coin and who could blame him right now?
Isn't it the case that if we take a free agent ourselves, we then receive zero compensation for TDK. I hope this isn't the case but.......

I believe thats correct. All the more reason we have to be prepared to match an offer to force a trade if it comes to that. Losing TDK for anything less than a kings ransom would be disastrous for our list going forward.

 

[Coops93]

If they're OOC then that's fair to not offer them a new deal, but we still have to replace them and with no draft capacity it's not going to be very good replacements. I don't see anyone there that would get a 2nd round pick. The best of them is Newman - who will be 33 and coming off a serious knee injury by the time he plays again, and Saad who will be 32 during next season - and lately has started to get the odd soft tissue injury. There's very, very little trade value in that group.

As for regenerating our list? There are plenty of cheap players around the league not getting regular games for their clubs who would be in our best 22 almost guaranteed. Players like Butts and Aleer are miles better than Young down back. Joe Fonti, Dylan Williams, Josh Sinn, Chayce Jones, Shaun Mannagh etc. None of them would require any great trade capital to get acros, they'd just require a good opportunity to play consistent games for a team.

Even if we pursued them and they wouldn't cost a lot, we have next to 0 capital. No first or 2nd round pick this yr, with a F/S and a couple of academy kids in the fold as well potentially. Giving up picks is something we cannot do. Or if we do, we accept we're drafting no one and hope clubs will accept 3rd and 4th round picks for these guys - which if they are, the guys we're getting certainly aren't going to be taking us anywhere.

Trading future picks is also fraught with danger, given we potentially have a no.1 pick to match a bid for next year. We can't be throwing those around for C+ graders not currently getting a game. If anything we want to somehow stock up on even more picks next yr.

We just have no flexibility and the only asset we have of value is players - with TDK (and Walsh fwiw) OOC this yr, that's just about the only way for us to get anything as far as I can see. Moving on or trying to trade a group of 32+yr olds isn't going to get the job done.

 

[Bluechip66]

I believe thats correct. All the more reason we have to be prepared to match an offer to force a trade if it comes to that. Losing TDK for anything less than a kings ransom would be disastrous for our list going forward.

If we match tdk not going anywhere., he is still weighing up to stay for less, so he def staying if we offer more

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

If they're OOC then that's fair to not offer them a new deal, but we still have to replace them and with no draft capacity it's not going to be very good replacements. I don't see anyone there that would get a 2nd round pick. The best of them is Newman - who will be 33 and coming off a serious knee injury by the time he plays again, and Saad who will be 32 during next season - and lately has started to get the odd soft tissue injury. There's very, very little trade value in that group.


Even if we pursued them and they wouldn't cost a lot, we have next to 0 capital. No first or 2nd round pick this yr, with a F/S and a couple of academy kids in the fold as well potentially. Giving up picks is something we cannot do. Or if we do, we accept we're drafting no one and hope clubs will accept 3rd and 4th round picks for these guys - which if they are, the guys we're getting certainly aren't going to be taking us anywhere.

Trading future picks is also fraught with danger, given we potentially have a no.1 pick to match a bid for next year. We can't be throwing those around for C+ graders not currently getting a game. If anything we want to somehow stock up on even more picks next yr.

We just have no flexibility and the only asset we have of value is players - with TDK (and Walsh fwiw) OOC this yr, that's just about the only way for us to get anything as far as I can see. Moving on or trying to trade a group of 32+yr olds isn't going to get the job done.

We have 2 years worth of picks we can trade and underperforming star players that would be on the chopping block depending if the season continues to be a train wreck or not. If some of them were keen on coming across I highly doubt we'd have too many issues finding a way to get a few in. Some of them would be worth 2nd or 3rd rounders at best.

The list is in need of considerable change going forward and I'd like to think everyone at the club would know that at this point. It's been obvious for multiple years now, the powers at be were just far too slow to adjust strategy. We'll get lucky with Cody and potentially Dean + Ison this year but they won't fix all our issues immediately. They'll certainly help though.

I don't agree with Arr0w on everything but he and others have been making a point of this for years now in the list and draft threads.

 

[The Bighouse]

Other players to be ditched before Kennedy

Not with all the points aligning. Same with Owies.

We can’t keep everyone and there’s likely more to come if we want to draft players in.
That’s what happens with a maturing list, out with the old and in with the new.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Just a question regarding TDK compensation.
Scenario: TDK goes to St Kilda for the coin and who could blame him right now?
Isn't it the case that if we take a free agent ourselves, we then receive zero compensation for TDK. I hope this isn't the case but.......

Not quite - they compare the outgoing vs the incoming, and adjust compensation accordingly.

If we signed a comparable free agent, the compensation would likely be forfeited entirely.
If we signed a mid-tier free agent, we'd likely get a reduced pick - maybe second or even third round.
If we signed a low value free agent (ie. short contract, not much money), there's a chance the TDK compo would be unaffected.

 

[The Bighouse]

Not a buyer of this mate - getting rid of Kennedy and keeping spuds on the list because list management has made poor decisions previously - just tells me that the Club has serious management issues.

I think list management is not aligned with a serious view that the team is ready to contend - I've come to peace with this and my peace of mind doesn't require me to buy the BS that the Club is selling.

MK was looking and would have been back if no suitor was found.
MK becomes HOF from the draft pick gained = KPP as needed

We also had Lord enter from the MSD who is part of the midfielders (MK to be ousted to forward role, as he mostly was in ‘24) with a similar midfield makeup as MK.
Ben Camporeale an inside midfielder being drafted under F/S

There’s 2 players that LM is banking on the future vs MK. Again, MK has draft capital attached to him, nothing personal.

Salary Cap benefits here, along the lines of 3 players for the 1 x MK list spot. Balancing act for our accounting s and opening up an offer for TDK &/or others coming in.

 

[Blue Reaper]

I’m a fan of Kennedy but my understanding was that his preference was to play mostly midfield which we couldn’t guarantee given players ahead of him, so we encouraged him to explore his options. He found his niche, and we got a decent pick & a little salary cap relief.

Not keeping Kennedy isn’t anywhere near the reason we’re 0-3.

 

[bradfisher14]

Farrell signed an extension at Port

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Farrell signed an extension at Port

Sinn and Williams come on down!

 

[JustaBattler]

MK was looking and would have been back if no suitor was found.
MK becomes HOF from the draft pick gained = KPP as needed

We also had Lord enter from the MSD who is part of the midfielders (MK to be ousted to forward role, as he mostly was in ‘24) with a similar midfield makeup as MK.
Ben Camporeale an inside midfielder being drafted under F/S

There’s 2 players that LM is banking on the future vs MK. Again, MK has draft capital attached to him, nothing personal.

Salary Cap benefits here, along the lines of 3 players for the 1 x MK list spot. Balancing act for our accounting s and opening up an offer for TDK &/or others coming in.

No doubt about that arithmetic investing in the future - whilst a bunch of list clogging spuds pizz the now down the drain week in week out....

that is my point re Kennedy -list management FAIL as far as NOW goes ....when I look at portfolios- which I do every second of every day - I analyse both current performance and duration in deciding how much VAR is being utilissed efficiently.

I will njto suffer any commentary re Kennedy 'looking' - if he was looking he was looking because he ws told to look- so Carlton si alsking layers whop play every gamr to look whilst holding on to players who cant even get pon teh park...

list management FAIL

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Farrell signed an extension at Port

Disappointing............who's Farrell?

 

[ESKIE]

Not with all the points aligning. Same with Owies.

We can’t keep everyone and there’s likely more to come if we want to draft players in.
That’s what happens with a maturing list, out with the old and in with the new.

Then bring in some list cloggers

I'm not saying we lost on the weekend because of Kennedy btw
There's a lot of commentary about our bottom eight players being sub par so why not keep him ask someone else to explore their options it's just dumb

 

[gbatman]

Harry McKay is the only genuine forward/Ruck we have and he is a very good one. He won't be traded. He won't be played elsewhere.

This is a side desperate for forwards and the forward/ruck position is important. Good ones are hard to find. When he is out or if we traded him, it would leave a very big hole.

Get our three forwards going. McKay, Curnow and Kemp and it gives our forward line something to build around.

Our issue is not them. It's the others.