List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[gringo2011]

I hope this galvanises the coach and players to do everything they can to prove the rest of the AFL and particularly those slimy shitey agents and media loudmouths wrong.

Battle is gone now. Regardless of who is wrong or right, he's just another face of the enemy, and I honestly couldn't give a tinkers toss what his reasons were. Hawthorn are like that cousin or neighbour that succeeded where we failed and their continued one upping us just boils our bones. They need to be taken into the weeds and I hope we come out breathing fire against them and see how they stand up to being the Hunted rather than the Hunter. I can't wait until we play them.

If potential trades are too scared to join our club or be The Man, we don't want them. We want players with sack like Mattaes and Alixzander, like Darcy and Tobie, like Hugo and Hugh, like Chito and Windy, like Liam Henry and Messiah Wangering Miller and yes, even like Stocker, Byrnes and Jones. Players that will put the club on their backs and scrap for their reputation.

No one likes us, we don't care.


Edit: and I wouldn't be surprised if those gibbering turkeys McFarlane and Ralph, who have both always looked down on St Kilda, added the "they've only won one flag" chestnut themselves, rather than got that from any of the players or agents they spoke to. Tell me how relevant that history is to today's St Kilda? If any player includes that as part of their decision making process they're not for us.

Flipping babies

Ross Lyon used to use the disdain from the rest of the footy world as a motivator last time. I wouldn't be surprised if he has them riled about the disrespect.

 

[True Believer]

What he did do was make everything he did look exciting. After the beige Richo era a bit of disco glitter is exactly the medicine we need.

That's awesome, because I hear Bevo can hook us up with some disco biccies, add the disco glitter, and it's starting to sound like a wild weekend......

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Don't even need the weekend, just a 3 hour bender...

 

[stavro#4]

It’s funny because for a side to have good disposal efficiency you don’t need 23 elite kicks in the side every week, you just need the guys that aren’t elite kicks to know this and just take easy outlet options.

But who’s to say he isn’t under instruction to take those risks?

It’s not just about capability or ability to understand one’s limitations. Port might think that for every kick they ask him to pull off - that he probably shouldn’t after an intercept. That it is worth a goal for them when he does manage it and therefor worth it.

 

[saintbill]

Have come around to TDK even at the price being floated around. Marshall 65% ruck, TDK 35%.

All the other blokes we have been linked to don't move the needle IMO.

Let's back Hammer, Tauru, Barrett in. There is enough on the list to not clog up the backline with other players unless they are a gun key position player.

If we keep NAS and snag TDK it is an elite off season.

 

[akaifu]

Christian moraes really stood out to me last night for port. Was touted as an early draft pick to start last year but for some reason slipped in the draft. Covers the ground beautifully and skills by foot and descion making looked very good. 27 disposals in his second game just quietly

Slipped because of his ball use and inability to defend 1v1. And doubts over his long-term position whether he can develop into an inside mid

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

Which premiership side in the last 10-20 years didn’t have a dickhead?

saints 2018

 

[stavro#4]

saints 2018

Yeah I must have missed that one

 

[Sully111]

Last week we used the ball like an elite side for 3/4. I've always been a bit non plussed about disposal in the past but I'm reformed. Football is so much easier if you don't turn the ball over every third time you get the ball. Especially reloading off HB. I'd rather feed Ari to be honest. If Berg turns over half his kicks his 25 possessions are only 12 effective.

Yep.

If he's not a decent kick, I don't want him.

Had an absolute gut full of watching us chasing our tail because we keep giving the ball back to the opposition.

The last time we were contenders we had the likes of BJ, Dal and Joey in our side.

 

[Joffaboy]

100% although he looks more of a defender than bonner

I'd rather just get games into trav

There is a footballer in there. With coaches like Lyon, Enright, etc he could really improve and play within his limitations, a Jimmy Webster upgrade.

Sent from my SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Ducky Tie]

Bergman is nothing like Bonner. He's tough, has accountability, has an intercept game. The kicking talk is getting carried away. He's not a bad kick generally. He's not a game winner, but he'd slot in and be a top ten player for us.

 

[bird_man]

Bergman is nothing like Bonner. He's tough, has accountability, has an intercept game. The kicking talk is getting carried away. He's not a bad kick generally. He's not a game winner, but he'd slot in and be a top ten player for us.

He has averaged a turnover every 5 possessions since the start of last year. One of the worst ratios in the comp so I’m not sure how you could suggest it’s getting carried away.

 

[HeavenlySources]

bit early for draft speculation but this Fred Rodriguez kid looks like he's fit into the Saints mould very well

 

[akaifu]

bit early for draft speculation but this Fred Rodriguez kid looks like he's fit into the Saints mould very well

Yep Rodriguez is the one mid at the top end who I think suits us the best. There are better mids like Sharp and maybe Duursma but he's the one with speed and elite ball use that they dont have

 

[gringo2011]

He has averaged a turnover every 5 possessions since the start of last year. One of the worst ratios in the comp so I’m not sure how you could suggest it’s getting carried away.

3rd in the AFL for total turnovers
16th for turnovers per game
17th in total clangers

His disposal has always been his main issue.

He is 1st in marks across the comp but a game ahead of most and also very high in bounces.

 

[stavro#4]

He has averaged a turnover every 5 possessions since the start of last year. One of the worst ratios in the comp so I’m not sure how you could suggest it’s getting carried away.

After last nights game.

Last seasons stats - there are significantly more players

AFL Player Statistics

AFL player statistics.

www.wheeloratings.com

Stats suggest he isn’t anywhere near as bad as made out. Not suggesting he is a great kick to be clear.

 

[bird_man]

3rd in the AFL for total turnovers
16th for turnovers per game
17th in total clangers

His disposal has always been his main issue.

He is 1st in marks across the comp but a game ahead of most and also very high in bounces.

And he isn't a high accumulator.

Last year he sat down around 40th for overall turnovers but when you factor in most ahead of him were mids and high accumulators it's not a good stat for him.

Lachie Neale was number one for turnovers but when you look at his stats it was only one in every 10 touches as opposed to one in 5 from Bergman.

As I've said many times, I do rate him but his kicking can't be ignored

 

[gringo2011]

View attachment 2263848
After last nights game.

Last seasons stats - there are significantly more players

AFL Player Statistics

AFL player statistics.

www.wheeloratings.com

Stats suggest he isn’t anywhere near as bad as made out. Not suggesting he is a great kick to be clear.

I was always a fan of chasing him when he looked like he might leave last time but he's quite noticeably a poor kick. Amon, Kelly and a few others are a bit of a early season anomaly. They are all neat kicks of the footy. Bergman has been ordinary for a long time. Most years he'd be in that list of clanger kings. He has a lot of other good qualities but kicking is an obvious flaw in his game.

 

[bird_man]

View attachment 2263848
After last nights game.

Last seasons stats - there are significantly more players

AFL Player Statistics

AFL player statistics.

www.wheeloratings.com

Stats suggest he isn’t anywhere near as bad as made out. Not suggesting he is a great kick to be clear.

What stat are you looking at here?

Total turnovers or turnovers per possession?

Remembering he only avered 15 touches a game last year

 

[phantom13]

But who’s to say he isn’t under instruction to take those risks?

It’s not just about capability or ability to understand one’s limitations. Port might think that for every kick they ask him to pull off - that he probably shouldn’t after an intercept. That it is worth a goal for them when he does manage it and therefor worth it.

My post wasn’t specifically about Bergman though.

 

[ScrappyDo]

It's fair enough to discuss players but list management is about growing the pie. We have a bucket loat of cash and 2x FRDP's that can be spent and we already have heaps of kids. Get a Bergman, trade a Byrnes/Clark out to dampen the cost and away we go.

 

[gringo2011]

And he isn't a high accumulator.

Last year he sat down around 40th for overall turnovers but when you factor in most ahead of him were mids and high accumulators it's not a good stat for him.

Lachie Neale was number one for turnovers but when you look at his stats it was only one in every 10 touches as opposed to one in 5 from Bergman.

As I've said many times, I do rate him but his kicking can't be ignored

Actually surprised he was only 40. When I think of him it's as a shit kick. Yeah for sure, loading up off HB is a lot easier that bustling through centre square traffic with someone hanging off you.

 

[akaifu]

And he isn't a high accumulator.

Last year he sat down around 40th for overall turnovers but when you factor in most ahead of him were mids and high accumulators it's not a good stat for him.

Lachie Neale was number one for turnovers but when you look at his stats it was only one in every 10 touches as opposed to one in 5 from Bergman.

As I've said many times, I do rate him but his kicking can't be ignored

He has turnovers because Hinkley doesn't know how to coach. Lets him bomb the ball down the line every time from D50 even tho he isn't the best kick

In a defence like ours where we have Sinc and hopefully still have Nas, I'm sure Bergman will be instructed to kick short to the better users. It's just like when we have Stocker in the side - he is never too elaborate with his kicking

Bergman's main job would be to shut out opposition's best small while also supporting our KPDs in intercepting and also running off his man offensively

If Bergman was a good kick, every club in the land would be interested and offering $1mil/year+

 

[gringo2011]

It's fair enough to discuss players but list management is about growing the pie. We have a bucket loat of cash and 2x FRDP's that can be spent and we already have heaps of kids. Get a Bergman, trade a Byrnes/Clark out to dampen the cost and away we go.

He's not coming for less than $900k x 5 years and probably costs us a later first round pick. He also then holds a spot for at least his contract keeping a developing player out. To me the time pumped into Ari, O'Connell, Hastie, Travaglia, Tauru etc will pay a lot more dividends. He might not have peaked but he's probably going to get more consistent rather than surge to elite.

It's the one position we probably don't need. We don't need to get trades done for the sake of it. Some of the kids are going to want big pay days if we start offering millions for GOPs.

 

[Speck]

Need to be careful with trading first rounders. Look at Port who traded 2 firsts for Ratugolea, Soldo and Lukosious.

Love the idea of TDK as a FA. Marshall will turn 30 this year and is completely over worked. We know TDK can play forward and have a big impact in the ruck. They could absolutely play together for a while before TDK takes over ruck duties.

TDK also gives us some insurance with Kings injury issues. Without him we're light on for tall forwards.