List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[Mowman]

I was always a fan of chasing him when he looked like he might leave last time but he's quite noticeably a poor kick. Amon, Kelly and a few others are a bit of an early season anomaly. They are all neat kicks of the footy. Bergman has been ordinary for a long time. Most years he'd be in that list of clanger kings. He has a lot of other good qualities but kicking is an obvious flaw in his game.

Really don’t see him as an urgent need, he is an ok player would rather put games into Hastie Arie and Toby

Bergman doesn’t get it that often and turns it over a lot
I think we have much bigger needs than Miles, everyone has got the hots for him because he could be available and a hack like John Ralph said we are chasing him

 

[stavro#4]

What stat are you looking at here?

Total turnovers or turnovers per possession?

Remembering he only avered 15 touches a game last year

Either or mate.

As I said. His kicking is his weakness. But it does look overblown. If you take the article for face value. Then we want him to play some midfield minutes.

If he improves to find the pill 21 times on average then he is having very similar numbers to:

Tom Stewart: 21 disposals and turnover p/disposal of 5.9
James Sicily: 21 disposals and turnover p/Disposal of 5.8

All of a sudden it doesn’t look as bad as the point being made.

 

[stavro#4]

He's not coming for less than $900k x 5 years and probably costs us a later first round pick. He also then holds a spot for at least his contract keeping a developing player out. To me the time pumped into Ari, O'Connell, Hastie, Travaglia, Tauru etc will pay a lot more dividends. He might not have peaked but he's probably going to get more consistent rather than surge to elite.

It's the one position we probably don't need. We don't need to get trades done for the sake of it. Some of the kids are going to want big pay days if we start offering millions for GOPs.

The fact is though that if Ari becomes any good. Tasmania will come hard.

Also not all of O’Connell Hastie Arie McLennan will make it.

Secondly Travaglia becomes a mid. Tauru becomes a forward (all possibilities) and you start looking at half back and thinking, yeah we might need one.

 

[bird_man]

He has turnovers because Hinkley doesn't know how to coach. Lets him bomb the ball down the line every time from D50 even tho he isn't the best kick

In a defence like ours where we have Sinc and hopefully still have Nas, I'm sure Bergman will be instructed to kick short to the better users. It's just like when we have Stocker in the side - he is never too elaborate with his kicking

Bergman's main job would be to shut out opposition's best small while also supporting our KPDs in intercepting and also running off his man offensively

If Bergman was a good kick, every club in the land would be interested and offering $1mil/year+

Yet you have Burgoune off the other back flank with 96% disposal efficiency and half the turnovers. I think that's a cop out. I don't think Shane Savage was told to bomb it long his whole career either

 

[Speck]

Not sure what to make of Bergman if NWM stays. Bergman is clearly in our target demographic of Bayside boys, and is good but hasn't completely set the world alight yet. I think the trade would have to be pretty fair - by the looks of it they'd want a mid to late 1st which feels like slightly too much for us to give away.

 

[Mowman]

He's not coming for less than $900k x 5 years and probably costs us a later first round pick. He also then holds a spot for at least his contract keeping a developing player out. To me the time pumped into Ari, O'Connell, Hastie, Travaglia, Tauru etc will pay a lot more dividends. He might not have peaked but he's probably going to get more consistent rather than surge to elite.

It's the one position we probably don't need. We don't need to get trades done for the sake of it. Some of the kids are going to want big pay days if we start offering millions for GOPs.

Imagine spending 5 x 900 on him and Port will want a 1st round pick. Crazy stuff

Bergman is a dime a dozen HBF

 

[akaifu]

Yet you have Burgoune off the other back flank with 96% disposal efficiency and half the turnovers. I think that's a cop out. I don't think Shane Savage was told to bomb it long his whole career either

Ok well you can argue Burgoyne is a good kick but a terrible defender 1v1. Each player has their own strengths and weaknesses. Berg and Burg pretty much opposites of each other as defenders

And why are we suddenly comparing him to Shane Savage? Completely different players

 

[Mowman]

Ok well you can argue Burgoyne is a good kick but a terrible defender 1v1. Each player has their own strengths and weaknesses. Berg and Burg pretty much opposites of each other as defenders

And why are we suddenly comparing him to Shane Savage? Completely different players

Savage is closer than Stewart or Sicily don’t you think

 

[ESPN8 The Ocho]

Imagine spending 5 x 900 on him and Port will want a 1st round pick. Crazy stuff

Bergman is a dime a dozen HBF

When there are multiple conditional statements (if this, if that, if the other thing) are being quoted in posts supporting the Bergman option, I think I counted seven in one post, that would indicate he is not the right fit.
Give me one or two arguments at most.
Otherwise, move on to another option.

 

[phantom13]

Ok well you can argue Burgoyne is a good kick but a terrible defender 1v1. Each player has their own strengths and weaknesses. Berg and Burg pretty much opposites of each other as defenders

And why are we suddenly comparing him to Shane Savage? Completely different players

Is Burgoyne terrible 1v1? Feels like a statement because he’s got a slight build but I don’t think it’s actually true.

 

[crasha301]

Because Bergman will cost draft picks I'd prefer to go for Maynard, a good replacement for Webster.

On CPH2145 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[stavro#4]

Savage is closer than Stewart or Sicily don’t you think

Shane savage 185cm 80kgs
James Sicily 189cm 90kgs
Tom Stewart 190cm 89kgs
Miles Bergman 189cm 84 kgs


Or maybe Which one on that list is probably lacking with a vertical leap or strong overhead?

 

[akaifu]

Savage is closer than Stewart or Sicily don’t you think

In terms of player type? Not at all imo

Quality obviously way off but Berg is only 24 this year. I don't think he'll ever be as good a kick as either of them but in the air and defensively he could be

As I said before, if he was the perfect player then 1 FRDP and 900k/year wouldn't be close to the price we would be paying

Either way, might not even matter if he plays midfield as a Rivers type

 

[akaifu]

Because Bergman will cost draft picks I'd prefer to go for Maynard, a good replacement for Webster.

On CPH2145 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Maynard 5 years older than Berg and wants a 5 year deal or something. Might as well keep Webster at that point

And I highly doubt Maynard would choose to leave Collingwood for St Kilda of all teams anyway

 

[Mowman]

let a really good defender go last year and chase an average one this year
Same people that were saying 900k was to much for Battle but happy to pay Bergman that and give up 1st rounder for him ?
Surely if we bring anyone in it’s a mid ?

 

[Mowman]

Maynard 5 years older than Berg and wants a 5 year deal or something. Might as well keep Webster at that point

And I highly doubt Maynard would choose to leave Collingwood for St Kilda of all teams anyway

Why do you want Bergman. ?

 

[akaifu]

let a really good defender go last year and chase an average one this year
Same people that were saying 900k was to much for Battle but happy to pay Bergman that and give up 1st rounder for him ?
Surely if bring anyone in it’s a mid ?

That's the thing. Bergman can be a mid and has played there in the past. Wasn't elite in there but given a pre-season in the guts he could become something. Worst case scenario he is a good best 22 defender

 

[phantom13]

That's the thing. Bergman can be a mid and has played there in the past. Wasn't elite in there but given a pre-season in the guts he could become something. Worst case scenario he is a good best 22 defender

So its Dow, Carroll or even Jones.

Nah, thanks. I’m good.

 

[Mowman]

That's the thing. Bergman can be a mid and has played there in the past. Wasn't elite in there but given a pre-season in the guts he could become something. Worst case scenario he is a good best 22 defender

When did he play there in the past ?

What a you prepared to give for him ?
1st rounder ?
Sharman and 2nd rounder

IMO he is the last thing we need

 

[The Punter]

Worst case scenario he is a good best 22 defender

They usually don't cost a first round draft pick though.

 

[HeavenlySources]

Bergman for a first rounder even a late one is enough to exit th deal

 

[akaifu]

Why do you want Bergman. ?

Because I think he's a significant upgrade on Webster

Younger
Bigger
Better in the air
Versatile - can literally play anywhere in defence/midfield
Just as tough
Solid kick when given the correct instructions/role

Out of ALL general defenders in 2024, Miles Bergman AVERAGES:

contested marks: 0.7 per game (third in comp behind Vlaustin Stewart)
contested 1v1 loss %: 28.6% vs Webster 46.2% vs Maynard 32%
intercept marks: 1.2 (this is lower than I thought but still equal with Rivers & Dale; more than Maynard Quaynor Hinge Wilmot/Idun as similar types; Webster 0.8; Vlaustin league leader at 2.5)

An underrated aspect is that his role at Port has been super volatile. One week he's playing kpp. The next he's playing lockdown medium. Then he's playing HBF. Then even gets put on a wing/mid

With a good coach like Ross who'll likely give him a stable role and a clear instruction on his kicking, I think it'll benefit him massively

When did he play there in the koipast ?

What a you prepared to give for him ?
1st rounder ?
Sharman and 2nd rounder

IMO he is the last thing we need

16% CBAs in round 1. Has had CBAs in the past couple of years too (albeit very very little) but showed he could compete in there

The fact that he could get CBAs at all ahead of the likes of Rozee/JHF/Drew/Wines (Butters injured) says a bit I reckon

 

[akaifu]

They usually don't cost a first round draft pick though.

That's why its the worst case. That's when we realise a loss on the deal

The upside is there is the possibility Bergman becomes an elite intercept defender or a very good midfielder...or both like Stewart. Not a guarantee, but a possibility. That's when we realise a gain on the deal

Connor Idun as a similar type just received an extension at GWS to 2032 albeit probably less than 900k/year. But he's not even elite in any stretch. These types of players are super valuable

 

[Mowman]

Because I think he's a significant upgrade on Webster

Younger
Bigger
Better in the air
Versatile - can literally play anywhere in defence/midfield
Just as tough
Solid kick when given the correct instructions/role

Out of ALL general defenders in 2024, Miles Bergman AVERAGES:

contested marks: 0.7 per game (third in comp behind Vlaustin Stewart)
contested 1v1 loss %: 28.6% vs Webster 46.2% vs Maynard 32%
intercept marks: 1.2 (this is lower than I thought but still equal with Rivers & Dale; more than Maynard Quaynor Hinge Wilmot as similar types; Webster 0.8; Vlaustin league leader at 2.5)

An underrated aspect is that his role at Port has been super volatile. One week he's playing kpp. The next he's playing lockdown medium. Then he's playing HBF. Then even gets put on a wing/mid

With a good coach like Ross who'll likely give him a stable role and a clear instruction on his kicking, I think it'll benefit him massively

16% CBAs in round 1. Has had CBAs in the past couple of years too (albeit very very little) but showed he could compete in there

The fact that he could get CBAs at all ahead of the likes of Rozee/JHF/Drew/Wines (Butters injured) says a bit I reckon

What are you prepared to give up for him ? Port won't let go for nothing

 

[stavro#4]

Bergman for a first rounder even a late one is enough to exit th deal

I’d prefer to take the opinions of fans when judging players a club is targeting.

Port fans don’t want to lose him. He is very highly rated by their fan base.

They watch him week to week and have since he came into the system.

It’s the same vein as Hawthorn supporters raising their noses at Battle 12 months ago and now holding their hands up saying - Hey, we didn’t pay enough attention to him. He is a good defender.

Even if it costs a first round pick the likelihood is that we ultimately upgraded a first round pick and placed it into a better calibre of draft.